Can We Get Serious About Cracking This Retipping Nut?

[Ondina]

Checking in really quick - I am thinking that wikipedia is not going to be a clearing house. I think that we can use it for boiled down information about what works and what does not, but I do not think that they are going to let us publish iterations of various experiments there.

 

I agree with badrsj - no one should own this information, and no one should control it. We can work that out.

 

One is not incompatible with the other. You can set up a working wiki and then, later on, publish conclusions/articles in Wikipedia.

 

Do you want retipping.blablabla.com? Nibelungs, or Metalchemy were my favorites, but, hey, whatever you suggest will be implemented.

[Ondina]

Are spark plugs made from iridium and rhodium?

 

At least, most of the ones used in airplanes are. Why?

[jmkeuning]

I am thinking of what industry, besides jewelry, has some of the skill, equipment, and experience that we need.

 

Further, I understand that tipping is not iridium, however, let's say that iridium is harder to work with... then I recall what Patches O'Houlihan said to Justin, "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball." Meaning, if we can work with some materials that are easier to get but harder to use then our end game, then maybe we practice on the cheap stuff, knowing that if we can melt/shape/weld iridium we can melt/shape/weld the platinum group metals which we finally acquire.

[eckiethump]

There is no element in pen repair/restoration that is beyond a reasonably talented artisan individual, it is in the interests of the galactica pen repair people to make it seem so.

Absolutely not. If it were indeed as you say, Ron Zorn, Jim Marshall, Laurence Oldfield, I, and others like us would publish no information on pen repair. Your "they think they're holier than us" assumption is insulting.

 

There is I do believe that gold nibs with tipping can be bought fairly reasonably from India and would be surprised if they had invested $25,000 in the equipment to do so.

I've worked with these nibs, and I'll be blunt. I would not buy a pen with one of them, and I most certainly would not sell them. I'm not even implying that I can do better -- I can't make nibs at all -- but the standard of craftsmanship on the Indian nibs you've mentioned is appallingly poor. They look awful, and they write poorly. (I know, everybody has different standards, and others might think the things write just fine.) Even when the Chinese were first getting into the world market, their nibs were orders of magnitude better than the Indian ones.

 

Aw bless, sorry mods, this is as far as my trolling will go.

Eric

[antonio ilmonaco]

Hello,

 

I believe tipping technology was available and reliable in the 20s, when electronics didn't even exist (the transistor was invented in 1948). Only vacuum tubes were available. The process for tipping gold nibs was probably quite simple.

I don't see any reason why it couldn't be achieved on a DIY basis using modern technology.

Besides, technology that is kept secret and said to be complicated is most of the time straightforward. When something's really complicated, people who benefit from it have no trouble telling about it. This is just my experience. No offense meant.

 

All the best,

Antonio

[MT4]

I guess that the nib making process is not very complicated, and I have started a thread (A LOT of time ago, in FPN) asking for this. It is not that I am going to make an industry on this, as I am not even re-saccing pens to other people (yet?), I was just curious about the whole process. Some gold nibs from the pre-1920s (specially the ones just marked "Warranted 14k") were made by artisans, not by automated industries. Even more: It would be nice to know the design process as well (again: Not to make a whole industry on this, just to satisfy my curiosity).

 

I'm a photographer too, and the same pattern applies for me (have bought lots of books on optics, design, camera repair, you name it) not because I was going to build any objective, but just to know a little bit more about the whole thing. Of course I don't think that people that have this "secret" have to share it with all of us (specially not for free) as it took them probably a lot of time and money to develop their techniques. Even if this is not the case, all industries are full of "secrets" worth zillions, so the owners are usually not happy to share them, and that is fair too.

 

All the above just to share with you my humble point of view.

 

Martin

[RLTodd]

Has everyone read, or familiar with the details from other sources, this back history of tipped pens?

 

http://www.kamakurapens.com/IridiumKiss.html

 

IMHO, an excellent article that summarizes the work of those who thought it could be done, and did it.

[jmkeuning]

Has everyone read, or familiar with the details from other sources, this back history of tipped pens?

 

http://www.kamakurapens.com/IridiumKiss.html

 

IMHO, an excellent article that summarizes the work of those who thought it could be done, and did it.

 

those words are beautiful.

[Ondina]

I need a volunteer to test the wiki, please PM me.

[Ondina]

The wiki is ready. Interested members, please PM James for details.

[rsilver000]

Braze on some platinum, slit it with a jewlers saw and shape with diamond files. Takes about 2 hours. I have been doing this mewthod for the last year. Will it last forever? Who knows. On the other hand I use these pens every day, 10-15 pages a day with very little wear, and none of the new tips have fallen off. I use hard pressure when I write. Would I do this with a valuable nib? No way. But on a 2nd or 3rd tier pen....absolutely. It is not worth spending $60-70 for a retip on a pen worth $20-30.

 

I have brought these pens to the CNY pen meetings and as anyone who attends will tell you, they write nice and you would be hard pressed to tell it wasn't done by one of the pros. From a cost standpoint, 2-3hrs to do a nib is not worth it. Except I'm not a pro and it's for my pens alone.

 

The learning curve is steep and it's easy to melt a nib or 2 at the beginning. If you are switchy, get your jeweler to do it for you, and cut the slit yourself. There are several sources for slitting saws both handheld and mill ready.

Rob

[rsilver000]

Ouch! Sorry for the spelling errors in the previous post.

Rob

[RLTodd]

Hello,

 

I believe tipping technology was available and reliable in the 20s, .......

 

From the kamakura site I believe around the 1840's is slightly more accurate....... As I understand it the origninal quest was to find a hard tipping for metal pens so writers like Jefferson wouldn't have to maintain a gaggle (herd) of geese. I have a theorey, free to anyone who wants to do the research :-), that geese for dinner started to die out in the States with the advent of the inexpensive metal pen (nib) and the later tipped pen (nib).

 

I agree with the post that states that the learning curve is steep. I would think it would be very steep for those who haven't had high school shop.

[MT4]

Just in order to add my 2 cents to this thread:

 

General considerations:

• This service seems to be unavailable locally (Buenos Aires). So this means lots of medium priced nibs going to trash (being sold as gold scrap).

What I wish to/can do:

• Spend a lot of time and some money learning how to do this (Yes: Richard would say I am a dreamer, and he is most probably right).
• Give my best try in low cost gear, even if this means working slowly and more uncomfortably than with more suitable one.
• Focus this as a hobby, or low workload job.

What I am not going to:

• Spend lots of money in gear.
• Going to learn this abroad.
• Focus this as a means of living.

Anyone can contribute with this?

 

Rgds.

 

Martin

[MT4]

Me again! Anyone around that knows how nibs were tipped in the early XX century? I know that some of them have uneven (not dead centered) slits, or tipping material ends up being corroded over (a lot of) time.

 

What was it? Jeweler's torch? Electric resistance? How slit was cut on those days?

 

TIA

 

Martin

[EricB]

Going out on a limb here, and I don't know if it would work, but you might try one of those 110V spot welders they sell to car restorers. I think it would be rather easy to adapt to use on a nib, and it welds via electrical resistance. Turn the heat down and experiment, as they're only about $160 or so: Spot Welder

 

I've used these on cars, but never on a fountain pen. I'd be too scared to try!

[jmkeuning]

That spot welder is a good start. I wonder if I can rent one locally? The other problem is that I need to get some platinum group metal scraps. I have the gold nibs available for destruction.

[badrsj]

Yes, I think over the past few discussions we've considered the resistance welding as the method of choice. However rather than "car welder" how about a jewelery welder - see this video here - maybe something of this order may work better

[badrsj]

However looking at the cost of the Orion welding system is a buzz kill - maybe some innovation is needed in product finding here - surely that little box is not worth 4000 plus bucks.

[badrsj]

Here is an example -