Baby Powder

[NORTON]

I'm sure you have all heard to use Talc when installing a new ink sac. Well, Talc hasn't been the easiest for me to find, so I was wondering about substituting baby powder. Has anyone had any experience with baby powder, good or bad?

 

Thanks,

 

Jason

[Chthulhu]

I have read that you need to avoid corn starch and scents, and probably aloe, which pretty much leaves out all the currently-available baby powders. Tryphon sells a container of pure talc for $1.50, and other pen repair suppliers likely do as well: http://www.tryphon.it/catalogo.htm about 2/3 down the page.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Don't you have a pool hall near you? Even some establishment with just a couple tables?

 

Usually they have a (pure)talc cone that sits in a wooden tray for the players to dust the insides of their fingers

with so the cue slides easier betwixt them. Cast off usually falls down around the bottom of it and I'm sure you could lift the whole cone off it's spindle and scrape some off the very bottom as they probably toss it when it gets down to the last 1/2" or so anyway. That would costs you nada. It's also pure talc.

 

I am going to toss in this last part but I really don't want to. I don't personally advise it. I myself don't want to get an Estie and *wonder* if baby powder has been used in it and if I am going to discover that in some messy way and I'd hate to think someone reads this and takes it as some kind of reccomendation. It isn't. It however, apparently IS true.

 

Pendemonium does not sell talc within their selection of pen repair supplies. I asked them why. I was told that THEY use and HAVE used baby powder for years with apparently no ill effects. At least it appears people haven't been sending pens back to them with early destroyed sacs. And, Pendemonium has done a sizeable number of resacs on Esties.

 

The fact remains that the good schtuff is just too easy to find and cheap (FREE). Why not use what is univerally recommended?

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[NORTON]

I guess I haven't looked hard enough for Talc. Baby powder was a tempting alternative because you don't have to order it or sneak it out of a pool hall.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Jason

[FarmBoy]

I guess I haven't looked hard enough for Talc. Baby powder was a tempting alternative because you don't have to order it or sneak it out of a pool hall.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Jason

Try www.tryphon.it You can get a lifetime supply for a few dollars along with all the other stuff you will need.

 

Todd

[rogerb]

Some of the more well-known restorers have previously said quite firmly that baby powder should NOT be used, because of the additives in it.

[gross]

I have been warned that baby powder or any powder other than pure talc should not be used. One old time fountain pen man told me that only a very little talc should be used. According to him, one should get a tiny amount of talc on the fingers and, after dusting all of it off that one could, then one applied it to the newly applied sac. He maintained that if you had the talc container in the same room with the pen being restored, you used too much talc.

 

Oil (of anything) and glycerine should never be applied to anything rubber. Remember what happened the rubber grommets if you put a little oil on the shift linkage on the steering column to make that car shift gears a bit easier (after you tried to try to teach your girlfriend to drive)? Same thing happens to the rubber sac.

 

In deference to the great people at Pendemonium, I will admit that I can be wrong. I mean, it has happened before . . . once or twice . . . a few times . . . this week.

 

"sneak it out of a pool hall" My friend, if you have to sneak anything out of a pool hall, then you are going to the wrong pool hall (this, of course, does not apply if it is your wife looking in the front glass and it is you that you are sneaking out of the back door).

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

"sneak it out of a pool hall" My friend, if you have to sneak anything out of a pool hall, then you are going to the wrong pool hall (this, of course, does not apply if it is your wife looking in the front glass and it is you that you are sneaking out of the back door).

 

Having read Grosses posts this morning, Gross,

 

<Sam Kennison in "Back to School">

 

I like the way you think...

 

</Sam Kennison in "Back to School">

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[ZeissIkon]

One alternative to talc that is (apparently) safe for the sac and may be available in locations where there are no pool halls (some Midwestern towns tried to outlaw the game fifty-sixty years ago and haven't rejoined the real world yet) is dry graphite lubricant, the kind that you blow into a lock through the keyway. This stuff is oil free, much slipperier than talc, no more prone to drawing water, but it's black instead of white, which puts some people off. I can't say for absolute certain that it won't eat your sacs, but it certainly won't do it quickly; it's been a couple months since I used it when I replaced the sac in my Wearever, and so far, so good (and if that sac fails in a couple years, I'll have another chance to cut the new one the correct length, instead of finding out after trimming and cementing the sac that the replacement J-bar wasn't fully seated).

[Chthulhu]

This discussion also has me wondering about the feasability of using our beloved 100% silicone grease for this purpose. We already know it's safe for rubber products and all the other materials from which our pens are made ...

[Richard]

This discussion also has me wondering about the feasability of using our beloved 100% silicone grease for this purpose.

No. It's a lubricant, but it's not approriate for use on sacs because it will attract dust -- which can and will enter the pen through the lever slot and will eventually gunk things up inside the pen. Talc is the ideal lubricant for sacs because it repels moisture, does not attract dust, and is slippery all the time. Graphite is a close second. I'm sorry, but there's no third-place finisher in this race. Baby powder contains cornstarch (hygroscopic, attracts moisture and will eventually cause steel pressure bars to rust in high humidity) and zinc oxide (abrasive, can damage the surface of a sac, leading to leaks).

 

The fact that J. Random Collector has been using baby powder for years does not mean he's doing things right. It's possible to play Russian roulette thousands of times and get a click every time. But eventually there will be a bang -- it might not happen to you, but someone is going to get nailed eventually. When you know what the right stuff is and why it's right, why would you deliberately do things wrong?

[ZeissIkon]

When you know what the right stuff is and why it's right, why would you deliberately do things wrong?

 

One reason I've heard over and over, in many contexts besides pens, is a (slightly paranoid) opinion that the experts have a vested interest in forcing the "little guy" to buy something he doesn't already have on hand or has to go out of his way to get. Never mind that the opinion they're railing against is often from someone who doesn't even sell the product being recommended (or anything vaguely like it, or in some cases any halfway related product); that just means (to this paranoid mindset) that they're covering up their vested interest.

 

The other common reason is the well known psychological principle that the less you know about something, the less aware you are that you're incompetent. To a guy who doesn't have the faintest clue, has never seen a rubber item destroyed by oil or watched cornstarch powder cake from the water it pulls out of the air, the insistence on using one or two very specific products seems like a bunch of hooey intended to "put down" the one who suggested an alternative, or to keep the one giving the advice in an elevated position that he doesn't actually deserve -- and until the inexperienced one gains enough experience to see that the experts were right after all, he'll continue to believe that he's really not that much less knowledgeable than someone who has been repairing pens for decades.

 

All of which to say, others will continue to insist their way is every bit as good until they see proof it ruined their own pen (and it'll never be their fault if/when it ruins someone else's pen).

[Richard]

One reason I've heard over and over, in many contexts besides pens, is a (slightly paranoid) opinion that the experts have a vested interest in forcing the "little guy" to buy something he doesn't already have on hand or has to go out of his way to get.

I'll address this point from my own perspective.

 

I have a vested interest in not destroying pens. I might someday be on the purchasing end of a deal involving one of J. Random Collector's pens, and I'd much prefer that the pen be in as good condition as possible. Every collector in the world has exactly the same vested interest in promulgating proper repair techniques.

 

I also have a "spiritual" interest, if you will, in that even if I'm never ever going to come within 12,000 miles of a given pen, I'd rather that said pen not be destroyed because it's a pen, a historical artifact, an object that means something to someone.

[Lloyd]

Not that I've ever tried it but would chalk for a blackboard work?

[Richard]

Not that I've ever tried it but would chalk for a blackboard work?

Chalk is hygroscopic and abrasive. You be the judge.

[Ray-Vigo]

The method for applying graphite is the same as for applying talc?

Edited September 21, 2009 by Ray-Vigo

[OcalaFlGuy]

Not that I've ever tried it but would chalk for a blackboard work?

Chalk is hygroscopic and abrasive. You be the judge.

 

The thing that befuddles the livin' bejeebers out of me is why some people absolutely INSIST on finding some alternative product when the recommended one is so cheap and easy to find. (If I read *one more* post saying to use clear fingernail polish <instead of shellac> on a pen I think me bleedin' head will explode...) There are probably few souls in the civilized world that don't live near someplace with billard tables where they could procure some pure talc for FREE just for the asking.

 

Down here in the South, we call it "fixin' sumpin' that ain't broke..."

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Lloyd]

Not that I've ever tried it but would chalk for a blackboard work?

Chalk is hygroscopic and abrasive. You be the judge.

 

The thing that befuddles the livin' bejeebers out of me is why some people absolutely INSIST on finding some alternative product when the recommended one is so cheap and easy to find. (If I read *one more* post saying to use clear fingernail polish <instead of shellac> on a pen I think me bleedin' head will explode...) There are probably few souls in the civilized world that don't live near someplace with billard tables where they could procure some pure talc for FREE just for the asking.

 

Down here in the South, we call it "fixin' sumpin' that ain't broke..."

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

I have never used chalk; I use 100% talc. I was just curious as to why it was inappropriate to use chalk. Thank you, Richard, for pointing out the obvious (though not immediately to me) reasons.

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

The thing that befuddles the livin' bejeebers out of me is why some people absolutely INSIST on finding some alternative product when the recommended one is so cheap and easy to find. (If I read *one more* post saying to use clear fingernail polish <instead of shellac> on a pen I think me bleedin' head will explode...) There are probably few souls in the civilized world that don't live near someplace with billard tables where they could procure some pure talc for FREE just for the asking.

 

Down here in the South, we call it "fixin' sumpin' that ain't broke..."

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

I have never used chalk; I use 100% talc. I was just curious as to why it was inappropriate to use chalk. Thank you, Richard, for pointing out the obvious (though not immediately to me) reasons.

 

And Lloyd, I didn't mean for it to appear that my reponse was even remotely related to your post.

 

Sorry if it looked like that.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[rdh]

FWIW, I went to my local drug store and asked for some pure talc. They offered to special order it for me. When it came in, though it was over 20 dollars. I followed Richard's advice and used graphite instead. It is odd that with the interest in natural products (both food and cosmetics) that pure talc wouldn't be more widely available...and cheaper. You'd think that the fragrance that is added to baby powder has got to be more expensive than talc and it could obviously cause rashes on sensitive skin.

 

Dave