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Read all about it. Diamine Registrars Ink.......


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35 replies to this topic

#21 HenryLouis

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 16:21

How dry is this ink?

Edited by HenryLouis, 10 August 2009 - 16:21.

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#22 Ada

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:10

From my experience, this is typical for iron gall inks.



Mine too. I have had good luck with Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Scabiosa as well as Diamine Registrar's Ink in Moleskines (although I should probably note that I only use F or XF nibs too).
I've been on a quest to see if I could commit all Seven Deadly Sins in a single day. Finally, it dawned on me I shouldn't try for the One Day Wonder Prize for all seven in one day. It's simply out of any question as you can't commit decent sloth while busily ticking the other six off your crowded "to do" list. -- ViolinWriter

#23 laplume

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 13:07

From my experience, this is typical for iron gall inks.


Iron gall based inks average behavior normally is excellent in any pen and paper I've tried.

+2 they've "only" been around since the Death Sea scrolls, for a good reason: is a fantastic ink.

#24 bardharlock

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 18:54

Doesn't iron gall ink "burn" paper?
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#25 JakobS

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 20:37

Doesn't iron gall ink "burn" paper?


Iron gall ink is acidic, but generally when we see it having eaten through ancient paper this is considered to be due to one of two things, either the ink itself was formulated poorly, or the paper was non archival, or acidic itself. With the majority of modern paper being acid free, and inks such as Diamine Registrar's, R&K's, and Montblanc,or Lamy's Blue Black being formulated correctly and at a less intense degree than iron gall inks of the past, these inks are going to last on paper for a good while. There are iron gall inks out there that are more intense and made for dip pens still, and I would imagine they would last awhile also on paper, but am not definite on this. The major concern these days is making sure to wash your fountain pens frequently with Iron Gall inks, though I tend to wash them as frequently as my other pens, about every month and have had little problem with the ink.

Henry, as far as this ink being drier than others, though others have mentioned it, I tend not to see this, it is quite a smooth ink in my Lamy Safari, and can be rather wet, the only time it really becomes dry is when my convertor is almost empty of ink. It can have very nice shading to it, and darkens to deep dark blue black.
FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!For Sale: TBA

#26 mstone

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 23:50

Iron gall ink is acidic, but generally when we see it having eaten through ancient paper this is considered to be due to one of two things, either the ink itself was formulated poorly, or the paper was non archival, or acidic itself. With the majority of modern paper being acid free, and inks such as Diamine Registrar's, R&K's, and Montblanc,or Lamy's Blue Black being formulated correctly and at a less intense degree than iron gall inks of the past, these inks are going to last on paper for a good while.

Using the "inks are different" argument cuts both ways, though--while it's true that old formulas of iron gall dipped by quills and written on dead animals lasted a long time, it's not obvious that differently-formulated fountain pen inks on paper will have identical longevity. Here's a test which showed R&K's Scabiosa to fade quite badly in sunlight (I was actually surprised to see how badly it did fade): http://www.fountainp...n...t&p=1140640

#27 JakobS

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:09

Iron gall ink is acidic, but generally when we see it having eaten through ancient paper this is considered to be due to one of two things, either the ink itself was formulated poorly, or the paper was non archival, or acidic itself. With the majority of modern paper being acid free, and inks such as Diamine Registrar's, R&K's, and Montblanc,or Lamy's Blue Black being formulated correctly and at a less intense degree than iron gall inks of the past, these inks are going to last on paper for a good while.

Using the "inks are different" argument cuts both ways, though--while it's true that old formulas of iron gall dipped by quills and written on dead animals lasted a long time, it's not obvious that differently-formulated fountain pen inks on paper will have identical longevity. Here's a test which showed R&K's Scabiosa to fade quite badly in sunlight (I was actually surprised to see how badly it did fade): http://www.fountainp...n...t&p=1140640


You do raise a great question in the fade test, and a question as far how strong of an iron gall ink is Scabiosa. The one thought that came to mind is the sun has a natural bleaching effect, and the resulting fade test is similar to what Diamine Registrar ink looks like when bleached. You see this when the sun causes hydrogen peroxide molecules to form that bleach hair, as you would see in California surfers, so I believe in this case this is a bleaching effect. Now storing documents in an archive or in caves out of the sunlight as many of the old documents have been, or even in a drawer, desk, or box, such as a marriage license would have this risk be lessened. As far as this bleaching effect being seen on animal skins or not, I would think it could still happen, as even with a stronger bond then on paper, I don't think it would change its ability to be bleached. I just did a test of a two or three day old diamine registrar's note, bleaching it with hydrogen peroxide, letting it sit, having it fade to its bleached brown color, and then soaking it in a intense stream of water, still waterproof, and readable, a nice golden brown in fact!

Edited by JakobS, 13 August 2009 - 01:40.

FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!For Sale: TBA

#28 Ondina

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:53

Doesn't iron gall ink "burn" paper?


Iron gall ink is acidic, but generally when we see it having eaten through ancient paper this is considered to be due to one of two things, either the ink itself was formulated poorly, or the paper was non archival, or acidic itself. With the majority of modern paper being acid free, and inks such as Diamine Registrar's, R&K's, and Montblanc,or Lamy's Blue Black being formulated correctly and at a less intense degree than iron gall inks of the past, these inks are going to last on paper for a good while. There are iron gall inks out there that are more intense and made for dip pens still, and I would imagine they would last awhile also on paper, but am not definite on this. The major concern these days is making sure to wash your fountain pens frequently with Iron Gall inks, though I tend to wash them as frequently as my other pens, about every month and have had little problem with the ink.


You're correct. Archivist affirm that from all the pool of iron gall written documents till the XXth century, a 25% has/will deteriorate due to poorly formulated ink, or to a combination of ink and acidic, sulfate paper. When you ask how long the 75% left will last the answer is "as long as the substrate (paper, parchement...) does".

#29 Mongo

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 19:15

The Registrar's ink on the E.S.S. site is not made by Diamine. An email asking that question to the site's contact address brought the quick reply that it's made by Trodat.

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#30 macthemaths

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 19:41

Ondina - hmmm, it's a bit like the general acceptance of the idea that MB and Lamy blue blacks are one and the same as well. I wonder about that, sometimes.

If I didn't have enough iron gall to see me out, I might buy more bottles and do a comprehensive test. I've looked in the comparative review index and can't see one, which given the forum's obsession with the stuff, is a bit odd! Have I missed it somewhere?

The index has some gaps & the search function is useless--so it may well be that there is a comparison, but nobody can find it. :-) http://www.rmimaging.../inks/inks.html suggests that the two inks are different, but googling is tough with search terms like "montblanc lamy blue black" so it's hard to find anything definitive.

I accept that the index needs some serious updating (it is on my to do soon list), but the search function is actually quite good, IMHO, and I found this very easily: http://www.fountainp...n...202&hl=lamy

HTH,
Chris

#31 Ondina

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 20:10

Just wondering what the evidence is that the ink from the www.registrarsink.co.uk is actually Diamine?
John

The only reference I can link you to are previous threads here at the forum.


encremental, Mongo has just replied to this question. He mailed the manufacturer and his reply was that is a different ink.

#32 Ondina

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 20:15

The Registrar's ink on the E.S.S. site is not made by Diamine. An email asking that question to the site's contact address brought the quick reply that it's made by Trodat.

-- Dave


Thank you, Mongo, this settles a question often raised here.
Trodat is an Austrian company based in Vienna. http://www.trodat.ne...US/001 Home.htm that specializes in ink products.

#33 mstone

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 22:16

but the search function is actually quite good, IMHO, and I found this very easily

You must have better luck than I do. :unsure: I always manage to get back 1000 results (the max) without relevance sorting.

#34 macthemaths

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:48

but the search function is actually quite good, IMHO, and I found this very easily

You must have better luck than I do. :unsure: I always manage to get back 1000 results (the max) without relevance sorting.


I did it by searching only the sub-forum I thought the info would be in (in this case the Scans, comparisons etc..). It perhaps wouldn't work so well in one of the busier areas of the Network. :thumbup:

Chris

#35 nickyd

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 15:17

This E.S.S. Registrar's ink goes on to paper (Rhodia note pad) as a quite pale blue. However,within minutes,it is totally transformed to a dense blue/black. I have checked the writing after one hour and cannot discern any further change.
I'll look again in 24 hours.

#36 nickyd

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 21:22

QUOTE (nickyd @ Aug 31 2009, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This E.S.S. Registrar's ink goes on to paper (Rhodia note pad) as a quite pale blue. However,within minutes,it is totally transformed to a dense blue/black. I have checked the writing after one hour and cannot discern any further change.
I'll look again in 24 hours.


Well,I've checked. After some thirty hours there does not appear to be any further darkening of the ink. Where I've used a broad nib with good ink flow the letters appear,to me, virtually black. My letters written with a Rotring Newton 600 (fine nib) appear to be a darkish blue/black. Thus the greater the amount of ink the darker it goes,it seems to me. hmm1.gif
(From the posts re the Diamine Registrar's Ink,this rapid colour change is to be expected--I'm not sure why).







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