How much respect for "Last and Final Price" ads?

August 3, 2009

I've seen a number of FS threads over the past 6 months where the seller lists a pen at price X, then repeatedly says LAST PRICE or I WILL GO NO LOWER or LAST PRICE UNTIL EBAY or FINAL PRICE. Then a few days/weeks later, there's a new, lower price!! What gives?

How much respect does one give to such sales? For me, I feel somewhat dirty answering these ads and tend to ignore them. I want to post a response that says: "What a jerk!" or "Why would you lie to us?". But then I reconsider and just let it go.

I negotiate deals for living and I have a hard time dealing with potential partners who bluff too much. It's insulting.

Any comments?

Skip

August 3, 2009

It happens. I am usually amused when I see that verbiage and duly wait to see what the next reduction brings.

If it annoys you, don't buy from those sellers.

I think it is a combination of not knowing the market, greed and desperation to sell. Either way, it doesn't bother me.

August 3, 2009

When I'm interested in a pen I tend to look at the market and see what range/condition are usual for the pen at a price I'm willing to pay. Then, if a pen appears at a bargain price, I pounce. Or, if a pen appears in exceptional condition for the price I'm willing to pay, I buy. I don't buy because someone else says it's a price that's fixed.

August 3, 2009

There is one poster who has spanned about 9 months here with a particularly entertaining monologue about "LAST PRICE EVER!!!", then proceeded to list a high price for a less desirable pen. Duly noted, clever poster, duly noted.

August 3, 2009

Skip

Hey Skip,

Long time no hear. I have been guilty of the "Last post before ebay" headline myself. Guess that makes me the idiot you may be discussing here. But I did move the pen in question eventually over to eBay beyond that sales post on FPN classified. If one of my pens gets down in price to where I will not go lower. I simply pull the pen off the sales board and let the post dwindle away in FPN limbo. I may relist the pen later on or just hang onto it for awhile. What amazes me is how many times I've gotten emails and PM's from people wanting to buy pens I had listed for sale over a year or 6 months ago. They must have been searching the for sale archives for a certain pen and came across my old sales post. Where were these fine buyers when the pen was freshly listed. Guess they weren't looking at the time. It is a matter of timing more than ever for pen sales and buyers are understandably persnickety on how they'll spend their hard earned dough these days.

I guess some folks are desperate to sale and just don't quite know how to price their pens at the start, and then desperation prods them to lower the price but maybe not their sales post heading and hence some of the lowest or final reduction notices you've come across. I actually feel sorry for some of them, they do indeed seem desperate or very needy and I hope they do eventually sell. Then as you say there are those who start at a very optimistically shall we say price and then re-post time after time at the same price or reduce it by a few dollars per post and still can't sell.

Along the same lines I have posted stuff for what I consider to be a reasonable starting price and then received an insulting low ball offer from someone. In those cases I have just ignored or politely declined the low ball offer. In a couple of instances someone has had the gall to actually inform me in no uncertain terms that my dreary pen for sale is actually rather plain and unremarkable and they'll do me the favor for taking it off my pitiful hands for a small sum just cause they feel sorry for me. You wil find all types here as in any popular online forum.

Overall FPN has been the source for most of my pen sales and that's one reason I hang out here, plus all the nice and helpful people I've met along the way.

Cheers!

Carl Kibler

Edited August 4, 2009 by cakibler

August 3, 2009

There are a few regular sellers here who use the "this price will not be lowered further" language who actually do stick to their final price and withdraw the pen if it doesn't sell. I have a lot of respect for those few.

August 6, 2009

I've used this language myself and try to stick to it.... the trouble is the last 6-9 months appears to have seen a pretty dramatic drop in prices... particularly modern Watermans. I thought I had a good handle on prices, but the market is telling me something different..... and in the end, desperation made me bite the bullet and drop again.

I'd also echo cakibler's comments... there are a few folk who offer insulting prices... the wording is partly aimed to stop their PMs.

In the end... if you don't like it.... move on.

August 6, 2009

I've used this language myself and try to stick to it.... the trouble is the last 6-9 months appears to have seen a pretty dramatic drop in prices... particularly modern Watermans.

That is puzzling because I understood that the Sanford current marketing strategy is to use Parker for the medium-low price range and Waterman for the high range (thus the discontinuation of the Phileas). Something must not working in this marketing strategy...

Others drop in prices have been in companies that are currently in bad waters like Conklin and Montegrappa.

Best,

August 6, 2009

What you could do is PM the price that you would like to the seller and then, if he/she does consider a lower price, you're first in line.

If not, move on.

August 6, 2009

Hello Skip!

I'm a Ebay seller nickname: stubnib) and I would say that I 100% agree with your post and I too believe that such kind of titles are false and boring.

However I'm pretty disappointed how much people still arrive to visit auctions that have in the title words as "close out offer"... :hmm1:

Again I don't use them usually but in these days of August vacation and very low selling I have made a trial and in dispite of my rule I have put such words in the title... and in the first 3 auction days I got 3 time more visit... What I could say... may be these visits will not became a selling since they are from not valued customers... however I have to admit that there are around people that only uderstand such kind of words and I feel my self stupid when I waste my time trying to make a honest serious title that describe in few words the right pen features when a so big percentage of people only read and understand shouted words as these....

On the other side I have to say that often there are people around that submit insulting we seller with "best offer" at 10% -15% of the pen cost in despite there is wrote the pen value in the buy it now price... While I agree that sellers insulting buyers using such title I feel myself insulted when so many buyers waste my time submitting useless offers... I put both them on the same "poor" level.

Regards from Italy

Maurizio

August 12, 2009

Carl,

Thanks for the comments. I actually don't remember which FS post or posts prompted me to start this thread, so don't feel that you're the target. I've seen this for years and it's always bugged me.

I understand that many people start their pricing too high, but optimistically. I've done that myself. I also agree that failed sales can come back to fruition many months later as people search the archives. We've all had items languish on the FS board when we knew that there was a buyer out there. And the tactic of issuing an ultimatum or bluff is a useful negotiating tactic, if a bit disingenuous.

I guess that the biggest pet peeve that I have is those sellers who emphatically say "I will go no lower!", or "Last price reduction before Ebay!". Then repost a few days later with a lower price. As in business, I find it insulting that someone would effectively, LIE about their intentions. If the poster came back with something like: "I really need to sell this pen and it's not moving at what I thought was my lowest price", I guess the humbleness would sit better with me. I'm sure I'm being over-sensitive.

I'll recount one completely unrelated incident about 15 years ago when we were having problems with water in our basement and were talking to waterproofing companies about installation of a french drain system. This is a messy job, but it had to be done. We had one company come in and they gave us a price of $8,000, IIRR. Then when I said that I would get back to them after I had gotten other estimates, they immediately said that they'd do it for $4,000. "What!? You mean that you would have happily made $4,000 more profit just because you were the first bidder? Get out of here!" I was so mad that that company was always on my s**t list and I told anyone who ever asked.

We had another similar incident with house painting last year. Got a bid for $25,000 for inside/outside painting of our house from a painter that we had used before. I then got another bid from someone else who had also done work for us for $17,000, recommended by our interior designer. We told the first bidder that the second price was a LOT lower. He said he'd meet it, but my wife and I decided that we didn't want to use him. I didn't like the idea that his price came down so quickly. I expected that he would try to make up the difference on us with extras on unexpected work. The second guy did a lot of extra work and we ended up paying more than $25k, but that was for a whole bunch of additional work. And the contractor who did our work was grateful and will get our recommendation for any references.

Skip

August 13, 2009

I've done it myself a few times. Why? Because I later changed my mind because I wanted to sell the pen and/or needed the money. I'm not one to overprice a pen initially, and the market now, quite frankly, sux. I think it's pretty strong to say you're "effectively lying" if you change your mind. If there are regular, PROFESSIONAL sellers who routinely use some variation of a pressure tactic by overpricing pens and then gradually lowering the prices while threatening to go no lower or move it to Ebay, that's one thing, however, I read the third paragraph of your last post to apply to anyone who changes his or her mind after stating the price is final. If that's not what you mean, you might want to edit that post.

P.S. I also negotiate deals for a living, but I don't see how posting a for sale ad constitutes "negotiation" -- you need an interested buyer to interact with you for that.

Edited August 13, 2009 by offbase

August 13, 2009

To me, those admonitions say, "I don't think it's likely people think this is a good price, but maybe if I make them think it won't get better, or will be taken off the market they will bite anyway." As a buyer, that makes me expect whatever's posted to be less desirable than I'd expect without such a warning.

My pet peeve is people who try to bicker with the seller over price in the comments. I'm not perfect, sometimes I miss changes in the market and list something higher than the market will bear. The bickering thing happened to me once, and ironcially, more than one someone PMed me offering the price I asked for... it seemed the person who started the argument was hoping to artificially drive the price down for him/her-self.

On the other hand, on another sale of mine, someone PMed me privately, offering a lower price he was willing to pay. It sounded good to me, so I took it. The no-drama approach is always better.

--Susan