Were Fountain Pens ever more popular then ball points

[cfclark]

I think ball point pens were developed during WW2, so that aircraft navigators could make notes in leaky planes and still have readable script when they returned.

 

This reminds me of the old story about NASA spending large sums of money developing a pen that could write in zero gravity, while the Soviets just used a pencil. Why wouldn't aircraft navigators just use a pencil? (Notwithstanding Richard's clarification of the patent history of the ballpoint.)

[HenryLouis]

I think ball point pens were developed during WW2, so that aircraft navigators could make notes in leaky planes and still have readable script when they returned.

 

This reminds me of the old story about NASA spending large sums of money developing a pen that could write in zero gravity, while the Soviets just used a pencil. Why wouldn't aircraft navigators just use a pencil? (Notwithstanding Richard's clarification of the patent history of the ballpoint.)

 

'tis just a myth. The NASA story.

[meiers]

pencils in zero gravity are a bad idea...

how would you like having pencil shavings float around and breathing them in?

 

Matt

[HenryLouis]

pencils in zero gravity are a bad idea...

how would you like having pencil shavings float around and breathing them in?

 

Matt

 

I'd think they'd use mechanical pencils... But the granite leads would still be a problem.

[jzmtl]

When I went to school in China in late 80's and early 90's, fountain pen was the norm everywhere, and use of ball point by students were strongly discouraged, but I don't think that's the case anymore. Later when I went to school in u.s. it was BP everywhere, I don't even know where to get FP or ink.

 

Now I'm "rediscovering" fountain pens, if you will.

Edited June 25, 2009 by jzmtl

[Silvermink]

When I was growing up ball points sucked.

 

Nowadays they just suck a little less.

 

[Gehaha]

Hello,

 

when I was a child in the 60ies and wrote letters to my grandparents,

I was told, it's not polite to write with ballpoint or pencil.

 

Having "good writing manners" meant to use a fountain pen.

If there was some smearing, which is easy to produce for a child,

I had to start again.

 

You can imagine, that I didn't write too often...

 

Best,

Anna

 

P.S. Even today, when smearing or correcting something in a letter, I feel a bit "guilty"...or less polite :embarrassed_smile:

[meiers]

pencils in zero gravity are a bad idea...

how would you like having pencil shavings float around and breathing them in?

 

Matt

 

I'd think they'd use mechanical pencils... But the granite leads would still be a problem.

 

 

all right... you will have little pieces of graphite floating around... does that sound better? (I wasn't being entirely serious in my previous post.)

 

Matt

Edited June 25, 2009 by meiers

[meiers]

Hello,

 

when I was a child in the 60ies and wrote letters to my grandparents,

I was told, it's not polite to write with ballpoint or pencil.

 

Having "good writing manners" meant to use a fountain pen.

If there was some smearing, which is easy to produce for a child,

I had to start again.

 

You can imagine, that I didn't write too often...

 

Best,

Anna

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Anna...

 

your post is bringing back memories of my childhood in Bonn ( in the 1960's).

I didn't start using a ball point pen until I was twelve years old... under the disapproving eyes of my teachers.

 

Did you recognize my Avatar (Drachenfels)?

 

Matthias.

Edited June 25, 2009 by meiers

[Gehaha]

Hello,

 

when I was a child in the 60ies and wrote letters to my grandparents,

I was told, it's not polite to write with ballpoint or pencil.

 

Having "good writing manners" meant to use a fountain pen.

If there was some smearing, which is easy to produce for a child,

I had to start again.

 

You can imagine, that I didn't write too often...

 

Best,

Anna

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Anna...

 

your post is bringing back memories of my childhood in Bonn ( in the 1960's).

I didn't start using a ball point pen until I was twelve years old... under the disapproving eyes of my teachers.

 

Did you recognize my Avatar (Drachenfels)?

 

Matthias.

 

Hello Matthias,

 

how nice to meet you here!

Are you an exiled german in the germans land of their dreams?

Do you know the old movie with Hans Albers "Wasser für Manitoba"?

Once in my life I will come to Canada and Alaska.

My ongoing pen purchases are eating up my put aside money

Now I can see the "Drachenfels". I love Bonn, it's such a lovely city: I will never relate to

Berlin, as I did relate to our humble capitol city BONN. It was the "better" republic: small was beautiful.

 

Ganz liebe Grüße nach Kanada,

Anna

 

[Richard]

...and that they were used by RAF aircraft crew during WW2

The Wikipedia article does not cite a source for its statement about RAF use.The statement may be true, but it cannot be trusted. (Wikipedia is a good place to start your research, but it is not an authoritative source because anyone, even I, can edit entries.)

 

In support of my discounting the article's reliability, I'll point out that numerous sources on the Web claim that the Morrison Patriot was made by a Japanese company specifically to comply with U.S. military requirements. This statement contains two untruths: (1) Morrison was not a Japanese company, and (2) the pen does not comply with military requirements. (See my article on military clips.)

[Vintagepens]

I believe it is true that the RAF placed the first large order for the original Biro Eterpen. Whether they were received in time for use during WW2, I am less certain.

 

The Luftwaffe definitely used pencils during WW2; I had an example several years back.

[meiers]

Hello,

 

when I was a child in the 60ies and wrote letters to my grandparents,

I was told, it's not polite to write with ballpoint or pencil.

 

Having "good writing manners" meant to use a fountain pen.

If there was some smearing, which is easy to produce for a child,

I had to start again.

 

You can imagine, that I didn't write too often...

 

Best,

Anna

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Anna...

 

your post is bringing back memories of my childhood in Bonn ( in the 1960's).

I didn't start using a ball point pen until I was twelve years old... under the disapproving eyes of my teachers.

 

Did you recognize my Avatar (Drachenfels)?

 

Matthias.

 

Hello Matthias,

 

how nice to meet you here!

Are you an exiled german in the germans land of their dreams?

Do you know the old movie with Hans Albers "Wasser für Manitoba"?

Once in my life I will come to Canada and Alaska.

My ongoing pen purchases are eating up my put aside money

Now I can see the "Drachenfels". I love Bonn, it's such a lovely city: I will never relate to

Berlin, as I did relate to our humble capitol city BONN. It was the "better" republic: small was beautiful.

 

Ganz liebe Grüße nach Kanada,

Anna

 

 

 

Ich moechte auch mal wieder nach Deutschland, kaufe aber zu viele Montblanc Fueller und Kugelschreiber.

 

Ich bin als vierzehnjaehriger hier nach Kanada (von meiner Mutter) verschleppt worden. Das war im Jahr 1975. Inzwischen habe ich mich hier sehr gut eingelebt und bin Englisch Lehrer an einer High School.

 

Manitoba ist sehr schoen.

 

Den Hans Albers Film kenne ich nicht... hoert sich aber interessant an. Wir haben hier viel Wasser ... sogar manchmal auch Fluten, wenn der Red River ueber die Ufer steigt.

 

Schreib mir wenn du moechtest.

 

Matthias

Edited June 26, 2009 by meiers

[Neill78]

all right... you will have little pieces of graphite floating around... does that sound better? (I wasn't being entirely serious in my previous post.)

 

Matt

 

And that could potentially cause a lot of problems on a spacecraft since graphite is conductive..

 

Neill

[meiers]

all right... you will have little pieces of graphite floating around... does that sound better? (I wasn't being entirely serious in my previous post.)

 

Matt

 

And that could potentially cause a lot of problems on a spacecraft since graphite is conductive..

 

Neill

 

Good point. I hadn't thought about that at all.

Matt

[DJJM19951998]

Just a little curious. i have heard they once were, but I think that kind of goes againest logic because FP's are more expensive

I don't believe fountain pens were always more expensive. The first big, successful sale of ballpoints took place in 1946, (decades after the first patent for a rollerball-type pen was taken out). Those ballpoints cost $12.50, which was pretty expensive for a pen in 1946. I think you could get decent fountain pens for less than that. The early ballpoint pens weren't that great, either. They leaked and smeared. I get the feeling they were more of a novelty item at first.

You could have bought a Duofold or Vacumatic at the time for $12 I believe, or $12,50

[heretic]

The first biros were considered unacceptable for signing cheques due to the early ink being able to be remove from a signature bloc on a cheque. It wasn't until Biro managed to invent a suitable ballpoint ink that the banks reversed their policy of requiring cheques to be signed with fountain pen ink. However, there are documents of state and other highly secure documents where specially made inks containing DNA markers of the user are used. I believe each US President has such ink made for them.

David

[alasdairforrest]

In the US in the 50's and early 60's Fountain pens were required where I went to school - ball points were not to trusted.

 

I went to a very odd, remarkably reactionary primary school from 1993-2000, where we wore short trousers except in December and January, had caps, and wore sandals indoors. Our textbooks were from the 1950s, and there was one point when we had to give a collective noun to leave class. I still know that minstrels come in troupes, owls come in parliaments, and apes come in congresses!

 

We had to carry briefcases from the age of 8, and in our briefcase we had to have a fountain pen. From 9 or 10 years old, it really was compulsory. Now that was a very unusual school - Scotland's oddest, and it has sadly now moderated - but mandatory fountain pen use obviously still is enforced in some places.

[garnet]

QUOTE (HenryLouis @ Jun 21 2009, 09:40 PM) QUOTE (dpmahon @ Jun 21 2009, 10:35 PM) QUOTE (HenryLouis @ Jun 21 2009, 09:08 PM) QUOTE (dpmahon @ Jun 21 2009, 10:05 PM) QUOTE (hamadryad11 @ Jun 21 2009, 07:47 PM) QUOTE (fountainpenguy @ Jun 21 2009, 08:29 PM) Just a little curious. i have heard they once were, but I think that kind of goes againest logic because FP's are more expensive

I don't believe fountain pens were always more expensive. The first big, successful sale of ballpoints took place in 1946, (decades after the first patent for a rollerball-type pen was taken out). Those ballpoints cost $12.50, which was pretty expensive for a pen in 1946. I think you could get decent fountain pens for less than that. The early ballpoint pens weren't that great, either. They leaked and smeared. I get the feeling they were more of a novelty item at first.

 

Dip pens were the cheep pens in the days of the fountain pen; the throw away pens of the day.

 

 

But don't you throw out the nibs on dip pens?

 

If any part of the dip pen was damaged, or if the pen was lost, point and or pen were cheep to replace. This is why they were used in schools.

 

 

Ah, well if you want to go back far... what about when Quill pens were more economical than steel dip pens? Since they were free off of a bird and easy to replace since there were so many feathers on a single bird.

 

By jove, I think you got it!

 

Swan, goose and crow feathers were the pens of chioce. To say they were free may be true. but when did you last take a feather from a swan or goose or even be able to get hold of a crow? They don't give their feathers away and not any feather would do. I'd rather use a pencil than fight a swan or goose for its feathers.

Take a feather right off a bird and try to write with it and it's useless. The feathers used for pens were supplied by pen makers. and had to be processed for use as pens, hardened etc. Therefore they would have incurred a cost.

[nxn96]

I think there was more demand for a well-functioning ballpoint at a reasonable price long before such a pen was actually put on the market. Worth considering is that most early ballpoints were pretty unreliable and often expensive; whereas fountain pens from the late 1940's/early 1950's were probably amongst the most reliable pens ever produced (think Parker "51" Aero and Sheaffer Snorkel). Therefore, while ballpoints were sold in great quantity from the get-go, many early purchasers were not happy with their purchases. If a million early ballpoints were sold, but most of them ended up being put aside in favor of a more trustworthy fountain pen purchased earlier, which was the more "popular" pen?

 

I would argue that the Parker Jotter was a "game changer" in terms of quality, reliability and cost of a ballpoint; but the Jotter was one of the late entries in the ballpoint market, being introduced in 1954. Even then, it was probably a good 10-12 years or so before the thought of using a fountain pen as opposed to a ballpoint was considered "quaint" or "archaic"