Dramatic price increase on CS bespoke pens

[dandelion]

As discussed in the thread of QM2s excellent review on her classic black bespoke Dandy, the prices on bespoke CS (Dandy, Duro, Dinkie, 58) seem to have increased dramatically. Is there anyone who knows why? Does this mean that CS will begin to phase out these bespoke pens?

 

Personally I feel sad about not being able to order another bespoke pen within a foreseeable future. I went for a Duro during the spring campaign since they were offered with FI nibs and the Dandies were not, but I had in my mind to order a bespoke Dandy later this year (as my graduation present to myself) but with such a big price increase I'll settle for another pen. I'm still very happy and eagerly waiting for my Duro - of course - but feel a bit anxious about this development.

[Deirdre]

I'm sad about it too.

 

I haven't used a Duro, but the other three are my favorite pens from CS. The current regular (non-LE and non-sterling) models are large and ungainly for my taste. The 100 is ever so slightly too large for me (which means the Duro will be as well), and I'd buy Dandy pens over any of the rest of the regular line (preferring lever fillers).

 

Obviously a Dinkie isn't the most practical for long writing sessions, but I love that I can keep a pad and pair of pens in a jacket pocket.

[QM2]

What can I say; I find the situation disappointing. The Duro, Dandy and Dinkie are the three classic models that were at the very core of the original company. I sincerely hope that Conway Stewart remembers this.

 

 

[Kca]

Wow,

 

I thought the spring special was just a temporary short term deal that happened to be limited to standard selections. I had no idea the regular bespoke prices were going to increase so dramatically. My plan was to order another bespoke pen with the options I wanted in a few months after the sale. At the current prices I will never order one of the bespoke pens and will stick to finding vintage models that cost a fraction of the price or alternatively ordering a current run model. Guess I'll never get the silver trim lever fill Dandy I was going to order.

 

I think this is a huge mistake unless they are trying to totally do away with their bespoke line. I would never pay over $800 for a Duro unless it was Sterling and it's my favorite Conway model.

 

I don't get it. Maybe they want more focus on their current line up and special editions but I think it's a real shame.

 

Huge disappointment!

 

Cheers,

 

Casey

[Rufus]

I think CS also increased the prices of their standard production models in the last 9-12 months; I seem to remember the increase being about US$100. Now this, and it's especially egregious because the bespoke models are at the heart of the CS tradition. The two words that come to me in both cases are "overreaching" and "gouging". Let's see how "price inelastic" demand is.

[Chris Chalmers]

It could have something to do with the poor old British Pound..........it is very weak at the moment - England is taking a hammering during this financial crisis! Just my tuppenceworth of course!

[Deirdre]

I can understand that the British pound is taking a beating, and that would affect raw material prices as well as things bought elsewhere such as nibs.

 

However, the bulk of the cost of a CS pen is things done within the UK at UK prices. For £100 (say) worth of things, when the £ exchange has dropped from $195 to $140 (say), then the price of £100 worth of pen should drop by 25% in the US, not double in price in the US.

[Carrie]

Personally I was very disappointed when the 58, Dandy and Dinkie were removed from the standard CS line up a few years ago to become bespoke pens. I did consider a bespoke Dandy a few years back, but I was put off by the price and in the end I got lucky and came across a Spanish EBay seller who at the time had new dinkies and an ebonite Dandy on sale. I have ordered a 58 under the recent offer because of the price. Much as I like the pen, I wouldn't consider paying more for it.

 

The sad thing is that I don't even expect CS to add a new pen to their line up that I'm going to like. Their current heavier pens and metal sections are of no interest to me, even if I acknowledge that some of them are impressive to look at.

 

 

[twdpens]

The recent price increase for the Bespoke Service (ie the one that we have displayed on our website for the last 3 weeks or so) is nothing to do with exchange rates or the current economic climate.

 

I don't know how many of you work (or have worked) in manufacturing but if you do you will know that making anything that is in any way different from the standard catalogue of products is time consuming and hence very expensive. I can therefore fully understand Conway Stewart's stance on this and told them so when first informed of the increase. How many other pen manufacturers do you know that will produce a custom one-off pen?

 

We too were disappointed when the 58 and Dandy were discontinued and have told CS the same on many occasions but thankfully they were still available through the bespoke service, albeit at a slightly higher price than when they were catalogue models. The recent offer gave customers one last chance to get one of these models at a very reasonable price and helped Conway Stewart clear some otherwise redundant parts and materials. We couldn't give away much at the time but we told recipients of our e-newsletter "We will add more details on this new [bespoke] policy when it is officially announced but we advise anyone thinking about buying a 58, Dandy or Duro fountain pen to take advantage of this offer."

 

Finally, Conway Stewart has increased its prices a little in the last year as all manufacturers have. Don't go by those on the official website.

 

HTH,

 

Martin

[robeck]

I have to say I have been disappointed with CS's pricing strategy for some time. I have long wanted either the CS100 or a Nelson but the price just put me off. In the end I just couldn't justify it and went with a competely different manufacturer - the Pelikan M1000. It's my second choice but at least I have it in my grubby mitts now - for almost half the cost of a CS.

 

If CS offered pens in the £100 to £200 price range I'd be tempted but for now they're just a dream. I guess that amount of money doesn't appeal to CS.

 

Oh well.

 

Dean

[QM2]

I don't know how many of you work (or have worked) in manufacturing but if you do you will know that making anything that is in any way different from the standard catalogue of products is time consuming and hence very expensive. I can therefore fully understand Conway Stewart's stance on this and told them so when first informed of the increase.

I agree that bespoke pens are more difficult and time consuming to make than pens mass-produced in enormous batches. However, my understanding of CS production methods, is that such a distinction does not really exist for them. They make all of their pens either in very small batches or one at a time. Due to the large range of colours, choice of filler and choice of trim they offer, it simply would not make sense to mass-produce thousands of each pen. So, if I were to order a Churchill, in brown swirl, with a lever filler and sterling trim, chances are that I would in fact have to wait 4 weeks +, because they would then go ahead and make this pen just for me. This is lovely, and I am by no means criticising CS for such production methods. This means that all the pens they make are special. But it also means, that the "bespoke" models are not significantly more special than the others. In fact, the only difference I can see really, is that you have additional colours to choose from when ordering bespoke. Therefore, in the specific case of CS, I do not believe the "bespoke" argument is appropriate.

 

 

How many other pen manufacturers do you know that will produce a custom one-off pen?

Nakaya hand-makes their pens out of ebonite. Famed artisans hand-paint the pens with a complex system of urushi lacquers and precious metal pigments. Each pen is produced for a specific customer, according to their preferences. It takes hours and hours of labor. These are considered very expensive pens, collector' items, one of a kind pieces of art. Prices start in the $400s. It is similar with Danitrio pens.

Edited May 9, 2009 by QM2

[twdpens]

I agree that bespoke pens are more difficult and time consuming to make than pens mass-produced in enormous batches. However, my understanding of CS production methods, is that such a distinction does not really exist for them. They make all of their pens either in very small batches or one at a time. Due to the large range of colours, choice of filler and choice of trim they offer, it simply would not make sense to mass-produce thousands of each pen.

 

Correct. But the actual making of the parts is only one element of manufacturing. There are additional overheads in terms of production scheduling, accounts, sales etc. Plus, there will be direct setup costs associated with making the parts for the particular bespoke pen which will cannot amortised over several units.

 

So, if I were to order a Churchill, in brown swirl, with a lever filler and sterling trim, chances are that I would in fact have to wait 4 weeks +, because they would then go ahead and make this pen just for me. This is lovely, and I am by no means criticising CS for such production methods. This means that all the pens they make are special.

 

Delivery time for "catalogue" Conway Stewart pens is typically 7-10 days, often less. Silver trim is a standard option and doesn't normally add much to the lead time.

 

But it also means, that the "bespoke" models are not significantly more special than the others. In fact, the only difference I can see really, is that you have additional colours to choose from when ordering bespoke. Therefore, in the specific case of CS, I do not believe the "bespoke" argument is appropriate.

 

With all due respect, I think that's up to Conway Stewart to decide .

 

Nakaya hand-makes their pens out of ebonite. Famed artisans hand-paint the pens with a complex system of urushi lacquers and precious metal pigments. Each pen is produced for a specific customer, according to their preferences. It takes hours and hours of labor. These are considered very expensive pens, collector' items, one of a kind pieces of art. Prices start in the $400s. It is similar with Danitrio pens.

 

I wasn't suggesting that Conway Stewart is the only maker of one-off pens, it's just that there are not many. Also, Conway Stewart hasn't stopped making one-offs it's just that as a company they have reached the decision that they cannot (or will not) do it for the price they were previously charging. That's a business decision and I for one as a Conway Stewart dealer of some 9 years stand by fully. Not everyone will agree of course but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

[Titivillus]

The recent price increase for the Bespoke Service (ie the one that we have displayed on our website for the last 3 weeks or so) is nothing to do with exchange rates or the current economic climate.

 

I don't know how many of you work (or have worked) in manufacturing but if you do you will know that making anything that is in any way different from the standard catalogue of products is time consuming and hence very expensive. I can therefore fully understand Conway Stewart's stance on this and told them so when first informed of the increase. How many other pen manufacturers do you know that will produce a custom one-off pen?

 

But are not the one-offs just a choice from standard items available?

[Titivillus]

I wasn't suggesting that Conway Stewart is the only maker of one-off pens, it's just that there are not many. Also, Conway Stewart hasn't stopped making one-offs it's just that as a company they have reached the decision that they cannot (or will not) do it for the price they were previously charging. That's a business decision and I for one as a Conway Stewart dealer of some 9 years stand by fully. Not everyone will agree of course but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

 

Yes and if CS's choice is to price themselves out of a market it is their decision and theirs alone.

 

I suggest people look to Stipula, Visconti, Aurora & Marlen for interesting materials for pens ( or get a few vintage pens of CS ilk).

 

Rather then complain about a pricing structure ( which is just going to be talk or type) do the one thing that every buyer can and that is to walk away smiling and never purchase from that company again. That might make the sellers take notice as the pens collect dust rather than interest.

 

K

[QM2]

I agree that bespoke pens are more difficult and time consuming to make than pens mass-produced in enormous batches. However, my understanding of CS production methods, is that such a distinction does not really exist for them. They make all of their pens either in very small batches or one at a time. Due to the large range of colours, choice of filler and choice of trim they offer, it simply would not make sense to mass-produce thousands of each pen. So, if I were to order a Churchill, in brown swirl, with a lever filler and sterling trim, chances are that I would in fact have to wait 4 weeks +, because they would then go ahead and make this pen just for me. This is lovely, and I am by no means criticising CS for such production methods. This means that all the pens they make are special. But it also means, that the "bespoke" models are not significantly more special than the others. In fact, the only difference I can see really, is that you have additional colours to choose from when ordering bespoke. Therefore, in the specific case of CS, I do not believe the "bespoke" argument is appropriate.

 

With all due respect, I think that's up to Conway Stewart to decide .

 

Although it is up to the manufacturer to decide what to charge for their pens and how to justify the pricing, it is up to the potential customer to decide whether this justification makes sense (to them) and whether the item is in fact worth what the manufacturer is suggesting. My point was, that whatever extra efforts are made to manufacture the Bespoke line, and whatever extra benefit the customer gets from ordering a bespoke pen, do not, in my opinion, justify the degree of the extra cost -- given that the standard line is already to a large extent bespoke.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2009 by QM2

[Rufus]

I think it maybe just a case of sacrificing total turnover for margin, i.e. a money grab. Also, I think CS are being disingenuous in their use of the term "bespoke". Would I pay US$689 for a "bespoke" CS58? Absolutely not. I like modern CS pens, owning a Duro, a CS 58 and a Centenary, but because of what they've done with their pricing structure over the past year I'll only be buying in the secondary market.

[andyk]

Hi,

 

Never been that interested in the bespoke range because of the price (the standard prices are pretty high to start with) and haven't liked the move to heavier metal bodied pens with metal sections, often too blingy for me. Some of the recent celluloid or whatever pens have been nice but again very expensive.

 

I currently have 3 modern CSs a 100 FP, a 100 RB and a Duro, whilst I would love another 100 or a 58, I will continue to seek them out second hand or NOS asuming the price is right. Otherwise I will keep a look out fro more vintage CSs at reasonable prices.

 

At the moment I have reached the stage where I have many nice (and expensive) pens and wonder if I really need anymore, the answer is that at current prices, probably not.

 

Andy

[AltecGreen]

I want to comment a bit on the cost of manufacturing. I think most people do not have a realistic view of how much things cost to make and the economy of scale.

 

For example, let's take the cap band on the Duro. It's basically a metal tube of a specific size for the Duro. That's not too hard to make on a lathe. But, anyone who has ever done machining can tell you that on a part like the cap band, most of the time is spent setting up the part on the lathe rather than the actual machining. Set-up for each cut can takes a fair amount of time for each operation. Now if I make just one, I have to spend all of the set-up time on just one piece. The cost for that one piece is going to be a lot. If I make say 100 pieces, I still have to spend the set-up time but that time is going to be the same for 1 or 100 pieces. The cost of set-up gets distributed over a much larger number.

 

I learned this in graduate school when I needed a number of parts made. I call up several shops and they all wanted something like a $500 set-up fee plus materials and a cost per item. If I just had one made, it would have been well over $600 for one part. But, if I ordered say 50, the cost per part ended up to be around $25 each. Because the $500 set-up is charged once and is independent of how many units are made, it is more economical to make more at one time.

 

I suspect that CS, at one time, made a capital investment and had a very large quantity of parts made for the Duro, Dandy, etc. and now they are out. The barrel, cap, and section are probably made to order. The parts that really hurt are things like the cap band, the clip, and trim rings. Unless CS makes another investment on a large quantity of parts, the cost to produce the out of production pens is going to increase. If CS were to make an investment on parts, then they might as well put the pens back in production.

 

From the videos and pcitures of Danitrio production, they seem to make several of the same maki-e models at one time. This is low volume work but making 5-10 units at a time is still more cost effective than making them one at a time.

 

As for bespoke pricing, I have a fully custom Nakaya coming soon, I hope. This pen uses some of their established techniques but with a custom motif, i.e. a true one off pen that is unique. The cost for this pen was double versus an existing special order pen using similar techniques. Custom work is expensive unless you do it yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Deirdre]

I don't know how many of you work (or have worked) in manufacturing

 

FWIW, I have.

 

We too were disappointed when the 58 and Dandy were discontinued and have told CS the same on many occasions but thankfully they were still available through the bespoke service, albeit at a slightly higher price than when they were catalogue models. The recent offer gave customers one last chance to get one of these models at a very reasonable price and helped Conway Stewart clear some otherwise redundant parts and materials. We couldn't give away much at the time but we told recipients of our e-newsletter "We will add more details on this new [bespoke] policy when it is officially announced but we advise anyone thinking about buying a 58, Dandy or Duro fountain pen to take advantage of this offer."

 

In this time of economic uncertainty, it's obviously a good idea to reduce inventory, particularly of resins that weren't otherwise moving. So I applaud CS for having that sale. I hope they were able to clear out a lot of rod stock and generate a lot of working capital.

 

I also understand about the problems of manufacturing in a high-cost country, and I for one am glad that CS is around and making pens.

 

I offer as a suggestion a thought about something that might reduce, for CS, the cost of manufacturing bespoke pens: for a two-week period at the end of the quarter, run a demi-bespoke special on ONE model of pens.

 

E.g., quarter 1 might be silver Dandy pens in both lever and c/c.

Quarter 2 might be model 100 pens in both piston and c/c in off-catalogue colours.

 

If it were a regular thing instead of "ZOMG, BESPOKE NAO" without a lot of opportunity to get the word out, I think it might be more effective and also more remunerative. They'd know how many parts to make and could make them in a group.

 

So, just as a point: of the CS dealers I've done business with who know I like CS pens, how many of them alerted me to the bespoke special: zero. I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed people out there.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Deirdre

[QM2]

I want to comment a bit on the cost of manufacturing. I think most people do not have a realistic view of how much things cost to make and the economy of scale.

...

I suspect that CS, at one time, made a capital investment and had a very large quantity of parts made for the Duro, Dandy, etc. and now they are out. The barrel, cap, and section are probably made to order. The parts that really hurt are things like the cap band, the clip, and trim rings. Unless CS makes another investment on a large quantity of parts, the cost to produce the out of production pens is going to increase. If CS were to make an investment on parts, then they might as well put the pens back in production.

 

I do have a realistic view of manufacturing and I absolutely agree with your description (the text that I've replaced by "...").

 

Regarding your comment above about investment: I think that is precisely the point. CS chose not to make another such investment; they chose to concentrate instead on various high price-point LEs (which, as far as I understand, are actually less limited than their regular production pens). This blatant shift of focus away from the company's original classic models and towards the metal-sectioned, C/C only, super-expensive LEs, is I believe what disappoints some of us.

 

Note that I say all this as a lover of Conway Stewart pens and as an owner of many, both vintage and modern. I have written 2 glowing reviews of modern CS pens on FPN, which I know for a fact have generated business for the company. As a passionate collector, I have a genuine interest in the company, and as such represent a group of dependable, loyal customers whose regular purchasing and encouragement of others to purchase can be counted on. I think that it is unfortunate that the company seems unconcerned about the possibility of alienating this segment of its target market.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2009 by QM2