Are Pelikans cheaper in Germany?

[Melnicki]

Can you save money on a Pelikan by getting one (or having a friend get one) directly from Germany?

 

Just curious... I still don't think I'm going to take the Pelikan plunge yet...

[drifting]

That's an interesting question. As far as regular retail goes, I have no idea, but I do know that I got some great deals on new Pels on eBay from sellers in Germany.

 

Ryan.

[OldGriz]

I have family in Germany and that was one of my first ideas when I started to like Pels...

Amazingly, even with a discount he gets for being an Audi employee, the prices were just about the same as here...

That means that without his discount the prices would have been higher.

Then of course you needed to add postage.

[RLTodd]

Can you save money on a Pelikan by getting one (or having a friend get one) directly from Germany?

 

Just curious... I still don't think I'm going to take the Pelikan plunge yet...

What you run into in the E.U. is that they have Value Added Taxes approaching 20%. These raise the prices of consumer goods and services for the purpose of discouraging domestic consumption. When they export goods to North America the State rebates the V.A.T. to the company so they can be more competitive in the N.A. market. Therefore, you will find it very difficult to buy a good, that is available in N.A., at a lower price in its E.U. country of origin. In some cases you will find the item at a lower price in N.A. than in its E.U. country of origin.

[ballboy]

That's quite often the case I've noticed, on ebay.

[saintsimon]

What you run into in the E.U. is that they have Value Added Taxes approaching 20%. These raise the prices of consumer goods and services for the purpose of discouraging domestic consumption. When they export goods to North America the State rebates the V.A.T. to the company so they can be more competitive in the N.A. market. Therefore, you will find it very difficult to buy a good, that is available in N.A., at a lower price in its E.U. country of origin. In some cases you will find the item at a lower price in N.A. than in its E.U. country of origin.

Actually, it is not that simple, since the same goods may have different pricing in different markets due to marketing acrobatics (often, European cars are cheaper in the U.S.)

 

Lamy pens are cheaper in Germany than in the U.S., but the converters are sold separately. Pilot/Namiki Capless'/Vanishing Points have been set into a much higher price range in Europe than in North America (MSRP around € 200).

Also, German and European shops stick to MSRP prices (MSRPs allways include VAT and other taxes), while the U.S. shops enjoy much more freedom in pricing.

[Michael Wright]

These raise the prices of consumer goods and services for the purpose of discouraging domestic consumption. When they export goods to North America the State rebates the V.A.T. to the company so they can be more competitive in the N.A. market.

A small point, but maybe important as the world moves back towards protectionism. As I understand it, VAT is simply a consumption tax, and the high levels are the result of a policy decision to move away from income tax in the balance of government revenue. You can tell they're not designed to distort international trade by the fact that they apply to non-tradables, e.g. services. The EU being the EU, it's not done in a pure and simple way, but it is a more generalized version of old rather random sales taxes. Not an instrument in any trade war. The fact that EU goods can be cheaper in North America is a product of many factors, including Europe's high cost levels.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

doing his little bit for Free and Fair Trade (especially in agricultural products)

[RLTodd]

What you run into in the E.U. is that they have Value Added Taxes approaching 20%.  These raise the prices of consumer goods and services for the purpose of discouraging domestic consumption.  When they export goods to North America the State rebates the V.A.T. to the company so they can be more competitive in the N.A. market.  Therefore, you will find it very difficult to buy a good, that is available in N.A., at a lower price in its E.U. country of origin.  In some cases you will find the item at a lower price in N.A. than in its E.U. country of origin.

Actually, it is not that simple, since the same goods may have different pricing in different markets due to marketing acrobatics (often, European cars are cheaper in the U.S.)

 

Lamy pens are cheaper in Germany than in the U.S., but the converters are sold separately. Pilot/Namiki Capless'/Vanishing Points have been set into a much higher price range in Europe than in North America (MSRP around € 200).

Also, German and European shops stick to MSRP prices (MSRPs allways include VAT and other taxes), while the U.S. shops enjoy much more freedom in pricing.

Yes there are other factors that can and do effect pricing differentials.

 

However, for the question that was asked, the V.A.T., with its accompanied rebate on exports, in and of itself is sufficient to answer the question.

[Guest Denis Richard]

My personal observation is that, as a rule of thumb, necessities are cheaper in Europe, and the frivolous is cheaper in North America, independently of where it has been produced.

[RLTodd]

These raise the prices of consumer goods and services for the purpose of discouraging domestic consumption.  When they export goods to North America the State rebates the V.A.T. to the company so they can be more competitive in the N.A. market.

A small point, but maybe important as the world moves back towards protectionism. As I understand it, VAT is simply a consumption tax, and the high levels are the result of a policy decision to move away from income tax in the balance of government revenue. You can tell they're not designed to distort international trade by the fact that they apply to non-tradables, e.g. services. The EU being the EU, it's not done in a pure and simple way, but it is a more generalized version of old rather random sales taxes. Not an instrument in any trade war. The fact that EU goods can be cheaper in North America is a product of many factors, including Europe's high cost levels.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

doing his little bit for Free and Fair Trade (especially in agricultural products)

The V.A.T. is seldom imposed with protectionism in mind because tariffs are so much more efficient.

 

V.A.T. is usually brought out in addition to a national income tax because they have different political objectives.

 

A V.A.T. is not simple, over time they become one of the most difficult taxes to administer. Each time "value" is added to a good or service it is a potentially taxable act.

 

The V.A.T. has never been saleable in the States because we have the world's only consumer centered economy and the consumers who are voters won't stand for it. ( It has a pernicous attraction to the minority of us who could make a fortune filling out V.A.T. forms, but that isn't a nice story...)

 

The high cost levels of Europe are shipped to the states in the finished product, the V.A.T. is removed as it leaves Europe's shore. One of these costs is Europe's historically low labor productivity. As I can see no counter to this trend I expect European writing instruments to disappear from the U.S. market and be replaced in total by Asian production. (I have seen ball point pens comming in that were made in India and South Africa.)

 

It is the same story time and again, those who fail to learn from history, etc. You saw it with cameras, you saw it with motorcycles, your seeing it with automobiles, you will see it with fountain pens.

[saintsimon]

The high cost levels of Europe are shipped to the states in the finished product, the V.A.T. is removed as it leaves Europe's shore. One of these costs is Europe's historically low labor productivity. As I can see no counter to this trend I expect European writing instruments to disappear from the U.S. market and be replaced in total by Asian production. (I have seen ball point pens comming in that were made in India and South Africa.)

 

It is the same story time and again, those who fail to learn from history, etc. You saw it with cameras, you saw it with motorcycles, your seeing it with automobiles, you will see it with fountain pens.

Well, Pelikan is a Malaysian-owned company, which has production facilities in Malaysia, too. So much about Asian pens.

 

You see no counter to a trend? Ever heard of the ongoing general transfer of production capacities and facilities from Western Europe to Eastern Europe, mostly within the EU (now 25 member countries), where they meet low wages and a highly motivated, well educated workforce? That for example Peugeot closes factories in Britain to open new ones in Slowakia?

Or Sheaffer moving part of their production to Europe , away from the U.S.

But in the long run, a lot of production will migrate further eastward to China ...

[Melnicki]

wow, thanks. this is why i work in a wet lab, far far away from economics!! yuck, my head hurts just thinking about it....