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Parker 51


tonysameh

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David.

My response to your comments [not worthy of the word 'argument'] was sincere and not once did I personally attack you. I only critiqued what was written.

 

In reply, I get a viscous, mean personal attack that projects your own anxieties onto me.

 

Additionally, you show that you clearly have no understanding of philosophy and social theory. Not only do you seem unable to conduct a discussion from that theoretical stance, but you also appear to be incapable of attempting to do so in a civil manner.

 

I have no need to continue this. I'm off to other posts where people are nice to each other.

Miranda

 

PS. I note the Lehrer Vintage Pen Catalogue defines their "Good" pens as: Well used, imprints may be almost gone, plating wear", and have a further category of 'Fair' for 'A parts pen'.

Vintage Pens defines good as wear is significant but even, metal may show light dings or appreciable brassing', whilst 'Fair' is 'heavily worn though fundamentally sound'.

 

Your arguments have been weak and have been refuted at nearly every phase.

 

You have retreated into arguments about philosophy of language, while failing to address real world applications.

 

When called on this, you have retreated into diversionary sulk, ranging from claims of elitism, of would-be superiority, of sexual hostility, and- now- apparently too of gooey gelatinousness (I'm pretty sure I've never launched a gooey gelatinous- viscous- attack).

 

Indeed, you have provided two other dealers' definitions confirming my take on "good".

 

You have mapped your own insecurities onto me.

 

It might, or might not, be clear to all reading this that I either do or don't know anything about the philosophy of language, but it is clear that your philosophers will get their rear ends handed to them at pen shows by buying bad pens as "good" and declining to learn from those who'd teach them otherwise, since no doubt those trying to teach them are merely reaching for an unearned power and superiority by embracing jargonesque definitions.

 

You had no need to continue "this" after the first go-round. You chose to. Let us not sulk about it.

 

Shall we now return to "new", the original point of the thread?

 

regards

 

david

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Shall we now return to "new", the original point of the thread?

 

I'd like to think of this original point as old ;)

 

George

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David, Why do you feel the need to be such a bully to me? Miranda

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David, Why do you feel the need to be such a bully to me? Miranda

 

Sulk #5... what is it called... i have heard... the "victim card"? Or, is that "kettle calling pot, black"-isms. Or... rather... the Straw Man. Of course, all this might just be an attempt to use specific jargon to gain power over others????

 

I remain amazed, after all these years, seeing the number of folks who say, "i'm done with this thread", only... not to be.

 

regards

 

David

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I repeat, David, why do you feel the need to be such a bully to me? Miranda

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I repeat, David, why do you feel the need to be such a bully to me? Miranda

 

 

I repeat

 

 

Sulk #5... what is it called... i have heard... the "victim card"? Or, is that "kettle calling pot, black"-isms. Or... rather... the Straw Man. Of course, all this might just be an attempt to use specific jargon to gain power over others????

 

I remain amazed, after all these years, seeing the number of folks who say, "i'm done with this thread", only... not to be.

 

regards

 

-david

 

ps. can do this ad infinitum.

 

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ps. can do this ad infinitum.

I would just like to make it crystal clear that you can't.

 

Expect a message of the personal variety.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of nothing at all...

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David. I posted a critical textual analysis of your post that used some of Bourdieu's social theory to illustrate how it works in practice. You disagreed. That is your right. I responded that I was not going to continue that debate.

 

Not once did i make a comment about you personally. I only addressed the text.

 

Yet, in your responses to me, you have continued to make aggressive negative comments about me personally.

 

So, again I ask: Why do you feel the need to bully me? Miranda

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Hi All

I always hear about Parker 51 as the world most popular FP.

 

So, is it still sold brand new?

Hi,

 

What seemed like a simple question exploded into a massive thread. Impressive. I'm not sure what some of the posts go on and on about, nor do I care. You should not either.

 

It has been stated that it depends how you define "new". This is true.

 

I see you included the words "brand new". This to me means of recent manufacture, in which case it seems the answer is apparently no. That could change of course if Parker starts making the 51 again.

 

 

Sold

 

Brand New

 

 

If a pen has never been used, then it is brand new. I someone sells a pen that is new old stock, then the person is selling a brand new pen. Thus, yes, 51s are sold brand new.

 

Unless new is defined by how long the pen has been out of the factory. In which case, yeah, that is a conversation that will never be resolved, like, How many pieces of hay does it take to make a stack?

I apologize if the points I mention have been covered, but I did not have the time to read all 8 pages of this thread.

 

I fundamentally agree with the above post. My definition would be that a pen that has never been used is new. Maybe not brand-spanking new (I guess the word "spanking" somehow indicates a time frame in this case), but new and unused none the less. I've heard of this type of merchandise being called New Old Stock (NOS). If it's only been inked once and written with briefly, with virtually imperceptible evidence of use the same year of manufacture, it's still been used and is thus not new.

 

Then again if a newspaper has never been sold and read, is it new or old? Is the information new or old news? It's rather subjective at that point, since it might be old news to some and still new news to others. So both answers will be correct, depending on the point of view.

 

As for collector jargon I think it's also subjective and depends greatly on the individuals definitions. Across a lifetime of collecting stuff I don't need, there have been all sorts of scales of community reference that include words like:

 

Poor

Fair

Good

Excellent

Near Mint

Mint

New

 

Usually in these types of scales "Good" is not great and almost never close to "New" or "Mint", although still functional and perhaps a good choice for someone on a budget or perhaps looking for a functional "beater" that they can try out and/or enjoy without having to worry about a collectable issue.

So a good pen might be a great idea! :)

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