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Any imput on the Waterman Exclusive?


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34 replies to this topic

#21 Old Salt

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 21:06

Something I didn’t know. From Wikipedia:
Brass is susceptible to stress corrosion cracking,[26] especially from ammonia or substances containing or releasing ammonia. The problem is sometimes known as season cracking after it was first discovered in brass cartridges used for rifle ammunition during the 1920s in the British Indian Army. The problem was caused by high residual stresses from cold forming of the cases during manufacture, together with chemical attack from traces of ammonia in the atmosphere. The cartridges were stored in stables and the ammonia concentration rose during the hot summer months, thus initiating brittle cracks. The problem was resolved by annealing the cases, and storing the cartridges elsewhere.

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#22 Tweel

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 23:46

Yes, and there are a couple of us around here who have some concern that habitual use of ammonia for flushing could lead to eventual stress corrosion cracking of gold (alloy) nibs.

fpn_1375035941__postcard_swap.png * * * "Don't neglect to write me several times from different places when you may."
-- John Purdue (1863)

 


#23 bob_hayden

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:36

I have an Exclusive I bought at a clearance sale when they ended production.  I only just found this thread because I only just learned the model name.  Mine has a lovely nib, and seems to be happy with the long Waterman cartridges.  They just disappear inside the barrel, which might be a good thing to check.  If they do not go that far in I would look for some obstruction.     As it happens, I only recently realized that this pen suffered from the corrosion problem mentioned above. I normally use black ink in it and thought there was just an accumulation of black ink at that point, but trying to clean that off revealed otherwise.  I would think that if you can remove this part it might be possible to clean it up and replate it. 

 

I also have two Waterman 1900s which are sort of the economy version with less trim and gold plated steel nibs that are almost as nice.  Poking around the Internet just now I find that this model was more commonly known as the Maestro.  In the past I had tried searching for "Waterman 1900" and not turned up much.  This model does not have the trim ring that corrodes on the Exclusive.  However, the gunmetal grey finish on one of mine wore off in an area about the size of the hole punched in loose leaf filler paper. 



#24 sidthecat

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 00:08

I’m afraid I’ve taken one of those smooth-writing 18k nibs and had Mr. Minuskin grind it to a stub. Less smooth a writer (still pretty smooth) but a more interesting one.

#25 inkstainedruth

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 23:45

Found this thread while doing some research.  I just bought my very first Waterman a couple of days ago.  I believe it's an Exclusive (from reading some other threads), but beyond that I know very little about the brand or model.  I picked it up in antiques store about an hour northeast of me -- I had been in the place about a week ago, and noticed the pen, and when I went back I talked myself into buying it (along with a Parker Jotter with a window, and a partially filled little bottle of vintage Sanford Blue Black).  

So I have some questions....  I'd like to pin down the approximate age of the pen, for instance.  I've seen everything listed between the 1970s and the 1990s.  And of course I don't know anything about Waterman pens....

Most importantly, of course is what converter do I get for it?  I read that Waterman has proprietary cartridges, but also recall seeing some post in my travels that they take international standard (?) -- or is it that they take "long" standard" Waterman cartridges?  

I tried to look up prices on the Bay of Evil last night, and they seem all over the map -- but I think the $10 + tax I paid for it was a good price....  B)  No box or paperwork of course, but I'm used to that with vintage pens.

I haven't been able to try the pen yet (I suppose I could try reconstituting what's in the cartridge, and/or dipping the pen in distilled water to get it started).  Hoping that I will be able to get a converter next weekend at the Commonwealth Pen Show.  It's a little on the heavy side for it's slim size, but I've gotten somewhat more used to heavier pens.  (I forgot to have a ruler next to the pen for size purposes, but I read someplace that the capped length is 142 mm, and that seems about right when I checked later.). Pen is black with gold-color trim; I gather it's "Chinese lacquer" over brass.  There's a bit of gunk on the barrel  -- which may or may not show in the photos -- which I haven't cleaned off completely, (residue from removing the price sticker).

fpn_1536449071__waterman_ideal.jpg

fpn_1536449210__waterman_ideal_uncapped.

fpn_1536449474__waterman_ideal_nib.jpg

fpn_1536449572__waterman_ideal_feed.jpg

fpn_1536449672__waterman_ideal_clutch_ri

fpn_1536449754__waterman_ideal_clutch_ri

I didn't include closeups of the clip (which has the Waterman "W" on it) or the section.  And I'm afraid I forgot to take a photo showing the cartridge; in my defense I had a LOT of photos to take yesterday, not just of this pen....  

Nib is 18K (I'm assuming that the little diamond is some sort of hallmark, although it's worn down a bit); nib appears to be an F.  The clutch ring says "Waterman" and "Made in France" but I don't see any sort of other markings on the pen or nib (even MODERN Parkers have date codes on them...); and I don't know when Waterman got bought up by Newell-Rubbermaid alongside of Parker).

Thanks in advance for any assistance and furtherance of knowledge.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#26 Force

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 04:32

You are correct in all that you assume. A Waterman Exclusive, Black lacquer over brass with a solid 18k Fine (F) nib.

 

The Exclusive appeared 1986'ish replacing the Executive, a very similar model. I think it ran until the early 1990's.

 

The flat diamond on the nib is Watermans company stamp containing a few letters, mainly WAT over S A. There is a line between which on less worn stamps can be seen as a 3 piece pen.

 

It will accept Waterman converters from the period 1980 onward and standard International cartridges (long and short). In all honesty stick to Waterman accessories for this pen. 

 

In short nice pens, solid smooth nibs. Good find for the price you paid.

 

PS, soak all the parts in warm soapy water to clean. It's that easy with these.

 

They were manufactured in many finishes, here are just a few of my growing collection.

 

DSCN0143b.jpg



#27 inkstainedruth

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 05:36

Thanks for the quick response.  That blue one you have is pretty.  When I was trying to look up what it was last night, I found a few other threads, and something someone here on FPN (Ernst Bitterman?) had put up on the Ravens March website info about the different section designs between the Executive and the Exclusive (and a third model for which I don't recall the name offhand).

Hopefully someone will have a Waterman converter at the Commonwealth Pen Show -- so I don't have to wait all the way till November and the Ohio Pen Show.  I'll have to see whether I like the weight of that skinny a pen or not especially since the barrel is a little thinner than on one of my Vectors (the cap is a similar diameter). 

I do like the satisfying click of seating the cap when posting the pen.  And it is certainly stylish and classy looking -- way better than some Taiwanese no-name with a "Iridium Point Germany" nib for the same price that I also found in the store....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#28 Force

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 06:42

The section finish on the Exclusive is AKA the hand grenade for obvious reasons. The Executive has straight flutes.

 

The third pen with this style section is the modern Lady of which there are numerous finishes/styles.

 

All can be interchanged.

 

DSCN0989b.jpg

 

WAT over SA.jpg



#29 bob_hayden

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 23:05

I think long or short international cartridges as well as Waterman long cartridges should fit.  You would think then that any random converter compatible with those would fit, but life is not so simple.  The Waterman has a sleeve on the section that the cartridge slides into.  It's been noted that this is a slim pen, and very few international converters will fit into that sleeve.  At the moment I could find just one.  It's a very chintzy looking slide converter that I think came with a pen from China.  If you have a pile of international converters this one has a clear ball as agitator. 

 

Real Waterman converters are $10-15 on eBay.



#30 Bookman

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 00:24

I have used the long cartridges off and on in my Exclusive since Christmas 1990. No problems. By the way: love mine. Mrs Bookman bought it at Macy's in Sacramento for $60.

I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

 


#31 inkstainedruth

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 22:53

Well, I had no luck last weekend at finding a converter.  Someone sent me to one table, but the guy had left his converters at home.  The only other seller that had any (at least that I could find) was the Bob Slate's table -- and we tried several different converters, none of which fit quite right -- they all seemed just a bit loose.... :(  (And that was the determination of the woman working that table as much as mine -- although I do appreciate her efforts).

So, looks like OPS it is....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#32 bob_hayden

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 23:43

For now, you could clean out the cartridge and refill it with the bottled ink of your choice;-)

 

$10 is a terrific price for one of these in working order.

 

I just fiddled with mine some more. In addition to the sleeve that blocks most international converters from inserting, when I do find a converter skinny enough it only goes in half way.  I wonder if this is what you meant by "loose".  For me they are so loose they would fall out if I turned the assembly nib up, but I did not force the converter in. It feels to me as though the inner diameter is tapered or has some other restriction that blocks these converters.  The Waterman converters on eBay seem to have a taper themselves and the section may match that.  I think they really do not want you to use a $1 Jinhao converter;-) 



#33 Bookman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 00:16

Well, I had no luck last weekend at finding a converter.  Someone sent me to one table, but the guy had left his converters at home.  The only other seller that had any (at least that I could find) was the Bob Slate's table -- and we tried several different converters, none of which fit quite right -- they all seemed just a bit loose.... :(  (And that was the determination of the woman working that table as much as mine -- although I do appreciate her efforts).

So, looks like OPS it is....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Here's a Waterman converter at ipenstore.  I don't know how many they have in stock.


I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

 


#34 Bookman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 00:20

 

Here's a Waterman converter at ipenstore.  I don't know how many they have in stock.  I just ordered two of them.


I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

 

 

 


#35 inkstainedruth

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 17:25

 

Here's a Waterman converter at ipenstore.  I don't know how many they have in stock.

 

Thanks.  But I think I want to wait until I can actually try converters in person (especially after my experience last weekend at the Bob Slate's table), rather than ordering and then having to futz with sending them back.  Commonwealth is a really small show, and I expect I will have better luck in November at the OPS, where there are more dealers likely to stock various converters.

Yes, I want to try the pen.  But I have pens that I haven't been able to use that I've owned a lot longer -- vintage pens that I need to get repaired (like the Laidtone Duovac I found at an estate sale several months ago).  A more modern pen that I just need to get a converter for is lower on the to-do list

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."






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