We all know that for a given nib size, there is great variability in line thickness from one manufacturer to the other, or even from one model to the other within the same brand. But we hear very often of "fines that write like mediums" and "mediums that write like broads", but we almost never hear of a medium that writes like a fine or a whimpy broad that writes just like a medium. How could that be? Are most people used to ball points and they judge line thickness accordingly? Or is just far less bothersome to have a nib write slightly thinner than slightly thicker than expected, so when the line is a little wider than expected people are more prone to complaining? Or perhaps manufacturers simply err on the side of describing a nib as thinner than it actually is versus thicker than it actually is? I really do wonder.

Many of my mediums can indeed be considered more or less as true mediums. But two of them could easily qualify as broads (Duofold Centennial and Cross Townsend). But none of my mediums could be mistaken for thins though So what are your experinces in this regard?

Modern Aurora mediums write a fine line and
their broads write like mediums.
Japanese nibs also run narrower than American/European
nibs generally speaking.

I am guessing that most of us don't really make any precise measurements when we describe how wide our pens write. We have in mind a certain "standard," (For example: the fine nib on my Parker "51",) and then we judge other pens in regards to that "standard," (My Waterman Phileas fine writes wider than my Parker "51" fine. Thus the Waterman writes a fine that is closer to a medium.) Our descriptions of pen width are typically comparative descriptions, if that makes any sense.

TMann

hmm... too out of it to make any intelligent conversation on this.

I have said recently that my latest acquisition - has a medium nib that writes fine by my standards and by comparison to other Pelikan nibs. I've also said that is perfectly uh.. fine... with me because I prefer fines and was going to "settle" for a medium because the pen is hard to find these days and I was getting a good deal on it. i thought i might end up changing out the nib but nope - that medium doesn't write medium to me so I'm happy with it.

i suspect actually that it is a combination of all the factors you proposed. I do think when i first started using FPs i judged line width by ballpoint line. That i'd rather have a nib write finer than i expected than broader, and that manufacturers do prefer to have a nib judged finer than it really is - probably because of the variability of inks and papers. A pen that wites fine on high quality paper with an MB ink, could very well write medium with a Diamine or Noodler's ink on paper that absorbes a bit more. So you go for the low end of the scale in describing/defining your "fine" nib that you manufacture.

or I could be so far off base it's laughable.

Well, my Pelikan M200 medium puts down a finer line than my Namiki Falcon medium. It's also much finer than my Pelikan M605 medium. Through a magnifier I can see that both Pelikan mediums are indeed labeled medium, and the M200 is actually physically thinner. Very strange...

Doug

My Lamy 2000 has a Broad but I find it more of a nice medium. I find Omas to be almost 1 size broader than usual and Stipula to be right on par

TNS

Thanks for all the comments, especially KCat's who reminded us that paper is a very important factor, if not the most important.

After reading her post, I used a few different papers to test the inked pens I had with me. I even found an old Clairfontaine notepad I had lying in my office. Seeing the very drammatic differences paper made, I even inked my Duofold Centennial last night and brought it to work to write on the same papers. What do you know, even that thick nibbed ink gusher puts down a very reasonable mediumish line on many papers, including on Clairfontaine's. It is not as though wasn't aware of these differences, but it was the first time I did a systematic comparison with my newer pens and with more than just two types of paper.

I think I need to put some signs saying "no fine nibs allowed." I am sure there are some exceptions, but I have a feeling more often than not, it is the paper that makes the line look thicker then expected.

i am not too sure if pen ink flow makes a difference, i've only really used 2 mabie todds, 1 medium and 1 fine nib, and they both put alot of ink down. the other pen a sailor one, seems tame compared to these.
i assume these 2 pens write wider than most other ones of same nib width, but i am not sure, as i think i am too inexperinced with fountain pens so far