i know most of you probably had to go through trial and error. my only experience is with a XF waterman nib and i am moving up to a fine nib with the bexley i am getting. i have seen the link to the pelikan nib section that shows how the nib sizes differ, and in that, you can see that the lines of ink are wider and there is more boldness or depth of color
i wonder if people choose nibs for signatures only (where a broader line and more depth of color might be more impactful to the eye) or is there a compromise in trying to get soemthing that you could actually write on lined papers or calendars? i intentionally ordered some wailty's so i can not only play with a brown ink (and want to get a purple one) but they had a fine to medium nib.
i doubt i would have a pen just to have signatures, but then again, the xf nib just was too fine, and had no depth of color which i am sure was correlated to the width of the line it put down. also i understand that the bexley is a wetter nib than the waterman charleston xf, so that may solve a lot of what i am trying to get done
sam
Full Version: how do you choose a nib
Hi Sam,
Choosing a nib can be very difficult indeed. OTOH, if you look at European school pens, you'll find that they are available generally in 2 nib sizes, F and M, and maybe a leftie edition of either, although generally only of the M.
This indicates that most people should be able to write well with one of these nib sizes on regularly lined paper, in such a way that closed letter loops don't fill in with ink. Closed letter loops tend to make writing unreadable, so that explains that.
If you normally write in a quite small script, you should start with an F nib I think, and if you write a bit bigger, with an M nib. This is provided you use fairly good paper, fountain pen friendly at least, so nothing as absorbing as, f.e., newspaper.
That's really how you start, IMO. And from there on, you try different brands of pens, to discover that not all nibs with the same designation were created equal, and neither are inks. And slowly but surely you find the nibs and pens and inks you like and feel comfortable with.
Now, that is for normal writing practice, like note taking or letter writing. For signatures some people have a special signature pen, often with a wider nib, like a B or even bigger. They think it looks better that way, big and bold, but IMO it really is just a matter of taste and preference.
Specialty nibs, like italics, you can treat in a similar way to normal nibs. The range from 0.6 to 0.9 mm nibs I consider fine nibs, 0.9 mm really an F-M nib, and from 0.9 to 1.1 mm medium nibs. it depends a bit on the width of the horizontals, obviously, but this distinction works for me with cursive italics. And the distinction is based on the same criteria as for the F and M nibs.
If you do write a smaller script normally, you would have to go to an Xf or EF nib, and bigger, to a B nib.
Just note that Japanese nibs generally are a half to a whole size smaller than their designation, compared to European and American nibs.
If you are a leftie, it gets a little bit more complicated, especially if you are a overwriter. I'll leave that to someone else to explain
.
Anyway, HTH, warm regards, Wim
Choosing a nib can be very difficult indeed. OTOH, if you look at European school pens, you'll find that they are available generally in 2 nib sizes, F and M, and maybe a leftie edition of either, although generally only of the M.
This indicates that most people should be able to write well with one of these nib sizes on regularly lined paper, in such a way that closed letter loops don't fill in with ink. Closed letter loops tend to make writing unreadable, so that explains that.
If you normally write in a quite small script, you should start with an F nib I think, and if you write a bit bigger, with an M nib. This is provided you use fairly good paper, fountain pen friendly at least, so nothing as absorbing as, f.e., newspaper.
That's really how you start, IMO. And from there on, you try different brands of pens, to discover that not all nibs with the same designation were created equal, and neither are inks. And slowly but surely you find the nibs and pens and inks you like and feel comfortable with.
Now, that is for normal writing practice, like note taking or letter writing. For signatures some people have a special signature pen, often with a wider nib, like a B or even bigger. They think it looks better that way, big and bold, but IMO it really is just a matter of taste and preference.
Specialty nibs, like italics, you can treat in a similar way to normal nibs. The range from 0.6 to 0.9 mm nibs I consider fine nibs, 0.9 mm really an F-M nib, and from 0.9 to 1.1 mm medium nibs. it depends a bit on the width of the horizontals, obviously, but this distinction works for me with cursive italics. And the distinction is based on the same criteria as for the F and M nibs.
If you do write a smaller script normally, you would have to go to an Xf or EF nib, and bigger, to a B nib.
Just note that Japanese nibs generally are a half to a whole size smaller than their designation, compared to European and American nibs.
If you are a leftie, it gets a little bit more complicated, especially if you are a overwriter. I'll leave that to someone else to explain
.Anyway, HTH, warm regards, Wim
a great explanation. i dont think im gonna get a pen for just signatures, and since i was told that my vowels tended to close up with a cross apogee and medium nib, im probably gonna stick with the f nib on the bexley. ill see with the wailtys if a fine to medium works and i guess i can pay to change out the nib if i find i want a medium. broad with my handwriting would be too big IMO
sam
sam
Sam,
My "standard writing" pens are all fine-nibbed and are loaded with blue or black ink. My Waterman Phileas, Pelikan m215, and Namiki VP all fit into that category. Since it sounds like you use your pens a lot for work, and that you have fairly small writing, your main users should probably have fine nibs.
However, if you start using your pens for "fun" writing, ie. journals, letters to friends & family, penmanship practice, etc. then you might find that it's enjoyable to try writing with a different style nib. In my collection I currently have a few narrow italic nibs, a few broad italic nibs, and couple of broad nibs. I never use those at work, (I'm a physician,) but when I'm practing my handwriting or writing a letter to my wife I always grab one of my "fun" pens to use.
Good luck with your search!
TMann
My "standard writing" pens are all fine-nibbed and are loaded with blue or black ink. My Waterman Phileas, Pelikan m215, and Namiki VP all fit into that category. Since it sounds like you use your pens a lot for work, and that you have fairly small writing, your main users should probably have fine nibs.
However, if you start using your pens for "fun" writing, ie. journals, letters to friends & family, penmanship practice, etc. then you might find that it's enjoyable to try writing with a different style nib. In my collection I currently have a few narrow italic nibs, a few broad italic nibs, and couple of broad nibs. I never use those at work, (I'm a physician,) but when I'm practing my handwriting or writing a letter to my wife I always grab one of my "fun" pens to use.
Good luck with your search!
TMann
Very good advice so far. I wanted to mention that some pens sort of lend themselves to trying different nibs... Esterbrook, Pilot Vanishing Point, and Pelikan come to mind.
have fun
Bill
have fun
Bill
Here's an example of some writing I did with a broad nibbed Sheaffer Imperial. I would never think of trying to use this pen at work, or trying to take notes at school with it. But for casual writing, it's a fun pen to use! I often use this pen to write notes to my wife. It's also a good pen to use for handwriting practice; I'd swear that writing big letters with a broad nibbed pen has helped my "normal" writing look better
My advice at this point would be to get yourself a pen or two to use for work. Figure out what nib size works best for your style of writing and also, find yourself some ink colors that you enjoy using.
After that, shop around and find yourself some inexpensive pens with different nibs to experiment with. You might be surprised at what pens end up catching your fancy!
TMann
My advice at this point would be to get yourself a pen or two to use for work. Figure out what nib size works best for your style of writing and also, find yourself some ink colors that you enjoy using.
After that, shop around and find yourself some inexpensive pens with different nibs to experiment with. You might be surprised at what pens end up catching your fancy!
TMann
well, great guns, tmann, i guess i followed your advice without really knowing that was what i was gonna do. earlier this morning, i ordered a couple of wailty pens for $9.99 each and the nibs were described as fine to medium, which is broader than the fine i got on my bexley. the bexley will be used for work, to carry around in the shirt pocket. the wailtys will have my havana brown and a purple ink for fun when i can find it. i guess when i get more attuned to what nibs do, and how i tend to write, then i will scour the marketplace forum for cheap pens with the broad, or stub, or italic nibs. but your page of handwriting exhibits what i meant when i say that the broader nib showed a depth of color. imagine how it would appear to the eye if you have a vibrant blue ink and saw that page in person. i believe your eye would say the broad nib ink is better looking. i can see why some people like one pen for just signing letters - that bold ink look can be very nice.
sam
sam
I confess to being surprised at the number of people who choose fine nibs or even extra fine, going by the various threads on this fascinating site. I have tried fine nibs and to me they are not great and they show up every imperfection in my writing.
And there is only so much criticism I can take from a pen
So, for me, it is generally medium even if that seems a bit boring.
I do have a broad (Cross Century) and that is great for notes during meetings, even on paper with fine lines.
I tried a broad nib in the Sailor (the Zoom nib) and found that it was just too much for me - like writing with a paintbrush. But, I have an old Sheaffer with a medium/broad nib that allows me to write with a lot of flourish and line variation if I want. Too fussy for everyday, but fun when I'm writing to friends or just scribbling in the notebook.
Chris
And there is only so much criticism I can take from a pen
So, for me, it is generally medium even if that seems a bit boring.
I do have a broad (Cross Century) and that is great for notes during meetings, even on paper with fine lines.
I tried a broad nib in the Sailor (the Zoom nib) and found that it was just too much for me - like writing with a paintbrush. But, I have an old Sheaffer with a medium/broad nib that allows me to write with a lot of flourish and line variation if I want. Too fussy for everyday, but fun when I'm writing to friends or just scribbling in the notebook.
Chris
This is a very interesting topic.
I always thought I prefered a medium nib... that is what we wrote with in school when we were learning and I guess there was a kind of "memory" to my decisions when I started into fountain pens again....
However, I am finding that in reality I am preferring a finer nib... not real fine, but definately a finer nib. The pens that I make come with a medium Bock steel nib... these are pretty much a standard medium.. and depending on the ink run a nice wet line.... but there are times I find them to be too broad for me..
My all time favorite pens (at this time, subject to change) are my Sheaffer TD and Snorkels with gold Triumph nibs in fine... they lay down a beautiful wet line that is just a bit bigger than what most people might call a true fine... and they feel like glass... absolutely wonderful nibs...
These are followed by my Pelikan 200s, one with a fine nib and the other a Binder .8 stub.
BUT AGAIN... this can change depending on the paper I am writing on, the distance betwen the lines, my mood when I am writing, if I am in a hurry or taking my time.
I guess that is why we own different pens.... I will say that the majority of my daily writers are fine nibs... and I do not have a small hand.... but I love the way my handwriting looks with a fine as opposed to a medium nib...
OK, now that I have totally confused you... go out and play... someday we will all find the perfect pen and nib for our style of writing and we will be bored to tears for the rest of our days...
I always thought I prefered a medium nib... that is what we wrote with in school when we were learning and I guess there was a kind of "memory" to my decisions when I started into fountain pens again....
However, I am finding that in reality I am preferring a finer nib... not real fine, but definately a finer nib. The pens that I make come with a medium Bock steel nib... these are pretty much a standard medium.. and depending on the ink run a nice wet line.... but there are times I find them to be too broad for me..
My all time favorite pens (at this time, subject to change) are my Sheaffer TD and Snorkels with gold Triumph nibs in fine... they lay down a beautiful wet line that is just a bit bigger than what most people might call a true fine... and they feel like glass... absolutely wonderful nibs...
These are followed by my Pelikan 200s, one with a fine nib and the other a Binder .8 stub.
BUT AGAIN... this can change depending on the paper I am writing on, the distance betwen the lines, my mood when I am writing, if I am in a hurry or taking my time.
I guess that is why we own different pens.... I will say that the majority of my daily writers are fine nibs... and I do not have a small hand.... but I love the way my handwriting looks with a fine as opposed to a medium nib...
OK, now that I have totally confused you... go out and play... someday we will all find the perfect pen and nib for our style of writing and we will be bored to tears for the rest of our days...
I use different types of nibs depending on what I'm writing and my mood. For quick everyday notes etc. I like fine and extra fine nibs. For letter writing, my mood will dictate the nib. Some inks work better with different nibs.
I'm not sure if I asked you this before, but do you have the opportunity to go to a pen show that Richard Binder will be attending? He has a number of specialty nibs all set up in demonstrator pens. If you go early and/or when things are quiet, you could sit down and write yourself an exemplar. I did that once or twice. With each pen, I wrote what kind of nib it was that I was writing with.
Also, for fun experimentation, get yourself a few Lamy Safari's. They cost between $18 - $25 and you can get a variety of different nibs including italic. If you settle on a nib that you prefer, it's easy to change the nib in all of them. Lots of fun colors.
I'm not sure if I asked you this before, but do you have the opportunity to go to a pen show that Richard Binder will be attending? He has a number of specialty nibs all set up in demonstrator pens. If you go early and/or when things are quiet, you could sit down and write yourself an exemplar. I did that once or twice. With each pen, I wrote what kind of nib it was that I was writing with.
Also, for fun experimentation, get yourself a few Lamy Safari's. They cost between $18 - $25 and you can get a variety of different nibs including italic. If you settle on a nib that you prefer, it's easy to change the nib in all of them. Lots of fun colors.
elaine: i just saw that there is a pen show in atlanta. i am still kinda new to fountain pens, just having found this forum in december. i am going to make it a point to attend a pen show. and since i am an early riser, i could get over to the pen show early, heck, for private tutorials, id help set up and man the booth!!!!!!!!!
we only have one true pen store, called the tobacco corner. seems as though office depot and the like have run out many of our once thriving office supply stores. i work in our downtown area where the courts and many businiesses used to have their headquarters. many fine barbers and office supply stores are now gone.
at the pen store, i was able to hold a visconti opera club and a wallstreet and a vangogh maxi. i prefered the heft of the opera club but perhaps the vangogh might be a better writer. they had some duponts, some crosses, some schaeffers and some watermans. when i wrote with one in december, a cross apogee, the man told me that a medium would be too big for my handwriting as my "a" and "e" letters tended to close up. but he told me to write at a normal speed.
so with the opinions expressed on one of my posts, i got my bexley ordered in a fine, which i am told is a wider fine than say a waterman fine. this may be perfect for me, giving me a broad enough line so that the depth of the florida blue will show up, and give a more impactful presentation to my signature.
i did get some play pens for inks but i am now secondarily glad they have the fine to medium nibs as described for wailtys on isellpens.com. ill also make it a point to seek our pen stores when my wife and i travel. i have to go get my daughter in knoxville in april, and will spend the night at a conference outside nashville, so i will get up earlier to attempt to locate a great pen store in nashville.
as an aside, having my daughter in knoxville has fed my wetshaving acquisition disorder of shave creams as she can run by knox cigar and pick me up castle forbes creams with no shipping and bring it home to me, lol
sam
we only have one true pen store, called the tobacco corner. seems as though office depot and the like have run out many of our once thriving office supply stores. i work in our downtown area where the courts and many businiesses used to have their headquarters. many fine barbers and office supply stores are now gone.
at the pen store, i was able to hold a visconti opera club and a wallstreet and a vangogh maxi. i prefered the heft of the opera club but perhaps the vangogh might be a better writer. they had some duponts, some crosses, some schaeffers and some watermans. when i wrote with one in december, a cross apogee, the man told me that a medium would be too big for my handwriting as my "a" and "e" letters tended to close up. but he told me to write at a normal speed.
so with the opinions expressed on one of my posts, i got my bexley ordered in a fine, which i am told is a wider fine than say a waterman fine. this may be perfect for me, giving me a broad enough line so that the depth of the florida blue will show up, and give a more impactful presentation to my signature.
i did get some play pens for inks but i am now secondarily glad they have the fine to medium nibs as described for wailtys on isellpens.com. ill also make it a point to seek our pen stores when my wife and i travel. i have to go get my daughter in knoxville in april, and will spend the night at a conference outside nashville, so i will get up earlier to attempt to locate a great pen store in nashville.
as an aside, having my daughter in knoxville has fed my wetshaving acquisition disorder of shave creams as she can run by knox cigar and pick me up castle forbes creams with no shipping and bring it home to me, lol
sam
It's great that you'll be able to go to the Atlanta Pen Show! Richard will be there. Also, stop by Susan Wirth's table. She believes that the most important aspect of a pen is the nib and how it works with your particular hand. While many of her pens are nice looking, don't be surprised if you fall in love with an unattractive pen. I did, and I love it. Ok, so I fell in even more in love with a beautiful pen with an even nicer nib at the last pen show I attended. Again, try to get there at a time when it's not so busy and talk to Susan. Tell her that you're trying to find out what kind of nib works best for you. If she leads a seminar (I'm not sure if they have seminars at the Atlanta show) - all the better.
Have fun,
Oh! And go to www.richardspens.com and click on the "Reference Info" in the panel on the left. Scroll down to Pen Shows and read all the articles! Attending a pen show for the first time can be extremely overwhelming.
Elaine
Have fun,
Oh! And go to www.richardspens.com and click on the "Reference Info" in the panel on the left. Scroll down to Pen Shows and read all the articles! Attending a pen show for the first time can be extremely overwhelming.
Elaine
i am thankful for the assistance of the members at this forum, that being the FPN family. at one forum, i was made to feel stupid, redundant, and unwelcome because of the questions i asked. it mattered not that the considerations in choosing a $200 pen are different than a $10 pen, in that it is easier to toss $10 than $200 to most people.
i wanted opinions on characteristics of a given pen, whether it be light or heavy, long or short, thick in the barrel or not, how certain nibs are said to perform on that pen, and other such information. now again, i knew that the person who responded could only give me their subjective impressions, and what they might have heard or read, but it seems that the general consensus on the pen i chose was what i got. the nib was wetter than i was used to before, and as such, and given that i tend to write smaller, the fine nib is working great out of the box.
i hope this forum keeps what i think it's true purpose and identity is, and that is a place where lovers of pens, and those that wish they were (LOL!) can come and ask questions, share experiences and obsessions, and the like.
sam
i wanted opinions on characteristics of a given pen, whether it be light or heavy, long or short, thick in the barrel or not, how certain nibs are said to perform on that pen, and other such information. now again, i knew that the person who responded could only give me their subjective impressions, and what they might have heard or read, but it seems that the general consensus on the pen i chose was what i got. the nib was wetter than i was used to before, and as such, and given that i tend to write smaller, the fine nib is working great out of the box.
i hope this forum keeps what i think it's true purpose and identity is, and that is a place where lovers of pens, and those that wish they were (LOL!) can come and ask questions, share experiences and obsessions, and the like.
sam
I actually like Medium nibs and broad stubs and yes, I do write with stubs at work and take notes with them. I hate XF or anything close to them.
Nibs, indeed, are a matter of trial and error. I have a cabinet full of errors... :doh:
Trying a pen out under shop conditions has never worked for me: I am nervous then, and don’t know what I should write without feeling stupid. But that’s only a minor issue. More important: Dipping a pen never yields the results of a pen filled with ink. And sales persons hardly ever treat pens with the respect they deserve...
Generally, I prefer medium nibs now... Sheaffer pens, in most cases (at least, in more cases than other brands), give me what I’m looking for, and I buy them blindly. I also like stubs, except when it comes to speed. (Remind me that I have to buy a Sheaffer stub...)
Kees
Trying a pen out under shop conditions has never worked for me: I am nervous then, and don’t know what I should write without feeling stupid. But that’s only a minor issue. More important: Dipping a pen never yields the results of a pen filled with ink. And sales persons hardly ever treat pens with the respect they deserve...
Generally, I prefer medium nibs now... Sheaffer pens, in most cases (at least, in more cases than other brands), give me what I’m looking for, and I buy them blindly. I also like stubs, except when it comes to speed. (Remind me that I have to buy a Sheaffer stub...)
Kees
As I understand it, Sheaffer stubs are more like crip italics. they aren't "stubby".
Stubs can be witten with at speed, if you use a basic italic hand. This review was written at full speed.
Stubs can be witten with at speed, if you use a basic italic hand. This review was written at full speed.
Thanks for posting this sample, Kendall! My own experience with stubs is limited to some Watermans. I liked them (and my handwriting even became readable!), but in the end they slowed me down too much.
that is a red ink? i thought it was a brown. well, i will tell you that finding a pen that writes wet, well, i know know what the term wet means and i am liking the bexley in that regard tremendously. i mean, i get the depth of the florida blue that was not present in an xf waterman nib. i am so excited about the brown ink i bought here and it may get here today and then my pens from isellpens may come tomorrow at my home. i gotta get some ink at home to keep there so i can ink a pen there. i need a sticky to take home, lol
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