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Full Version: John R. Williamson by W.A. Sheaffer Pen Co.
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eelpie
Does anyone know this pen?

The screw-down cap appears to be gold-filled or plated, the nib is 14K gold and on the barrel is reads:

W.A. Sheaffer Pen Co.
Fort Madison, Iowa USA
Made in U.S.A.


I believe the barrel is Bakelite . . .

Thanks in advance for any information.
julikko
There are dozens of pens for that description. Photo, please?
ANM
I don't think Sheaffer made any pens out of bakelite.
eelpie
Three photos attached . . .
gregamckinney
This is a Crest model. The barrel is not bakelite.
Check this excellent reference for more info on the Crest.
Regards, greg
Glenn-SC
Sheaffer Triumph nibbed lever filler.

Pre 1948?
Johnny Appleseed
And the "John R. Williamson" part is probably the name of a former owner, who had the pen inscribed for them - it is not a Sheaffer model name, or anything of that nature.

John
eelpie
Is it unusual to engrave a name around the base of the cap, and is the pen at all collectible?
Johnny Appleseed
QUOTE (eelpie @ Oct 13 2008, 02:40 PM) *
Is it unusual to engrave a name around the base of the cap, and is the pen at all collectible?


Not that unusual, but - is the name engraved as if it was a signature? In which case, you may have some sort of Crest Autograph, if they made such a thing. Is there a number under the rest of the inscription on the barrel, something like 2000 or 1500? And is there an imprint somewhere on the cap that says "14K" (not "1/10 14K"?)

A crest is relatively "collectible", recognizing that "collectible" is a very fuzzy word - I happen to collect some low-end vintage pen that many people do not consider collectible. If you mean "valuable" then depending on condition, whether it is restored, etc. a crest can bring anywhere from $50-200. If it has a solid 14K cap, then it is worth much more.

John
eelpie
Beneath the name John R. Williamson it reads 1/10 14K Gold Filled.

There is no number beneath the Sheaffer information on the barrel.

The thing that stumps me is that the John R. Williamson name is so perfect around the entire base of the cap; I cannot imagine that being done anywhere but the factory.
ANM
If it is a signature or autograph name on the pen, it was done at the factory... or by Sheaffer, not some no name engraver. It is most likely an owner's name, not a model name. When Mr. Williamson bought the pen, he paid for his signature to be put on the pen, it was sent back to the factory with samples of his signature and Sheaffer had "forgers" copy his name on the pen. Around the base of the cap is where that was always done (as far as I know)
Maja
QUOTE (ANM @ Oct 13 2008, 05:04 PM) *
If it is a signature or autograph name on the pen, it was done at the factory... or by Sheaffer, not some no name engraver. It is most likely an owner's name, not a model name. When Mr. Williamson bought the pen, he paid for his signature to be put on the pen, it was sent back to the factory with samples of his signature and Sheaffer had "forgers" copy his name on the pen. Around the base of the cap is where that was always done (as far as I know)

Ooops!
I posted a link to this article http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer...tographPens.htm
but I just noticed that Johnny Appleseed had already provided a link to it in his post blush.gif

Regardless, your Sheaffer is a real beaut, eelpie! biggrin.gif
RevAaron
/me wonders why so many vintage pen listings on eBay say the pen is made of bakelite- doesn't matter if it's hard rubber, plastic, or celluloid- even the colorful stuff.

Perhaps the antique dealer equation is: Old + not Wood = Bakelite? smile.gif

Not dissing the OP, I just find it goofy as all get out.
penmanila
here's one explanation from http://www.worldint.com/science/bakelite.html:

"Bakelite is a synthetic resin chemically formulated and named after its Belgian inventor, Chemist L.H.Baekeland c.1909. It is pronounced 'Bay Ka Lite'. Originally it was used for molding items that were previously done of celluloid or hard rubber. One of the original uses was for pool balls. It is collectible in all its forms including jewelry, buttons, radio cases, lamps, dresser sets and many more items. It was used commercially for parts especially in electrical wiring. After bakelite and the introduction of so many other plastics and composition materials it was easy to confuse them all. People began to lump all plastics into one generic term 'Bakelite'."

QUOTE (RevAaron @ Oct 14 2008, 02:58 PM) *
/me wonders why so many vintage pen listings on eBay say the pen is made of bakelite- doesn't matter if it's hard rubber, plastic, or celluloid- even the colorful stuff.

Perhaps the antique dealer equation is: Old + not Wood = Bakelite? smile.gif

Not dissing the OP, I just find it goofy as all get out.

eelpie
QUOTE (RevAaron @ Oct 14 2008, 07:58 AM) *
/me wonders why so many vintage pen listings on eBay say the pen is made of bakelite- doesn't matter if it's hard rubber, plastic, or celluloid- even the colorful stuff.

Perhaps the antique dealer equation is: Old + not Wood = Bakelite? smile.gif

Not dissing the OP, I just find it goofy as all get out.

In as much as the pen appears to be in the 50-plus year old range, Bakelite is not such a goofy guess. Many types of hard plastics were not in common use until after WWII . . .
Johnny Appleseed
QUOTE (ANM @ Oct 13 2008, 05:04 PM) *
If it is a signature or autograph name on the pen, it was done at the factory... or by Sheaffer, not some no name engraver. It is most likely an owner's name, not a model name. When Mr. Williamson bought the pen, he paid for his signature to be put on the pen, it was sent back to the factory with samples of his signature and Sheaffer had "forgers" copy his name on the pen. Around the base of the cap is where that was always done (as far as I know)


But Autographs usually have solid 14K cap bands. This one says 1/10 14K, which means gold filled. I am not sure that this is
an autograph - is the name a printed name, or a signature? I would think it would have to be a factory product either way, as the gold-fill would need to be applied after the stamping, yes?


QUOTE (eelpie @ Oct 14 2008, 12:16 AM) *
QUOTE (RevAaron @ Oct 14 2008, 07:58 AM) *
/me wonders why so many vintage pen listings on eBay say the pen is made of bakelite- doesn't matter if it's hard rubber, plastic, or celluloid- even the colorful stuff.

Perhaps the antique dealer equation is: Old + not Wood = Bakelite? smile.gif

Not dissing the OP, I just find it goofy as all get out.

In as much as the pen appears to be in the 50-plus year old range, Bakelite is not such a goofy guess. Many types of hard plastics were not in common use until after WWII . . .


Yes, but Bakelite is almost unheard of in pen manufacture. There are a few pens from the 1917-1920 range, and they are fairly uncommon to very rare - The Parker LuckyCurve Bakelite pens with transparent barrels (rare), some Dunn pump-filler with transparent barrels (uncommon - they came in celluloid and bakelite versions, and I believe celluloid is more common), and I think either Waterman or Sheaffer made a Bakelite pen as well, which is rare as hens teeth. The only other manufacturer I know of that used Bakelite was Charles Ingersoll, and only from 1928-1930.

Bakelite is a very poor (or at least very difficult) material for pens because it is difficult to machine and it cracks when you look at it wrong - at least in the size and thickness used for making pens. Cellulose nitrate (celluloid) was a much better material and 99.9+% of all vintage pens were made from either hard rubber or cellulose nitrate, up until the acrylics (lucite) that began to dominate in the 1940s-1950s. Pen folks like us find it amusing how often ebay sellers claim pens are made of Bakelite because it reveals that they know so little about pens. (and I also mean no disrespect to OP - we know you came here looking for information).

QUOTE (penmanila @ Oct 14 2008, 12:03 AM) *
After bakelite and the introduction of so many other plastics and composition materials it was easy to confuse them all. People began to lump all plastics into one generic term 'Bakelite'."


I think this is the answer.

John
ANM
QUOTE (Johnny Appleseed @ Oct 14 2008, 05:13 PM) *
QUOTE (ANM @ Oct 13 2008, 05:04 PM) *
If it is a signature or autograph name on the pen, it was done at the factory... or by Sheaffer, not some no name engraver. It is most likely an owner's name, not a model name. When Mr. Williamson bought the pen, he paid for his signature to be put on the pen, it was sent back to the factory with samples of his signature and Sheaffer had "forgers" copy his name on the pen. Around the base of the cap is where that was always done (as far as I know)


But Autographs usually have solid 14K cap bands. This one says 1/10 14K, which means gold filled. I am not sure that this is
an autograph - is the name a printed name, or a signature? I would think it would have to be a factory product either way, as the gold-fill would need to be applied after the stamping, yes?
John


I am aware that Autograph and Signature PENS have solid gold bands. I did not refer to the PEN as such but rather the name as being an autograph or signature engraving. I was pointing out that it could (probably was) done at the factory, not that the pen was an autograph pen. Sorry for that misunderstanding. Edit: plus I do have an signature pen that has no gold content marking on the band itself.
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