I have a Sailor 1911 older style, full size with a fine nib. I love the pen but dislike the ink capacity of the converter. If I get a custom 823 in black it appears it will look very similiar to my Pilot (Black with gold trim) and maybe only a bit bigger. Other than ink capacity is there any reason to choose the custom 823 over my Pilot 1911?

I'm concerned that I will have duplicated a pen rather than adding a significantly different pen.

Your thoughts?

Is the Pilot 1911 the same as a Sailor 1911? If, so, then I'd recommend the 823. It has a larger nib which is very responsive. The filling system gets a lot of press and it does hold more than a converter. But the nib is really the reason to get this pen, I think.
Tom

Tom -

Ooops....i edited my original post you were indeed correct, I meant Sailor 1911.

Thanks for your comments.

I don't have a fine, but the medium nib in my 823 is far better than the M nibs in my Sailors, and just as smooth as my naginata togi MF nib. The 823 IMO is a better pen all around, and it's even more interesting because it's a semi-demonstrator.

Dear Dr Grace,

I am interested to get a 828, I wonder where I should go looking for one. Is Fleabay (oops, ebay) a good choice?

The Custom 823 is also available in brown and clear, if the black is too similar, but even the black is transparent so there will be a subtle difference

I'd go Pilot 823. One could say that I already did. I tried two Sailor 1911 w/ Medium nibs and it just didn't connect, the nib didn't cut the mustard with me and how I write. I've been extraordinarily happy with the Pilot 823 though, and try as I may I've not been able to find anything I don't like.

The black one is translucent in a nice way. When it's full, you wouldn't know it's translucent, but it's easy to tell how much ink is left when it starts to go down. Originally, I was set on getting a brown one, but an opportunity arose to try out and buy a black one and I couldn't be happier with it. I've not seen a brown one in person, but from what I've read, they're more transparent than the black one. There is also a completely clear 823.

In some ways, it isn't a very different pen. But then again, I think most pens aren't all that different in the end so YMMV. If you've the money and the interest, go for it! Sell the one you don't like if they're too similar. They are similar in that they're both great writers, terrific tools and not novelty or specialized pens.

I've one with a broad nib, and it's line is at what I'd define as what a broad should be. Some western mediums are about the same size, but only the widest and wettest. That is, don't apply the usual Japanese rule of B (jp) = M (eu).

Aaron

Yes, there are several Asian sellers on eBay that I'd trust for the 823, like engeika or ujuku. Sometimes there are auctions starting at a low price that end quite favorably, other times the only choice is a "buy it now". This pen is not marketed in the USA, for reasons I don't understand.

I bought my Custom 743 from Richie at http://www.cyberpens.co.uk/ as opposed to ebay. He ships to the US for free and gives great after-sale service. His prices are often lower than those listed on his site and he usually can get items not shown on his site.

Sailor gets a lot of attention by having the Nagahara family legacy still active and Mr. Nagahara's wonderful nib tuning and crafting skills. No doubt his special nib designs also instill quite a bit of awe. On the other hand, Pilot keeps a lower profile. They've got quite a number of wonderful nibs that you just simply stumble upon by accident and realize that they are on par with Sailor's top of the line nibs. Pilot's legacy of innovation and continuing diversity of products has made me a permanent fan.

That brings up a good point. If you buy from a Japanese seller and later have problems with the 823, you're usually out of luck with Pilot USA; all they can do is ship the pen back to Japan. On another thread, someone had a broken cap, and to replace it would cost almost as much as a new pen. I'm assuming that if you buy from Richie, he'd be able to sort out any problems later for less money.

is there anyone who could give a few writing samples to compare 823 nib sizes to common nibs of other pens, say pelikan or parker? I'm inclined to lean toward a fine which nibs.com calls .35mm for the 823. The same source indicates Pelikan fines at .40mm.

Thanks

Randy

Pilot measurements on nibs.com do not apply to the 823, which they don't carry. Pilot nibs differ from model to model.

I have an 823 F and a Sailor 1911 MF (.36mm). The 823 writes (and looks) finer, so probably similar to the Sailor F (.30mm). Sorry, but I don't have the time to post samples right now. But the differences are quite obvious under a loupe. The 823 F is clearly finer than .36 or even .35mm. I'm very happy with that pen. But then I'm happy with the Sailor MF as well.

Robert - good stuff...thanks. if you get a chance in the next couple of days to post samples i'd appreciate it.

Randy