Hi,

I watched this auction on eBay and was stunned by the final price. Was this because a couple of people took a bidding war too far or is there something special about this pen?

I know the pen from Nakazono's book and I have a similar pen in black with a 21K nib... it's not that special.

What gives?

/Woody

Oh dear... that was definitely taking the bidding war too far. More dollars than sense, I'm afraid.

Yup, that's a weird one.

Russ is an excellent advertiser! He makes the pen sound incredible and rare in the description and the photos are really good...

IIRC he used to have a statement in his MYU adverts that is was so very rare and he may never have another one for sale...

Then it changed to this:
This model is very popular now, but has been out of production for over 25 years, and has become increasingly difficult to find. Don't let it get away in the final 5 seconds to some sniping program.

And more recently this:
These pens were only produced in Japan for the domestic market, and have not been produced for around 25 years, and are in high demand now around the world. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the remaining supply of new old stock MYUs and Murexes in Japan will run out in a matter of time. The pool may look wide right now, but it can't be very deep.

I wonder how many have to be sold on eBay before the story changes again?

"Oh dear" - yeah, that's about right! It a pocket pen people!

Yes, it was far too much for a white plastic pen, I'm afraid. Folks, please don't hesitate to post a question in this forum before you purchase or bid - it pays to be an informed buyer! A pen with a 3,500Y price sticker (~$35) is not worth $400 today.

My Sailor stainless Egyptian hieroglyph model and my Sailor Arabesque (both truly rare pens) didn't even cost that much. (The Egyptian was a tad pricey - but who has seen another? Meanwhile, I have several eBay and Yahoo photos of those Sailor 23K models in my image archives - they come up often enough!)

The sticker price was 5000円, but still... $390?

Over the years I must have sold over 100 Sailor pens with 23K nibs and another of 24K, pictures of which were posted here on FPN some short time ago. To say Sailor pens with 23K nibs are "unique' is an outright lie and this seller knows better.

As the saying goes, "There's a sucker born every minute," there are those who never cease to to avail themselves of mans fallibility. The buyers, too, are complicit in this swindle as they are dummies. No. They are DUMMIES!!! To be so stupid and unaware.

Soon will come the buyers remorse. He(She)'ll receive their pen and look it over with their strongest magnifying glass, stick in one of their two cartridges (wait until they discover converters are not available), and scratch accross some paper. Without any doubt they will soon question their purchase. Was this really worth $400? Some have said that prices on eBay are the 'market prices.' That's another heap of hype.

Maybe they'll come over to FPN and gloat about their new vintage Japanese pen with the unique 23K nib. I sincerely hope so. In their pen using/collecting life this would soon be their most beneficial lesson. The learning curve for some is steep and, for others it is almost impossible. The lesson here is to do your homework and caveat emptor.

Good luck and happy hunting in your pen efforts. See you all amongst the chaos at Yahoo Japan.

just outrageous.....I think Stan's post says it all
No more comments

Nikolaos

I have a suspicion that the seller and buyer (probably a dummy) are in collusion to drive up the market price and customer 'hunger' for future similar offers.

Except the MYU Blackstripe - 5,000Y sticker $400+ selling price

or the MYU Whitestripe - 5,000Y sticker $700 Billion bailout price

Is tokyo_russ a Japanese living in Japan, or an American living in Japan, or none of these? His advertising, from what I hear on FPN, sounds really umm...fantastic as in fully of fantasy.

Possibly... but it depends on who is buying! I would never pay that much for a MYU BS... not unusual enough a pen for my taste.

But if someone has to have one... I guess people will pay anything.

He's an American living in Tokyo. I've purchased a couple of pens from him and he seemed like a good seller. Answered questions, shipped promptly. His listings make for interesting reading. Before bidding $390, I would do some checking first to compare what a reasonable price would be. A fool & his money.
Russ has a website: http://www.stutler.cc/

Hi,

Why doesn't someone send Russ an email to let him know? I'm quite busy now, so I can't send an email, but I'm sure he will be willing to listen.

Dillon

Um...to let him know what? That he's making some serious money selling pens like this? Pretty sure he already knows.

No, his error in mentioning that it is rare.

Dillon

Saying something is rare or unique should always be taken with a grain of salt. I can say a pilot petite is rare because I haven't seen it in any bookshops around here. But he did say that it's the first 23k white gold nib he's seen. That, I'm sure is fictional.

When I first read this thread, I thought that the nib in question was a 23K Yellow gold nib. I looked at the auction page and it looked white, but I thought that might be from the photography and lighting. The nib simply read 23K. If the nib is 23K Yellow gold then yes, I agree that Russ was laying the used car salesman spiel on a little too thick. You do not see 23k yellow gold pens every day, but I would not call them rare. I have sold hundreds of Sailor 23K Yellow gold pens over the years, but I can not recall seeing a single 23k White gold nib? perhaps my memory is cloudy with age... I have seen tons of14k and 18K white gold pens, but a 23k White gold? Does anyone here have one?

In any case, whether it is 23K yellow or white, $400 is a lot to spend on such a pen.

Stay Well
Dr. Ron Dutcher

I wonder if Russ reads FPN? The tag line on the MYU is now These pens were only produced in Japan for the domestic market, and have not been produced for 25 years, and are in high demand now around the world.

Does he read FPN?

Hey! Maybe if we make fun of him enough, he'll write something about us.

Sound familiar? *coughbenzcough*

Anybody who has dealt and talked with Russ knows he's as honorable a seller as they come. Instead of publically crucifying him (like they do to people on Pentrace), why doesn't one of the "upset" people contact him and find out what's really going on? It's so easy to belittle somebody thru the internet rather than just asking that simple question. "Why so much?"

I don't blame Russ at all since the name of the game on eBay is get as much as you can by talking up your buyer audience...and he did his job quite well, might be some Ringling Bros./Barnum & Bailey Circus blood in him, who knows! If anything, the buyer and the last minute "bidder-uppers" should be castigated for letting it get so high and ruining the market price curve. That's something no seller in his right mind is going to do.

Shoot first, ask questions later...seems like a ridiculous and dangerous way to go about it...

DOC

Agree with Doc, mRuss is an honest upright seller. Fleabay's the villain....................

No... Russ is just particularly good at "pimping pens." He has this way, you know? The newbie gets enticed, thinking they've found something incredible that they may NEVER see again. Check the history--hmmm, not much. Could be rare, or might not be. Do I want to take a chance? "Do I feel lucky?" Look at the buyer. I've seen this person bidding on a few auctions I've watched recently... they're infatuated with Japanese pens, especially steel black striped ones. They just started this month and have been on quite the buying spree. That person is a fool, and once again Russ gets to reap the benefits.

Yes, I agree that Russ is a reliable seller. He is fastidious about packing things properly and shipping them quickly, as well as providing excellent photos and details in his auctions. You have to give him that. But his language... he really distorts the perception of value in his descriptions. And that I don't like, especially given his proclamation of following Christianity (which does describe lying--albeit extreme exaggeration--as a sin). So I bought from him a couple of times, and rarely since. There are sometimes deals. I've seen a few pens that end up selling low on his auctions, simply because there was the serendipity of insufficient bidders. But that is highly uncommon.

I see nothing untoward and certainly nothing vaguely dishonest/dishonourable about the way he goes about his business. Anyone who buys a pen (or anything else for that matter) on Ebay at a vastly inflated price just because it's described as rare clearly has more money than sense...... I wish I had some to sell.....

I have really enjoyed reading Russ' articles about pens in Japan and have absolutely nothing against him - he's the consummate salesman and I find his sales pitch entertaining. Of course the educated consumer always makes inquiries beyond the salesman's pitch and those that don't may pay more than they should. Caveat emptor...

Anyway, given this particular pen, has anyone else seen a WG 23k nib on a short? If someone else has 27 of these pens then fair enough, it was over sold, but so far no one has said that they have one - could be a really unique pen and worth 10x the price paid for the rarity value. I mean, if a MYU black stripe goes for $600 then why not...

The question is: when does false advertising become an ethical problem. Where does one draw the line.

It's not as simple as one may seem to make it.

I don't know about his Christianity thing but for me, what this thread brings up is the question of ethical behaviour and false advertising.

Maybe some of us knows him well (not me) and may feel he can be given some leeway in terms of ethics. On the other hand, one also has to think about how false advertising sets up traps for those who really did not know better.

Ethical behaviour & false advertising.

Whoa, interesting diversion this thread has taken. I made the original post only because I was curious if there was something special about the pen.

I have bought a handful of pens from Russ over the years. I have certainly paid a lot for some and gotten good deals on a few. He does lay it on thick but I have not seen anything in his sales that is an outright lie. I think he gets higher prices for his pens because he has been around a long time, puts a lot into the ads and his service is excellent. This has earned him repeat buyers and a lot of watchers on his auctions.

I had issues with the first pen I ever bought from him and and handled the problem immediately without any complaints. I stay away from his auctions these days because the bidding wars usually go beyond what I am willing to pay. But if he has something I really want I won't hesitate to buy from him again.

/Woody

The original thread intent is to try understanding how this seemingly not-so-rare pen went for an exorbitant sum. The seller made the following statements:

Russ: Fountain pens with 23K gold nibs are almost unheard of. - FALSE. They are well heard of. I don't know what he bases this on.
Russ: I've sold a few 23K yellow gold nib pens, but I believe this is the first 23K white gold nib I have seen. - EXAGGERATION. He has seen more pens than most of us (outside of Stan and Ron) will probably see in our lifetimes. I've seen him sell quite a number of 23K yellow nibs, not "a few". I've not paid attention as to whether any were white gold. But again, he has framed it like all of these are rare and thus the white gold nib even more exclusive.

He has also said in a number of his auctions I've seen over the years, statements like "I rarely see these, but managed to find this one. Who knows if I'll ever see another? Don't lose your chance." Meanwhile, the same pen went through his auctions a couple of times earlier in the year, followed by more after that very auction.

Anyway, I won't belabor it. I'm just speculating that based on his tone and the two novice pen bidders who drove the price up, they believed this pen was absurdly rare when in fact it may well not be. This is what I feel likely explains the stratospheric price.

I didn't bid on this pen, but when I saw it I had a feeling it would fetch a high price, not because of any rarity, real or perceived, to the nib, but because it's an all-white Sailor with silver-color trim, the styling looking somewhat reminiscent of the ProGears but in a pocket pen version. Just a week or so before the sale a certain thread in this forum generated a LOT of drooling and envy over some similarly appealing pens. Gorgeous, really. And I haven't been around THAT long, but I don't know if I've ever seen an all-white pocket pen; all black, and a white barrel, metal cap, yes; but I don't remember all white. So my thought was that it has not so much to do with whether the nib may be rare, but its looks. I figured there was going to be at least one someone who fell head over heels and be willing to pay a lot for it.

That is a good point of where does advertisement end and honest information begin.


Kurt

This seems a bit overblown. He doesn't even say the word "rare." He says it's the only one he's seen with a white gold 23k nib, which could very likely be true. Other than that, he says "unique," and that "Fountain pens with 23K gold nibs are almost unheard of." Even Dr. Dutcher thinks he may not have ever seen a pen with a 23K white gold nib. That doesn't mean it's worth $400, but that was the perrogative of the bidders.

I'd be careful in calling either Russ or eBay a villian. If you want to play that game, things will get ugly, fast. What is so "precious" about MB's plastic? What makes any "high-end" or gaudy LE pen truly *worth* $1000? It isn't the cost of labor and materials, I can tell you that much. Are all of those pen companies villianous?

At least when buying from a reliable vendor on eBay you have even more flexibility and choice than when buying through a regular store- at least in an auction like this one I can plug in the whatever subjective value I think the pen has and let things play out. That doesn't mean people don't do stupid and impulsive things on eBay, but that isn't Russ's fault. The vintage pens listings on eBay with well-done photos of overly polished pens always get bid up higher than the listings with blurry photos and a one-line descriptions, even for very mundane and common pens. Is that false advertising?

I say no. Perhaps it is someone being a sucker, but they're hardly being suckered. I think MYU hits the nail on the head with that one.

Anyone who seriously thinks there is an ethical issue here, please actually go read the listing and let us know what sounds unethical, or what in the description is false advertising.

But- none of this was the OPs original question! The answer to that is "nothing?"

As an aside- how does a 23k gold nib write? That is, does the alloy made of 96% gold make for a firmness beyond even a Triumph nib?

Aaron

Well, even Ron thinks he hasn't seen one of these made of white gold, and if he has a white gold 23k nib is rare enough that he doesn't know if he's seen one. It's obviously not something Ron cames across every week.

A white vs yellow gold nib might not be an important distinction to you and me. But there are thousands of examples like that in pen collecting, and most of them are of no importance to me and thus command no greater subjective cash value to me.

I do think it's a bit slimy to imply that every black striped MYU sold on eBay is the last one that'll ever be found... but that kind of exaggeration is part of the market, and it doesn't take a lawyer to see through the B.S. If some newbie Japanese pen fanatic has gone a bit bonkers, than he's got more dollars than sense (as someone else said), that's his deal.

Aaron

This is an interesting question. I would imagine 23k gold to be softer than 21k so if you're a bit heavy handed you may bend the nib Not sure on this one because I have never had a 23k gold nib before

I guess I've just been used to so many other pen sellers that don't over-hype their wares. I had no intention of bashing any particular seller, only to air my disapproval of some selling practices. Anyway, nothing more to say. Moving on.

“Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."



Anyone remember who said that?

I don't know about you guys but the more I look at this pen, the more I want one! Anyone out there have a bead on a Sailor short that looks like this? A black/rh one would be great. Of particular attraction to me (aside from the Rhodium trim) is the band around the cap with Sailor on it. I can't say I've seen another short that has this. Then pen also seems to be a bit thicker than your average short...

I think this thread has ran it's course, and it's time to move on. Thread closed.