Does “bulletproof” equal archival?

It seems that in addition to being PH neutral, resistance to a lot of the things that Noodler's bulletproof inks withstand would be the same things that would make an ink archival.

I believe the eternals are marketed as archival, while the bulletproofs focus on protection from fraud (things like chemical tampering/bleaching) but still have the archival properties.

IOW's, the bulletproofs can be used that way but it would make more sense to buy eternal at a fifth of the cost (and lots more color varieties).

Edit: By eternal, I'm talking the near bulletproofs like Zhivago and blue-black.

Certainly "bulletproof" is archival if used on archival paper. (The ink cannot last longer than the paper!) As for "eternal," I am not sure that all are resistant to UV or to fading because of age. They are water resistant, however.

What "Eternal" or near-bulletproof means in most cases is that the ink contains a few parts Noodler's Black mixed with another non-permanent color (Zhivago is Green-Black, Air Corps is Blue-Black, etc.). I think the cheaper Bulletproofs like Black, Iraqi Indigo, Legal Lapis, and the Russian colors make the best-value archivals, with Black of course being the same price as other Eternal or non-permanent colors. Some of my favorites are the Eternals, though, like Green Marine and Navy Blue. I think behavior-wise, these inks are the best compromise between non-permanent and bulletproof, and the Black parts of these inks will certainly remain legible forever. The Eternals seem to have great shading!

I, too, would be interested in an authoritative answer.

In the context of Noodler's inks, 'Bulletproof' and 'Eternal' mean two different things.

'Bulletproof' means that a component in the ink binds with the cellulose in the paper, and can't be removed chemically.
'Eternal' means that the dyes in the ink don't break down quickly over time due to the action of UV, oxygen and the like.

As far as I can see, neither one implies the other.
We know that the 'Eternal' inks don't have the 'Bulletproof' property, otherwise they would be marketed as such.
However, we don't know if the 'Bulletproof' inks have the 'Eternal' property.

It may very well be that while a 'Bulletproof' ink bonds itself to the cellulose, over time the dye may fade making it not archival. But, like many, I am assuming that this is not so.

Direct from Noodler's own website, this should answer your question:

# "Eternal" refers to any Noodler's Ink that resists the effects of time - moisture, humidity, UV light, acids, water exposure, and many common detergents such as dish soaps and household ammonia, as well as alcohols and acetone (which conventional ball point pens have no resistance to - often rinsing off a newly written check within 8 seconds of being washed with acetone). Many Noodler's inks such as "eternal" and "bulletproof" inks are made with the ideal of reaching out as far into immortality as the written word permits us to reach - the only way to speak to future generations remains the written word durably made upon the page (a VCR tape is simply not as durable or as universally readable through time!).
# "Bulletproof" refers to any Noodler's Ink that resists all the known tools of a forger, UV light, UV light wands, bleaches, alcohols, solvents, petrochemicals, oven cleaners, carpet cleaners, carpet stain lifters, and of course...they are also waterproof once permitted to dry upon cellulose paper. Some inks are more bulletproof than others - generally in descending order (most bulletproof with the most testing - to less bulletproof): blacks, blues, yellows, invisible ("blue ghost" and "White Whale"), greens, browns, purples, reds....all are equally bulletproof with one exception: the resistance to strong industrial bleaches to the point where the paper structure itself decomposes. Reds are prone to more fading when exposed to strong bleaches (sometimes fading to a yellow) than the other colors.
# All Noodler's Polar Inks are also classed as "Bulletproof", as well as such inks as "Lexington Gray", "Black", "Heart of Darkness", "Golden Year of the Pig", "Hunter Green", "Luxury Blue", "X-Feather", and "Fox Red". Worldwide (including custom issue inks specific to certain countries or individual retailers) there are now more than 220 "bulletproof" and partially bulletproof (mixed ink formulations) Noodler's Inks. References to ink properties are generally printed upon the labels (with the exception of "X-Feather" - which is a white label issue with very little text).

In fact, this brings to light answers to many of the questions asked in this topic! And Pendemonium for one lists all their eternal Russian, British, and regular eternal inks as bulletproof.

Bulletproof inks are intended to be archival and then some. It depends on how you define archival. Some definitions are quite loose, meaning only that an ink will not fade over time under nominal conditions, while other definitions require the ink to be indelible and highly resistant to extreme conditions. I guess we could say that bulletproof ≥ archival.



I highly doubt that these terms are used in a consistent manner, even by Noodler's. However, I do have some sense of the hierarchy of Noodler's inks in terms of archival properties and resistance to fraud:

1) Black, Aquamarine, Legal Lapis, and Legal Blue are so impervious that even extended exposure to alcohol, bleach, and sunlight do not affect them in the least (except to the extent that the paper itself is damaged). There may be other inks like this, but these are the ones of which I am aware.

2) Other eternals and bulletproofs should stick around mightily but may change color or fade somewhat under strong chemical attack. This is usually good enough to be considered archival, which is implied by the term eternal.

3) The inks that Pendemonium calls "near bulletproof" and Swisher Pens calls SwishMix or "waterproof", which are really just mixes of bulletproof and standard dyes. The most accurate term for them, in my opinion, would be "partially-bulletproof". Note that Swisher Pens has a separate line of exclusive "waterproof" inks that are fully cellulose-reactive eternal/bulletproof Noodler's inks--this separation between marketing and physical reality obviously adds to the confusion.

4) The standard inks, which promise nothing with regard to archival properties and resistance to fraud.



Huh? Bulletproof Black costs the same as Noodler's standard inks (which are very competitively priced), while most other bulletproof or eternal inks cost less than twice as much per volume (only about 50% more in many cases). The exceptions are Luxury Blue, Hunter Green, and Fox Red which generally cost about three times as much as the Black or standard inks per volume.



Oh...see what I mean about how the terms are used? The partially-bulletproof inks do indeed cost the same as the standard inks, but most of them will change or lose all of their color when exposed to water, and I'm not sure about their resistance to UV exposure (just assume that they will fade fairly rapidly under sunlight).



Don't take these terms at face value. Actually, I've never seen the term eternal used in this manner before (that is, as separate from the binding with cellulose). The inks that Noodler's itself labels as eternal are in fact cellulose-reactive just like the bulletproof inks, and some bulletproof inks are stronger than others. My bottle of Aquamarine--one of the strongest if not the very strongest Noodler's ink--is not even labeled bulletproof, it's labeled "contract ink".



The terminology cannot be depended upon, really. What we need is a list that describes the properties of each of Noodler's inks individually. We could then lump them into groups and name them consistently, but that's not the case with the terms we're using today.

To make things even more interesting, there's a "security contract ink"--Prime of the Commons Blue-Black (Niche Pens exclusive, no affiliation). It's listed as 100% bulletproof, but if it's exposed to bleach, the ink turns blue (it looks very similar to Tahitian Pearl or Legal Lapis normally--perhaps a touch greener or bluer, with more shading, depending on the paper). I haven't had time to experiment with this ink and bleach yet, but the next time I clean my bathroom, some paper is going for a little dip....

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but these are pretty broad, generic definitions. Any given Noodler's ink could be both "eternal" and "bulletproof" at the same time--and I think that these qualities really go hand-in-hand for all of the cellulose-reactive inks--but some inks may be labeled as one or the other for marketing purposes. Note that "bulletproof" is cited within the very definition of "eternal" and that the definition of "bulletproof" allows for weaker inks that may be affected by strong bleaches. While these definitions answer our questions regarding the spirit of the two terms, they really tell us nothing about the properties of each specific ink, regardless of how it is labeled.

The rough hierarchy I wrote about in my last post combined with the definition of "bulletproof" quoted above pretty much sum up what I think we know regarding how indelible and permanent certain Noodler's inks are. It seems that "bulletproof" and "eternal" could be used interchangeably to refer to inks containing only cellulose-reactive dyes, while terms like "near-bulletproof" and "partially-bulletproof" refer to inks that also contain standard dyes that will wash away with water. In addition, regarding the latter I'm only convinced that the partially-bulletproof inks that have a black component contain any bulletproof, cellulose-reactive dyes at all, due to a current lack of rigorous testing. Many inks, not just Noodler's, will leave some kind of remnant when splashed with or soaked in water for a short-enough period of time, but this doesn't mean that any of their dyes will necessarily stand up to a check forger.



Some of these were labeled as "eternal" at one point, too, so I guess they all have both qualities, although some of us tend to call only the strongest, most chemical-resistant inks "bulletproof" (note that the official definition allows for a wider range of chemical resistance).



Ah, see, even 100% bulletproof can sometimes only mean that an ink cannot be completely removed, even though it can be affected by chemicals. Granted, it was deliberate in this case in order to aid the detection of attempted fraud, but the ink is described as 100% bulletproof nonetheless. Other eternal/bulletproof inks (e.g. Polar Blue, Hunter Green) will change in response to a wider variety of strong chemicals, but most people would therefore consider them less than 100% bulletproof, or not bulletproof at all but just eternal, depending on their individual sense of the definitions.

To everyone, I would suggest not worrying so much about terminology, and simply considering anything called eternal or bulletproof a rather indelible ink with archival properties. For those who are truly into this sort of thing, Black, Aquamarine, Legal Lapis, and Legal Blue are the strongest known inks from Noodler's, as they are all based on the black and cyan dyes, and not even the Peanut Butter Jar Of Unspeakable Horror could faze these two dyes (most of the bulletproof remnants of the test are either black or cyan, and Legal Lapis--which is really just black + cyan--was unaffected). In addition, I've had writing samples of three of these inks sitting in a window exposed to sunlight all day long for months, and I have yet to see any fading. Even the Sharpie ink has faded noticeably, and my samples of standard blue fountain pen inks had faded to a pale, barely legible green after just a few days.

Not really--just strip out the excess words: eternal=resists moisture, humidity, UV light, acids, water exposure, and many common detergents such as dish soaps and household ammonia, as well as alcohols and acetone; bulletproof=resists all the known tools of a forger, UV light, UV light wands, bleaches, alcohols, solvents, petrochemicals, oven cleaners, carpet cleaners, carpet stain lifters,...waterproof. Basically, the "eternals" resist normal stuff, but react to some more obscure sovents that the "bulletproofs" are resistant too. All bulletproof inks are also eternal.

What you say certainly makes sense with regard to the definitions per se, and those should be the definitions that people use, but the problem is how the inks are labeled by Noodler's, various retailers, and consumers. Noodler's doesn't always use the terms consistently and sometimes uses one-off terms like "contract ink". Pendemonium tends to label all cellulose-reactive inks "Bullet-proof" even though some of them change color when exposed to bleach; some examples from the Peanut Butter Jar test are Polar Blue, Eternal Brown (labeled by Noodler's as "Eternal" but labeled by Pendemonium as "Bullet-proof" next to its code), and Hunter Green. Swisher Pens calls their bulletproof and eternal inks "waterproof" (even the truly bulletproof Aquamarine, which Noodler's labels "contract ink" instead of bulletproof). Finally, some consumers apparently use "eternal" to refer to partially-bulletproof inks, which is new to me, but there you have it. This is why I threw my hands up in surrender and suggested that people not trust the terminology used by various entities as being specific about the characteristics of each individual ink. If somebody wants to know about a specific ink, all they have to do is ask and hopefully somebody else will know the answer.

Earlier, I had mentioned that a list of each of Noodler's cellulose-reactive inks and its properties would be useful--either that or several simple lists under various categories. I'd be willing to research and maintain such a list, but honestly I don't own many inks and don't plan to, so I feel somewhat less than qualified (since I can't test many inks myself without great effort). But if nobody else in a better position wants to do this, then I'll do what I can.



That's my understanding of Noodler's intention, as well, and if it's true (it is according to my tests of the most bulletproof inks), then hopefully we have answered the original poster's question. I'm sorry if I added any confusion to the issue, but I just don't see a consistent and accurate use of the terminology.

I think "contract ink" is used only for exclusives, and the retailers get to call their own inks whatever they want. If you see the ink listed by Noodler's you can use the secret decoder ring to figure it out; if it's an exclusive you need to try to pry the info out of the retailer. I think part of the problem is simply that Noodler's spends more time on the ink and not so much time on the web site.


Note that the definition for "bulletproof" says that some inks may change color when bleached (especially red, which seems to be a component of the eternal brown [based on my cleanup napkins]); they're just supposed to not disappear when bleached.

Honestly, I don't see any confusion with the definition's Nathan has provided for Noodler's inks. It is quite clear that both bulletproof and eternal inks can be archival and that depending on the shade of color some are more bulletproof than others, but all have bulletproof properties. The question of the OP was not which inks are bulletproof, or eternal but if those inks considered "bulletproof" can be archival, and I believe Nathan's definition answers this question and details the differences bulletproof inks may have when exposed to certain chemicals.

Oh...you're right. I might have goofed up my description, but the observation I was trying to make was that Pendemonium apparently does not have an "Eternal" label placed above any of the product codes--the only types of Noodler's ink listed are "Bullet-proof", "Near Bullet-proof", and regular (with no label). If there is to be a use for the term "Eternal" that isn't merely academic or for marketing, one might expect that there would be some inks that are Eternal but not Bulletproof. While Pendemonium does not carry the entire line of Noodler's inks, it has one of the largest selections, and none of them are labeled "Eternal". The question is whether their labeling is correct and backed up by Noodler's testing (independent testing would be better but only a limited amount of rigorous testing has been done). If Pendemonium is correct and furthermore all of Noodler's fully cellulose-reactive inks are likewise Bulletproof, then the term "Eternal", while meaningful in and of itself, would be redundant. The problem is that we just don't know. It certainly would be nice to get an answer straight from Noodler's, but Nathan doesn't appear to be around at the moment (I'll remember to ask when he pops in again).

Additionally, I think there should be a term with a stricter definition of chemical resistance than Bulletproof that is applied to inks that won't change color when exposed to any chemical that won't also destroy the paper: something like Bombproof or Adamantine.

Pendemonium does label the Russian and British inks as eternal in the main descriptions of the group of inks more so then individual product codes, and though they may miss a few others known to have eternal properties such as Fox Red, Hunter Green, Luxury Blue, Blue Ghost, and Whiteness of the Whale, they are all listed as bulletproof. But if you look at the image where Pendemonium translates what is written on the Russian Ink labels "Bulletproof on paper " is part of the text. Bulletproof is clearly seen on the labels of the British line of inks too. Pendemonium is not the only one to label the other eternal inks bulletproof, as Pear Tree Pens, and Swisher Pens both label them as such. It is clear that it appears that Nathan has determined them to be bulletproof more so than individual retailers. But again, what is important to the OP is whether these inks are archival, and clearly many of them are good inks to use for this quality.

The question came up because I was asked to include some pieces in an art exhibit. I was wondering if Noodler’s Bulletproof inks might be considered archival in that context. Maybe it's a dumb question, but “archival” in an artistic context isn't necessarily the same as “can't be removed from a check.” Given all of things that the ink is resistant to I would think that normal atmospheric conditions and possible light exposure would be no sweat, but I just thought that I would ask.

In the context that you need the inks for, the bulletproof Noodler's inks would be perfect. And congrats on having your artwork included in the art exhibit!!