After reading about the Black n' Red products I find myself wondering which particular ones they like.

I picked up a notebook identified as C67009U, 8 1/4" X 5 7/8" Ruled, 24lb premium paper. Made in the EU. It's spiral bound with red wire. It came with an elastic that was bound by eyelets on the back cover.

I found the eyelets and elastic made the pad unusable for writing. The eyelets and elastic were so thick that the writing surface was not flat above these points. I quickly removed the elastic and eyelets with a pair of needle nose pliers. The paper itself seems usable but I have not yet used for any length of time.

After removing the eyelets the back cover is still not quite as flat as I would like it to be and of course I now have two holes in the back cover.

I purchased it at an Office Depot store in CT, USA.

I have seen a few threads on Black n' Red but I am never quite sure which product people like or even the country they bought it in. The Black n' Red site clearly indicates a different product line for North American than what they sell to the rest of the world.


Danielle

I use one of these for small notes at home. I don't find the eyelets or elastic a problem at all. Even sitting here on my desk the eyelets are at a part of the back cover - the very top and very bottom that I wouldn't be writing on that part of the page and they don't lift the pages at all - although I guess they might when I get to the last few..... The paper is good to write on, although it tends to create quite a wet line with most of my pens - but then that's what I want. I like it. I'm in the UK.

Danielle,
I just recently purchased the identical B&R notebook here in Arkansas and have no issues with it. Matter of fact, I like it very much. I am using it with my Waterman Charleston. As soon as I get my Scheaffer Snorkel and Targa back from repair, I will see how they do.

Jim

I've got the 8 l/2 x 11 B&R notebook. It has the elastic band and doesn't sit quite flat at the top and bottom outside corners, but that hasn't been a problem for me. The paper has more texture than Rhodia notebooks, but at a slightly cheaper price than Rhodia's, it's a great value. My fine and medium nibbed pens work well, with no bleeding or feathering (Private Reserve inks). They're a great all-around notebook.

I have the same spiral wire, poly cover BnR that you tried, in both A5 and A4 sizes. I love them. At the front of the notebook the eyelets don't trouble me. They might on the last few pages. I don't really use the elastic, so I guess if it bothers me, nearer the end of the book, I'll cut it off.

There is also a casebound style and a hardcover twin wire. I haven't used those yet. In fact, I looked at them, and didn't like them as well as the poly cover.

The "American" line is mostly a subset of the UK line, many fewer styles, but most have the same part or model numbers. However, there are a few unique products (which I haven't used, or even found): US Letter size pads, and top-bound notebooks in US letter and steno sizes.

By the way, if you have Rite-Aid drug stores in your area, they carry a couple of BnR models at MUCH better prices than Staples, OfficeMax, etc, but the selection IS more limited..

I have a few of them and yes, the eyelets mess me up as well. I have one of their hard cover in the same size you purchased and it's much nicer. But... the spirals are yet another problem. They are quite annoying to negotiate and I think I'll be moving to a bound journal that can lie flat once I'm done with the B-n-R. I love the paper but if I'm annoyed while I write, it sort of defeats the relaxation goal.

After a few trials of other journals, I use the BnR A5, as my project specific journal. I use moleskine for my journal entries, things to remember, etc. However the BnR A5 is great for projects. It takes FP ink well as well as BP, which I use in front of a client. I use 2 Lamy Safaris, and 2 Duke Germany FP's I bought in China, all with Private Reserve bottled ink in various colors.

Eyelets and band are not a bother. The poly covers are durable. I write a table of contents on the inside with a silver sharpie. When I finish the book, I title it on the outside with sharpie and keep in my bookcase.

They are great to write in, lay flat, and when needed, you can easily tear out a page. Lately I have also started using a Moleskine Cahier grid ruled journal, also at the A5 size. I create my own calendars with the grid paper (an idea I found on this forum) and keep by project with each BnR. With the elastic band, it works great.

I got the same notebook yesterday.
I like it, except it seems to take ink a long time to dry on the paper.
I have placed a piece of our cheap office paper in it as a blotter.
Maybe it's just my ink -- Waterman Fla. blue and whatever's in a Pilot Varsity.
Not wild about those rivets either...

I use the hardcover, spiral bound notebooks, since I do a lot of lap writing (Model L67000 and K67030). They're the only ones I've found that can take front and back writing with my broad, wet nibs filled with Noodler's.

I've got a couple of the bound notebooks as well, but haven't used them enough to say one way or the other how good they are.

As noted above, they can take a little longer to dry (with the right inks it can take an extremely long time to dry [I'm looking at you, Antietam]).

I write on yellow legal pads all day. Tops Docket is the best I can find in this town. Went to all the office stores this weekend hoping I could find Black and Red, but no joy.

Is this significantly better than the Tops Docket Gold? The Tops paper is sort of ok, but my MB doesn't like it- gets scratchy and dry by the bottom of the page. I think the paper is actually getting scraped and powdery from the nib, but that may not be accurate.

Do you want legal pads or a spiral bound notebook? The product in this thread is the latter, and the BnR notebooks are easy to find at OfficeMax, Staples, Office Depot, Rite-Aid, etc. The BnR website DOES show legal pads in the "American range" of products, but I've never found any, anywhere. I would to try a pad before ordering a bunch on the Internet.

I have used Ampad Gold Fibre legal pads, and my OfficeMax had a clearance sale on them before switching to Tops. I may have a lifetime supply of the Ampad; I haven't tried Tops yet. I can say with confidence the paper in the BnR notebooks is nicer than paper in Ampad Gold Fibre legal pads (which I consider "pretty good"). The BnR is heavier, no feathering at all (slight with Ampad and some inks), less show through with extremely wet pens. However, the drying time of ink may be a little longer -- probably an issue for lefties, and it is good to take a moment to think before turning the page (or blot). (This is mostly a "wet writer" issue.)

In the BnR line, I've only used the plastic cover, spiral notebooks. There has been some discussion that the paper in other models (casebound, hard cover spiral, legal pads) is not exactly the same. I had thought to buy enough BnR on the Internet to get free shipping, but, based on this discussion, I would want to buy at retail at least one of each product I intended to buy in bulk. On the other hand, my reaction to the plastic spiral is that I'd like to switch entirely to BnR paper.

I have both the soft cover spiral and the hard cover spiral and while the paper brightness seems different, I haven't noticed any real difference in how it handles the ink. It's obviously different but not to any negative effect.

That's my very unprofessional opinion.

I have both the hard cover and the poly cover A5 books. When I use them there is a huge difference between the two. With the hardcover the ink goes through the paper and there is more feathering (not every ink but you have to think about it which you don't have to with the poly ones). The poly ones are great and I use them all the time. The eyelets don't bother me at all.

I stopped by Target recently, they have both kinds of Black n' Red books.

The A5 sized spiral was $6, 24lb paper, perforated. Model L67000U, UPC 870875000043

The A5 sized bound was $6, 90gsm paper. Model E66857U, UPC 870875000180

The line spacing is between college and wide ruled, which are both too wide for my taste.

There was also a larger sized book, I believe A4 sized, bound, D66174U on the spine, a UPC of 8709875000067, $8

My only experience is getting the last Black N' Red steno pad at work. It works fine with fountain pens.

Just yesterday I picked up a Black n Red wire bound poly cover notebook, A4 size, for notes at my desk. The elastic band doesn't get in my way at all, but I don't think I will have a use for it either. So far I like the paper and it works fine with my sheaffer snorkel and noodler's black.