I recently read a article which claimed that students that use fountain pens do better at school that those who don't, if this is the case should fountain pens be made compulsory in schools. I would be very interested to read your opinions on this matter.

Fountain pens were compulsory at the school I went to, but I didn't appreciate them then.
I do think that they encourage better handwriting though.

It sounds like a great idea. Used to be the norm the world over, till ballpoint pens took over.

Interesting you should even bring up the subject. I was shopping yesterday, and pondering the total absence of cartridges, bottle ink, or fountain pens in the local WalMart. The thought occurred to me then that probably penmanship would improve, at least slightly, if fountain pens were mandatory, at least starting in US grade 6 (age 11, give or take). That at least was my experience.My penmanship was atrocious until the summer between grade 6 & 7, when I spent at least an hour a day practicing with my fountain pen (a Shaeffer school cartridge pen, if I recall correctly). It worked wonders for me, and to this day, my penmanship, when I do not absolutely rush to the finish, is nearly classic Palmer Method.

Donnie

I think so.. they used to offer it around here as part of art classes (calligraphic writing) rather than handwriting. I have only recently swapped over and truly, my handwriting's been improving. (I hope)

Its interesting to hear your views but do you think the general public (obviously you like/love fountain pens) would agree with such a measure or even be prepared to accept it?

I use em in school, but they shouldn't be made compulsory.
1. Too costly.
2. Too messy.
3. Not everyone appreciates it.

I agree that they may be to messy and that not everyone people appreciates it. But in the long run surely fp's would work out cheaper and anyway you can get disposable fp's very cheap.

Fountain pens are only messy if you're a complete klutz with ink. As for expense, there are fountain pens which are very cheap. Or, if that does not suffice, then drag out those old desks from the school archives, whip up some powdered ink and water and break out the dip-pens like the days of old...

Sad thing is, most people just can't and don't appreciate fountain pens like they used to. I doubt that will ever change. Therefore, if this measure would be implemented, then there'd probably be an uproar of students and parents (the former because they don't like them, the latter because they'll have to pay for them, lol).

no way

I admit my ignorance of the mechanics of the education system anywhere but in the US, so, my comments apply exclusively to the US, specifically Illinois, Washington, California, and Texas, states with whose school systems I am familiar.

In Washington, the measure might be met with some resistance, and a few parent meetings, calls to fire the superintendent, possibly even the state Superintendent of Public Instruction, but parents would eventually accept the measure, if it could be demonstrated that it benefitted the students.

Similar response likely in California, but no serious danger to the school administrations. As backup for my assertion, investigate the reaction of parents (and educators) the the changing of curriculum statewide to summarily move Algebra to 8th grade, with no pre-algebra in 7th grade. Also, in San Diego CA a few years ago, the County Superintendent of Public Instruction decided that to improve Science knowledge, he should mandate Physics for 9th graders, which he did. Huge outcry by parents and educators, to no avail.

In Illinois, I am uncertain, as I have not been involved with that state since I moved away in 1971.

In Texas, a few weeks before school starts, the stores will have lists, by grade level and ISD (Independent School District) of what students need for supplies. The Albertson's near my home actually made shrink-wrapped packages, and labeled them by grade level and school system, for those who desired a one-stop solution. There is also a weekend here in August, just before school starts, when there is no sales tax on school supplies or clothing. This is a statewide mandate, not a marketing tool. It lessens the regressive nature of sales tax on families less financially able to purchase necessities, like school clothes and school supplies. I cannot imagine parents reacting to an addition/change to the school supplies list, based on what I observed during the back-to-school shopping period. What I observed was a frequent statement "If it's on the list, we buy it" or words to that effect, from parent after parent, after parent.

Donnie

Yes Yes Yes

I too read an article in which two schools trialed the use of fountain pens, they found that handwriting improved over 100%, also grades in other subjects improved dramatically.

I visited my daughters school recently (she uses a fountain pen), I really think that too much emphasis is put on the use of computers and calculators and virtually none on handwriting and spelling.

Kind regards
NIGEL

I would like to see it compulsory.

Using a FP has improved my writing substantially.

I have a 5 year old son who is only just learning to write - he writes well (for a 5 yr old) using an old walker fountain pen his grandmother had. To me it is a cheap horrible pen that is no pleasure to write with, it is in the collection for it's history along with her Parker 17 Lady. To watch him turn the pen just so and write with it (obligatory tongue sticking out) is just amazing. It has a fine wet nib.

He says the pen is special so he can write special when he uses it. Thankfully he says my pens are too heavy! He can differentiate quiet clearly between an ordinary ballpoint and the FP. He asks for "his" pen when asked to sign family cards etc.

It's a sample of 1 but I was surprised how well he handles a fountain pen and the positive effect.

This is an interesting observation, however, I doubt FP use creates better students. Perhaps the more highly motivated students are more inclined to use a FP.

Jerry

Back in primary school there was an English teacher who made using fountain pens compulsory for her students. She didn't teach me unfortunately, but my friends who were didn't like it. Most of them just bought V-Pens, which are kinda expensive for a one-use pen and feathery on the cheap brown paper we used. But maybe if it was made a little easier people wouldn't mind too much(Affordable pens with well-behaved ink etc.)

Im sorry Jerry but i have to disagree with you there, the reason why students who use fountain pens do better is that they have to concentrate more in order to write and thus they think more about what they are writing.

I believe that this question would not even be asked in the first place if more people spent real "time" in classrooms across this country. The danger of "arming" students with these invitingly sharply pointed objects would surely lead to fewer eyes per student and countless "stabbing" incidents. The fact that they can stab each other with ballpoint pens, has thankfully been overlooked by the majority of kids out there.

I actually allowed my students to use fountain pens last year under very controlled circumstances. They loved the experience but had to return the pens to me before they left my class.

In any event, it amuses me that there is even a discussion of handwriting here. We literally have no time for such pursuits because we are too busy preparing for their reading tests. We were even being hassled last year by our assistant principal who, while sitting in her nice air conditioned office, was directing us to make the kids read and write papers on the LAST day of school when it was so hot in the classrooms, it was amazing that no one passed out or died from the heat...

If anyone wants to do a real service for the kids of this city (NY) they should campaign for either all classes to have air conditioning or to remove the air from the administrators' offices.

Always a danger when attributing causality to what might merely be correlation, but the studies cited in an earlier post tend to militate against a correlation and in favor of causality. If mandatory use raised performance, causality is more likely. If optional use raised performance, correlation is more likely.

Donnie

This is another interesting point but i don't think this has anything to do with fp's more a lack of discipline in our society (i can only speak for the uk here), but thats another issue.

The adoption of the second option would certainly ensure the adoption of the first option.

Donnie

I think Mimi's onto something here: I was forced to use fountain pens in school and it was over a decade before I used another after that.

I agree with the premise that fountain pens can help handwriting -- not to mention they can be fun! That said, as a 29-year educator, I've not seen much made "compulsory" in the schools that, in the end, works. Surely an environment that makes fountain pens available, offers experience with them so the kids can see what they're like without associating them with all the other institutional "hammers" -- I think such an approach would result in increased use, improved handwriting, and also great enjoyment.

But "compulsory"? That's where I get stuck, having seen the results of such approaches in the past -- including in my own past as a student. Just in my view, at least some of learning should be about helping students explore choices and learn how to make informed decisions. Fountain pen use might be one such area where such a process could be engaged -- with a "win-win" resulting for all involved.

Just my view. Please accept or reject, if you will.

Best to all!

I think discipline should be mandatory before fountain pens.

I'm with playpen. There are so many other things to do in my 90 minutes of instructional time that handwriting wouldn't make it in my classes even IF it were mandatory. Add as many things as you want, but when the time in class doesn't change teachers are left with two options: spend less time per objective or prioritize, even when that means never getting to some of the mandates. As for me, I would be sad at the end of the semester that we never got to use fountain pens to improve handwriting, but I wouldn't give up anything already on the schedule to make room for it.

no.

No, i don think so. Each week in my line of work I come across adolescents and young adults with a HS degree who read at or below a 4th or 5th grade level. Change needs to take place in our education system but fountain pens are at the end of my list.

MrR

No.

Considering the quality of the paper typically used by students, I have to say no.

I remember those days in primary school when fountain pens were the ONLY pens allowed to be used by students, apart from pencils. Ball pens were a no-no, and the impression I was given back then was that ball pens were exclusively for adults and certainly not for us kids

We were allowed to use FPs by the time we were in Standard 4 onwards (10 years old). But the only ink allowed was washable blue (no doubt to prevent fits from parents when their kids made a mess of their clothes, school bags and books with their pens ). The most popular ink in my school then were Quink, Hero and Youth (a Hero sub-company, I believe). In fact I still remember the smell of Hero's ink, as it had a distinctive, rather pleasant odour, and they still make their inks smell the same to this day.

But my most 'fun' recollection of those days was after school when we used to chase and 'shoot' each other with them Pilot squeeze-fillers; Pilots being the most popular and omnipresent school pen brand then. There were also those made by Ta-Tung and Hero, but Parker, Sheaffer, Waterman and other 'Western' brands were considered a step up as they were more expensive. How I wish I had one of them Snorkels then; I would certainly be able to 'outshoot' my schoolmates

Just my reminiscence of the days gone by here in Malaysia, about 30 years ago. I'm not sure about the situation then in other countries, though.


And oh, before I ramble on and go totally off topic, my answer to the original question posed by the thread starter is a.... no. As much as I love fountain pens and encourage my offspring to learn to use one (so far my only daughter is the only one who had taken up on FP usage ; her 3 elder brothers were not too impressed with FPs ), making its usage COMPULSORY in schools does seem to be frivolous when other more pressing and urgent issues with the current education system in Malaysia, such as FALLING STANDARDS and DISCIPLINE, are not even adequately addressed as yet. FP usage should be made a choice rather than rammed down the throat of students and teachers. I wholeheartedly concur with UsFour's opinion with regards to this matter



Shahrin

Should wiretaps and government view screens be compulsory in every home? Should there be a compulsory curfew? Should it be compulsory that we buy certain brands, but not others? Freedom of choice. I think it should be compulsory that the word compulsory be removed from every vocabulary.

How else would you keep in touch with the Family?



It would certainly cut down on crime in major cities. Maybe something like 2000 in the financial district and 0100 in the theatre districts. We'd of course get some kind of pass system worked out for third shift personnel. We could code your national ID card's RFID to show if you were authorized to be outside after general curfew hours.





A great way to save money. No need to advertise if you're the only brand. Wal-Mart should look into this plan.



Whoa! Is that a Norman Rockwell Freedom? I know it isn't one of Roosevelt's Four Freedoms or one of the ones listed out in the Bill of Rights.

So from this post one should conclude that you oppose compulsory public education? Not trying to start an argument, just clarifying. If you do oppose compulsory public education, I salute you.

Donnie

I would say no. First discipline and then the fundamentals of education. I would settle for reading, writing and arithmetic. History and Geography, not social studies, and real science.

I think penmanship in first or second grade is good but not with a FP as this is too young. Also I believe its' more than just the education system. I remember coming home from school doing my homework which was checked by my parents. I'm not a teacher, I'm the only maverick in my family of professors, high school, and primary school teachers and from what I can see some parents expect the school to provide everything while they don't work with their children. Perhaps its laziness or they're not able to, and it gets worse with each generation.

I think that encouraging fountain pen usage in English classes certainly wouldn't be a bad thing, but I think compulsory usage is going too far. Especially with the smaller selection of fountain pens at an affordable level for students (who tend to misplace pens on a regular basis), I don't think it would be right to force someone to use a specific pen.

For math, I wouldn't turn away from the pencil. The ability to erase is indispensable in my opinion. I'm currently an engineering college student, and while I use a fountain pen to take class notes, I wouldn't attempt any of my homeworks with anything but a pencil.

I don't believe it one bit :-) And no, fountain pens should not be made compulsory in schools.

There are situations when fountain pens are not adequate. I have trouble using a ruler to draw a line with a fountain pen. I think it's easier to use a technical pen in that case.

Not necessarily mandatory, but it should be encouraged due to its ergonomic benefits.

Fountain pens are one of those objects which, if added to the list of required school supplies, would quickly lead to conspicuous consumption. Even if the kids didn't start out caring about which pen they got, someone whose parents have money (or fountain pens) would soon bring an undeniably "superior" utensil to class, everyone else would envy it, and there could be repercussions. Theft would be only one of the unpleasant consequences of making fountain pens compulsory.

Also, we must be careful in interpreting the results of studies on this matter. Someone before me already commented on this point, but I'll restate the concern. In the original post, the OP wrote that

We should not take this as evidence that fountain pens cause students to do better at school. Indeed, depending on the age of the students, the causal connection could be exactly the reverse: it's quite plausible that children who do well in school were presented with fountain pens as gifts in recognition of their hard work. Most North American youth do not go out and buy fountain pens of their own accord.

That said, I don't think we need studies to understand why a student presented with a fountain pen might do better in school for a short period of time, at least until the novelty wears off. Most people tend to perform better when initially presented with better/more expensive/more desireable tools to work with. They also spend more time using the tools at first. So there's a good chance that if you were to give the average student a nice, leather bound copy of Romeo and Juliet, an elegant looking fountain pen (Waterman Phileas, say) and a beautiful notebook with smooth paper, this student will write a considerably better Shakespeare essay than a student of comparable standing who was not presented with these "superior" tools. I'm sure we've all experienced this sort of thing at some point in our own lives.

So to answer the OP's original question, I think there's a lot to be said about the virtue of handing a student a fountain pen as a "welcome to high school" present. But I think any comparably useful "tool" would work in much the same way. By making fountain pens compulsory, we would be making them commonplace, as they once were. I think it's best to give students (and their parents) a choice in what writing instruments to buy, while keeping in mind that we ought never to underestimate the power of a well-timed, well-thought out gift.

Absolutely yes. Makes you wonder why pen companies don't advocate and serve as their own goodwill ambassadors to schools themselves.

The post was hyperbole. I was trying to emphasize the fact that compulsory anything makes me shudder. Everyone has their own oddball theory, RE how compulsory this or that would make the world a better place. I don't buy any of it.

If made compulsory I doubt it'd be long before we hear of the first "fountain pen stabbing" in such and such a school.
MrR

It's not altogether uncommon to hear of an incident at schools involving pen and pencil injuries. I can recall a few pencil accidents, a tossed pen striking a student in the head, and one malicious pen incident, just in my experiences at public schools.

Maybe we should just have everyone use markers and felt tips

Rayman raises a very good point as well.

I was thinking crayons

MrR

It is, however, possible that the emphasis on concentration at an early age(they do cause people to focus on what they are writing from my experience) could lead to better students in that focus leads to better understanding.

Powdered finger paints if you don't want the public school kids to have a chance of making weapons from them.

Before the pot gets stirred, this is a joke based on a stereotype. I don't really believe in sweeping generalizations.

I haven't read the entire thread but about students who use FPs do better in school: Correlation does not imply Causation.

Btw I don't think FPs should be mandatory in schools, even though I love them I don't think it's really that practical especially given how hard it is to find a place that sells FPs in North America.

You'll have the pharmaceutical company thugs out bending tines if you try to promote FPs to aid concentration. They've already got that market cornered. If you can't sit through a half hour class without looking bored or fidgeting, someone will be happy diagnose you with a flavour of ADD/ADHD.

No. As a HS student, I use a FP regularly for English class, note-taking in government classes, and occasionally for physics. Mathematics, by nature, necessitates pencil (at least at the calculus level). For some reason, I feel like I can concentrate more on the content when writing with an FP so english essays really tend to shine. For physics, I say occasionally since drawing a diagram with a metal ruler and an FP means your FP's nib will now have a new notch in it.