I received three post office notices yesterday. They informed me that I had three packages to pick up. One was in a big post office, and two were in a smaller, yet almost as large, post office. The first one contained three pens, six bottles of ink, and three notebooks. I had to pay around P1300 (~$28) in customs fees. But I used my student status to haggle it down to P900 (~$20). Declared value: $94
The next package included two pens and three notebooks. No customs fee. DECLARED VALUE: $20
The last package was one pen. No customs fee. DECLARED VALUE: $0
I asked the lady in the releasing department of the smaller post office why I had to get one package from the big post office, and two from this one. She said that the ones with the higher declared values went to the larger post office. And so I made a conclusion. This is my big Eureka! moment.

If you don't declare a value (or declare a value less than ~$20 for that matter), you won't need to pay the large customs amount! Now, this is a bit risky, too, because if you don't declare a value, and it gets lost or damaged, you won't get anything back. But then again, do you really think your package will be that one which will get lost? I doubt it, and I'm willing to take the risk.

This may or may not apply to the Philippines only. But I think it should be a worldwide thing. When you're sending out pens and inks (especially if you're just a small company or you're giving as a gift), don't put a declared value. You'll save the recipient a lot of money.

It is called breaking the law... I don't know how it works where you live, but here is it a criminal act...
I will never under declare a package going overseas, especially if it is going insured... in the US you will only be paid the declaration value..

Really?
Well, in a way, if it's used or something, maybe it's fair to underdeclare it, a bit. I find the customs taxes here simply outrageous, and I'd be willing to underdeclare something to bypass that. You save more than you risk, if you get caught, which is something you probably won't be, here in the Phils.

Oh and just an added note.
The customs officials here are quite corrupt. I don't mean to destroy the image of the Philippines, but it's true. Our driver was telling me about some customs people he knew-- they were just checkers, but they had luxury cars! Just goes to show how willing these people are to take bribes. It's cause the government doesn't pay them enough...

I always put the price that I paid for the item on the customs docket, and as I mainly buy from boot sales, this solves a lot of the problems inherent in putting a retail value on an item for foreign postage.
When my government obeys the law as well as I do, i.e. not stating illegal wars for oil, I might be somewhat more inclined to obey the trivialities of the Excise’s excessive demands.
Retreats back to Tunbridge Wells, muttering about honour, justice, responsibility, and the old days.....

There is no tricky calculus involved here. The seller should fill in what you paid. Whether you bought the item new or used is immaterial. To do otherwise is both illegal and deprives you of collecting insurance for your purchased price if the item is damaged.

And if the government overpaid them, I bet that they would still take bribes, just like their bosses do. Why have one source of income when you could have both? The same problem exists within US agencies, as well, even when agents are paid quite well. The problem only gets worse as you go up the chain of command, with politicians at the zenith. Most people are simply petty, corrupt, shameless, and arrogant enough to believe that they won't get caught even when others do. To be fair, I should amend this statement--most people are basically good people until they are put in a position in which they can receive bribes, then they become the criminals they really always were, deep down inside. Hey, it's only wrong if you get caught, right?

What, me cynical? No way. A cynic is somebody who, at heart, still expects more out of humanity and is disappointed. I'm just a coldblooded realist.

What about when you're sending a gift to a friend, and you don't want your friend to incur any costs for the gift, because, duh, it's a GIFT.

I've under-declared gifts. I'd rather risk the loss than force my friends to pay for something I want to give them.

Contents: Old Pen
Value: $5

Yes, it's illegal to falsify customs forms here in Canada too. I grumble when I have to pay duty, and taxes, and etc., but I would hate for a beautiful new pen - that cost me tons of money - to go missing and not be able to collect the insurance simply because I didn't want to pay some fees. It's not legal and it's not worth the risk (imho).

I'm sorry that you have to suffer that sort of corruption. But it's unfair to ask someone in another country to violate the laws of his country at the risk of fines or even imprisonment if it can be shown that he's engaged in a pattern of such violations.

It's also unfair to ask anyone to violate his own ethics.

And what makes you think that if a seller is willing to lie to someone else (customs officials), he won't be willing to lie to you?

I don't think that's a problem at all, exactly for the reason you've stated. But it depends on the value of the item, still, doesn't it? I mean, that's why you get asked "are you bringing any gifts?" when you cross the border by car. I agree with you in principle, though.

Many commercial sellers will state quite plainly on their site that they will not under-declare or otherwise falsify documents. I am sure it is not worth the risk of losing their business, and they have the perfect right (maybe duty) to adhere to the regulations. However, I have occasionally been surprised to receive a package that the seller voluntarily under-declared, without me asking them to do so (and I never ask). I'm not sure about the implications of that.

My family is from the Philippines. What you say is quite true. However, as I often tell my own children "just because someone else is doing something wrong and getting away with it, doesn't mean it's right for you to do the same thing". Corrupt officials aren't justification for asking any seller or vendor for falsification.

I think old pens and gifts are different, BTW, because there's leeway in declaring a value on something used and/or old. And gifts - well, you shouldn't have to pay extra for a gift, I don't think. But for commercial vendors with prices clearly stated on their site - well, I think they don't have too much choice but to stick to the letter of the law.

Well, there is a matter of legalities. The declared value on that large package was not the sender's declared value, btw. Further, the package wasn't going until the postal clerk was provided with a value (they were the ones in control). Plus, the postage alone was a killer to the Phillippines. That package was also marked "gift" (which it was a gift of items that had already been acquired and used). With the UK, I have no problems. So, there really is not a way to keep things low cost to some countries. There were a lot of restrictions on packages for the Phillippines, I was surprised. Sorry you got hit with the fees, though. I think some mail systems are really engaging in highway robbery.

edit, hm. that declared value looks to be the actual declared value plus the amount of postage paid to send it to the Phillippines. I think Richard has to do that with pen sales, a total value based on the sale and the postage? Anyway, that's only way I see to come up with that particular value.

As far as ethics, I'm thinking apples and oranges to some degree. If someone is buying new and getting it shipped, yeah, taxes and duties are there and I'll pay my share (though I really bristle when there are no duty fees due, but I have to pay for a handling fee). But if I choose to give someone something that I have had, I have decided not to use anymore, and would rather give away than throw out... eh, I guess my ethics are getting a bit skewed here. I can't see declaring a large value on used items. If I was giving away the Mona Lisa... ok, different kind of old and value. But if I'm giving something away that is used and certainly depriciated in value?

This system has the ugliest editing format!

Hi,

Interesting debate but like the others say this is illegal in most countries (even those that have corrupt officials).

If the value of the item is marginal, ie $5 over customs threshold, then I wouldn't have a problem asking the seller to underdeclare, but the choice would be their's if they said no I would take my chances with customs not picking it up (fat chance).

When we are talking about vintage /second hnd pens, value isn't really a static figure as there is no MRSP as such.

Of course most governments look on any attempt to deprive them of revenue rather more seriously than alot of other crime, so you have been warned.

Andy

Crime is crime.

Hi,

Just want to confirm the fact that the customs officials in the Philippines are corrupt. It's not something favorable, and dealing with it is not fun.

Still, I do not believe in falsifying customs forms. It is a crime since you are lying. It states on form CN-22: "I, the undersigned, whose name and address are given on the item, certify that the particulars given in this declaration are correct and that the item does not contain any dangerous article or articles prohibited by legislation or by postal or customs regulations." You sign to signify that the form is Correct information.

Dillon

A lot of post offices won't even send packages without a declared value or detailed list of contents. Also if they open up the package and find an invoice for a different amount, they won't be happy. At the very least they will charge you an inspection charge and duties on the invoice value, and possibly a fine.

Sending a "gift" doesn't always work either, as most countries have a value limit on gifts. Here in Canada it's $60; after that you're fair game for paying duties. And items marked "gift" are, in my experience, more likely to be opened and checked.

I do think that customs fees are old-fashioned and illogical these days, but it's always better to play by the rules when you're dealing with the government (especially post-9/11!!).

Neill

Tax is a criminal act as well. I think we are all criminals

An overseas contract worker works in the USA, and has left his family behind in the Philippines. Every year, he sends his six children gifts for their birthdays, as well as for Christmas. Of course, since he earns a lot and since he is unable to spend time with his children, he buys them expensive gifts and sends them over. However, his family isn't exactly rich. Would they be willing to pay the probably $20 per gift ($120) and then maybe another $100 for Christmas? That's over $220 in customs fees alone.
The amount you put is kinda like the amount you think its worth, and how much you believe its should be insured for. After all, that is what insurance is about, right? Insuring something for what its worth? Some people have their hands insured-- how can you calculate the worth of that?
And yes, total declaration is shipping PLUS cost of items. For businesses, it's proper to declare the value. But when it comes to things like gifts, especially, then I believe we shouldn't declare it as much. After all, gifts are priceless.

Even if the seller 'faithfully' let the buyer pay taxes over the full amount including his profit and postage, how can I know the seller is not charging me too much for the pen?

The value of any piece of merchandise is the price agreed upon for that item by a willing buyer and a willing seller. If you click the "buy it" button, you are stating that you are a willing buyer. By definition, this signifies that you are not being charged too much.

Very true. But then again, what if it's a gift?

What I wanted to make clear, is that you can never know for certain if a seller is not charging too much (compared to similar pens and the profit he makes) or lying about the pen, even if he faithfully let you pay tax over the full amount.

re a seller charging me too much happens when I buy a pen from a seller and I find out later that other sellers are selling the same pen for much less. If a seller makes a lot of profit, I would also call it 'charging too much'.

Nope, the declared value is how much the item cost. You, as a private individual, are importing a finished product into your country and so are paying the fees that are usually borne by professional importers.

You can send gifts, duty free, up to whatever value your government has deigned to give you.

Crime can always be rationalized by criminals, but in the end the authorities are unlikely to buy your song and dance story. If you believe you are justified and don't mind committing a crime, you can of course gamble that you won't get caught. No one can make another person honest, we can only punish the dishonest acts of others.

But actually, for that matter, what if it's a pen that Richard sends back after having worked his magic? Is he allowed to increase the value of the pen because it has a custom nib? But who's to say that it's better? The government probably couldn't care less whether it has a custom nib or whatnot. Will he get into trouble for having a higher declared value for it?
NOTE: I'm not saying that Richard's nib grinding magic is a bad thing! When I get enough money, I'm planning on sending over a pen or two to Richard to have him work his magic. I'm just using it as an example.

Interesting debate we're having here. I'm enjoying it.

I am an import compliance manager with my company. A declared value of $0 is illegal and a red flag to Customs. Also, a value of $1 is also a red flag as very few items are valued at exactly $1. Others have given the best advice for anyone: Declare the value paid or payable (transaction value), the preferred valuation method for imported goods. Even if the good was a gift, the value at time of export must be declared for importation purposes.

It should be marked "temporary import for repair" and so should be exempt from fees. That's the way I understand it anyway.

With regards to the more general issues here... I think that there is a very grey area that is typified here with regards to law. I think everyone would agree that tax-evaders and benefit cheats should be punished but when it comes to avoiding import fees I think people are more divided. Personally, it's just another tax (stealth tax) that is implemented as a money making scheme. This is mainly in place to ensure most goods are purchased on home shores which benefits the government both through direct VAT and also general spending to domestic businesses and helpful to the economy as a whole.

I see the world as one place. I think I'm getting slightly off topic with regards to borders etc. but massive price differentials existing on a birth 'postcode lottery' is something that I feel is unfair. Why else would people want to buy from abroad? (Unless something rare of course).

There's my say on it anyway.

Matt.

I was rather surprised to receive a replacement for an expensive ($450) saxophone mouthpiece declared as "Saxophone parts, Value $5".....although as it was a direct FOC replacement I didn't feel TOO bad about not having to pay 2.5% duty and 16% IVA tax

I asked the proprietor later what he'd have done if it had gone missing "Oh, we'd just have sent you another!"
( It did make me wonder about his margins!)

I imagine it would have been fun getting the correct form from the Spanish customs when I returned the faulty item....I didn't think of doing so, although as my first job was in Customs & Excise, I probably should have!

But the Indian Eyedropper pen that was sent to me was marked at $0, yet I still got it.

It is well to remember that the plural of anecdote is not data.

There are legal ways to avoid paying duties on the entire value of a good that has been temporarily exported to be modified or advanced in value. Each country's laws may differ, but generally if the good is temporarily exported to be repaired or modified, the value on reimportation would be the value of the repairs or modification and the temporary exportation would have to be closed. There are time limits for these temporary declarations (usually around six months). Always check your country's laws. A call to your nearest Customs office should yield the correct procedure.

True. That's one debate principle we use.
If something comes in a large box, and it's marked $0, then it's probably a red flag. But if it's something small, and worth $0, customs'd probably let it go.

Great luck, or less than diligent Customs service!

They didn't inspect it anymore. I think customs here only inspects packages which are declared to be worth... $50 and up?

In the country I live (Europe) customs often let it go when the sender is not a company, but a private person. In December the 'free import amount' will go up from $ 30 to more than $ 100 (I don't know exactly).

No, they obviously didn't ... I wouldn't have taken such a chance on its disappearance even if it weren't illegal.
Of course, a small package valued at nearly $500 would have been a more 'tempting target'!

I'm sorry, but you once you agree to a purchase, you have agreed to the price. If you later discover that you could have purchased the item for less elsewhere, it's your fault, not the seller's. You are responsible for due diligence in your choice of seller.


As it happens, RichardsPens.com is careful to declare only the value that we add through our work, not the actual value of the pen. This is honest and correct because our added value is indeed subject to customs duty even though the pen's original value is not again dutiable.


Perhaps the seller declared the actual worth of your pen correctly...

Haha! Well, it's a great pen, nontheless. Maybe it was cause it was placed in a PVC pipe tube, and it was the value of the pipe that was declared.

"How on earth did that fountain pen get in there?!"

Hahaha! Yeah.
"I ordered a pipe, maybe the pen was a freebie."

This seller is a greedy 'bastard' making use of the gullibility of the innocent buyer. The seller charged too much at the expense of the buyer. He is stealing his energy (the buyer has to work for his purchase). The buyer may have been stupid (although he cannot know always how much profit the seller is cashing in). The seller is a crook.

Unless you have certain knowledge of the seller's situation and reasons for pricing as he has done, calling him a crook is just plain unfair and potentially defamatory.

It occurs that you might like an example. RichardsPens.com used to sell Platinum pens. We found that sellers in the U.K. could buy the pens cheaply enough that they could sell them at a profit for less than we had to pay to buy them. So we charged more than the UK. sellers, but we didn't make more profit than they did. Were we crooks for charging more? Your duty as a purchaser is to find the best bargain for yourself. My duty as a seller is to sell for a price that allows me to make enough profit that I can stay in business.

The free market is a harsh mistress.

I was talking about a seller in general who is charging too much and makes use of the gullibility and lack of knowledge of a buyer. Yes, I call such sellers crooks.

They may be crooks, but then you'd be stupid for buying from them. But hey, that's what they need to do to make a living, I guess.

Free markets don't exist. I'm not against making money, but call sellers who make use of the gullibility and lack of knowledge of a buyer crooks. Not that I want to change or punish them.

I just tell it as it is. Such sellers steal energy of 'innocent buyers'.

(I'm not naming one seller in particular)

Exactly! As a matter of fact, we human beings, we all steal energy from the earth, the animals and other human beings. So, we are all crooks.

But that's another story

Hmmm... Are airports crooks for selling their food at such high prices?