I am considering buying one of these tow pens.

Either the Pelikan 400 Tortoise with an Oblique nib
or the Sailor Sapporo or Sapporo Mini with a music nib.

If you had the choice of one of thse two pens which would you choose and why ?
Thanks so much for your thoughts!

That Pelikan is a piston filler. The Sapporo uses a converter - and the wider the nib, the more often you will be filling it. i have a "M" nib Sapporo and it seems like I'm filling it all the time. I say Pelikan....

Go for the Pelikan. I have a Sailor Professional Gear and while it is a nice pen; I would not purchase another Sailor. The Pelikan M200 I tried in San Francisco at Flax Art & Design was a much nicer pen.

well, your mileage may vary, but ...............

I have a Pelikan 400 and it is a very good pen with an excellent nib

I have a Sailor 1911 which is a very good pen with an excellent nib

I prefer the Sailor. I believe the nib has slightly better flow and control of ink. They are both top tier, best I've ever written with. If I had to choose one it would be the Sailor.

Leaving aside aesthetics (both are very attractive in their different ways, I think), filling mechanisms (Japanese converters tend not to have the problems of everyone else's, so unless capacity matters I would say this issue is a toss-up), and size (you know what's comfortable for you, let's focus on the nibs. The Sailor will write like a big, wet, stub; I wouldn't recommend it unless your writing is pretty big. And, depending on how you write, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're right-handed.

The Pelikan oblique is different from the Sailor, but how different depends on how recent it is and what size it is (OF, OM, OB, OBB, OBBB) - do you know? Up to a certain point (some time in the 60s? I'm not sure) Pelikan's obliques were left foot obliques cut like stubs and thus provided considerable line variation (they were also often flexible in varying degrees, which added to the line variation). Depending on how you hold the pen and whether you're right or left handed, the results of writing with an oblique should look different from the results of writing with a music nib (or any other variety of straight cut stub/italic). I like writing with left obliques because, as a left-handed underwriter, the thick/thin lines fall the same way they do for most right-handed people using a straight cut italic/stub (i.e., the widest line is a diagonal from top left to bottom right, the thinnest being a diagonal from bottom left to top right). Subsequent Pelikan obliques provide next to zero line variation and seem designed merely to accommodate right handed writers who turn their hand in a certain way when writing, not to make the results more attractive. A vintage 400 will likely be comparably wet to a Sailor, a modern 400 drier (though of course that can be altered).

So, the answer depends on whether: you're right or left handed; how big your writing is; whether you want line variation and, if so, how you want the thick/thin lines to fall; and so on. If it were me, I would choose the Pelikan, especially if it's old enough to provide line variation. But it's not me....

Simon

I just had the same decision to make, except kicked up a notch Z!
For me it was either the Pelikan M800 or the Sailor Professional Gear as I believe these are comparable pens.

This is the information I received from one of our favorite pen suppliers:

The Pro Gear is $185 and the 1911 large is $175. The fine nibs are quite fine but the
mediums are more like a regular medium. There is a fine/medium and I have one of
those in a Pro Gear yellow. The 1911 is close in size to the Pelikan
800 which I sell for $270 (until the end of the month).

So for me it came to economics. $185 for the Sailor or $270 for the Pelikan. I choose the Sailor and I'm very glad I did. What a fun pen to write with. Now, keep in mind I have the 21K nib.... and I think the nib is sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I have not held the Pelikan, so no real comparison there. I will buy a Pelikan one of these daze....

So -------- if I were to choose a MEDIUM nibs rather than the Music or oblique - would your responses be the same ????????????????????
I like a fairly wet writer, I have small hands and my writing would would, I believe, be called a medium.

I have both a Pelikan M400 and a Sailor Sapporo.
I bought the Pelikan first, and a few months later I bought the Sapporo. If I'd done it the other way round I might not have bought the Pelikan. The two pens have similar sized bodies - the Sapporo is a bit shorter - and I think the Pelikan is lighter, which I prefer. However, I love the smoothness of the Sapporo nib and the Sapporo is the pen that I would usually reach for first.
That said, I have the Pelikan with a (very wide-feeling) EF nib, the Sapporo in EF (which is a very narrow EF)and another Sapporo in F (which is somewhere between the Pelikan and the EF Sapporo in nib width). I also have very small handwriting; it's naturally about 12 point Times New Roman size, so the EF and F Sapporo nibs suit my writing more than the Pelikan EF nib.
The Pelikan M nib will be a lot wider than the Sapporo M nib. Based on the pens I have, I would say that my out-of-the-box EF Pelikan might put down about the same width of line as an M in the Sapporo.
Also, I think that the Sapporo is quite a lot cheaper than the Pelikan, so one idea might be to buy yourself one of them and to suggest the other as an amazing Christmas present from your partner?

Good suggestion - most people think I am a tad tweaked because I love FP's so much. I am leaning towards the Sailor right now ... I just love the look of that white/tortoise Pelikan ... but I have an old Pelikan that I love and no Sailors .. and yes, I have to say that the nib sizes are very different.

I bought a Pilot Cavalier with a F nib and was amazed that it wrote xtra fine or even XXfine!

That's a coincidence - my Pelikan M400 is a white tortoise too. Sadly it developed one of the cracks in the cap whilst sitting safely in its box on a table in the study, but me being, er, loathe to complain about anything, I haven't sent it back or even said anything. It's had the crack for about a year and a half and other than that it's a really lovely pen.
I have the Sapporo in a gold trim, because that was the only colour for the EF nib, and in a rhodium trim because I actually prefer black/silver pens. In fact, almost all of my pens are black and silver apart from the Pelikan.
I think an obsession with fountain pens is far healthier (and probably cheaper) than an obsession with eating out, or drinking expensive wine!

I would definitely say the Pelikan - I have both pens, and the Sailor feels too short and stubby to me, whereas my Pelikan White Tortoise M400 is fabulous. I have an OM nib which I much prefer over my regular or italic nibs (it just glides), and the Tortoise is truly lovely to look at and wonderful to write with.

Why not buy the Pelikan now, and then wait until Sailor introduce the piston-fill into their pens (sometime next year?), and then you get both!

Emma

Oh ! I did not know that that was on the horizon for Sailor - no doubt for a premium though I bet ! OTOH - there should be some good deals on in stock models !

I've had my White Tortoise for a long time, and also felt a bit uneasy about addressing the 'cracked cap issue.'
But after reading a thread on FPN, it looks like Pelikan have developed a new cap for the WT and are happy to replace it - I sent
mine back to Pelikan through the UK distributor, Stone Marketing, although haven't had
the new cap back yet (I only posted it to Stone a couple of weeks ago). But I think Pelikan have sorted out the cap issue now,
so more reason to get one, zquilts!

Ha! Well, in that case I would recommend my favorite-looking Pelikan, the 140, with an oblique nib (if you like that sort of thing), or a B nib if you would like a medium stub, or a plain fine or medium nib (they tend to be wet writers).

But that's not helpful.... Given the precise alternatives you're offering, and now that I know from your description that it's not a vintage Pelikan, I would pick the Sailor - but note that like all Japanese pens their nibs run a bit finer than Pelikans'. Do you have a chance to try them before buying? If so, that should tell you all you need to know.

Simon

I have 3 Sailors (large 1911, medium 1911, and a Maki-e based on the medium 1911) and 2 Pelikans (a 600 sized Picadilly Circus and an M320.) I'd recommend them all and I'd get both brands.

That's my prblem. I live on a relatively isolated island - no mainland any closer than a full days travel back and forth. The Pelikan 400 that I was looking at at Swisher Pens has a choice on B OB or OBB - so that may be too broad an oblique for me. They have a great clearance going on though and it is tempting.

I know the vagaries of the japanese nibs - I ordered a fine in a Pilot Cavalier and was amazed that it wrote more like an xtra or xxtra fine ! SO I may want a broad to get a medium - though maybe they don't even have broads !

I have a 40 year old Pelikan 120 that I still love - with a MO point. It needs to be binderized and I need a replacement 'pocket hanger' for it .. but it's still a great pen .

Seattle Pen Club meeting is on Sept 20th,
and again on October 18th, this meeting is in Bellingham.

IF you can wait that long, there is a high probability someone there will be a Peli and a sailor in someone's collection you could try.

I'll see if I can swing the day off island. It's an all day trip from here to either Bellingham or Seattle because of the ferries ! Thanks for the info !

I bet your in the San Juan islands. I love them, especially Orcas Island. One of my favorite people in the whole world lives there... Richard Bach.

Don't know if this is helpful but I just received my Sailor 1911 with a music nib yesterday. Writes like a wet, broad stub so it's perfect if you have large handwriting. I have pretty small handwriting but I can easily appreciate the lovely line variation and smoothness of the nib.

I believe that Sailor has a piston-filler model,but it's in one of their LE pens like the King of Pen(or one
like that).

John

I just did a write up on why I prefer the Pelikan over the Sapporo. (M200 though - not the 400)

http://biffybeans.blogspot.com/2008/09/i-l...-better-if.html

You've gotten a lot of feedback on this, but if I can offer my 2 cents...

This is one of the more difficult recommendations to make, only because Pelikan and Sailor are two brands I hold in high regard. Ultimately, I don't think you can fall short with either.

If you're thinking Sailor: They make excellent nibs 99% of the time, but do use a converter, which can be a shortcoming for some.

If you're thinking Pelikan: They make excellent nibs 90% of the time, and use a piston-filler, which is generally well-respected by all. To guarantee a great nib, buy from Richard Binder or nibs.com. You'll pay a slight premium over other outlets, but the extra money is worth it. Alternately, you can switch up nibs with Chartpak until you find one you like. Indeed, another plus of the Pelikan is amazing warranty support. On my M600, there was a minor inconsistency in the barrel, and I had Chartpak switch it out three times for me, until I found a barrel that met with my extremely high (and some would say unreasonable) standards. For an "exotic" nib, such as those you're interested in, buying a Pelikan might provide some insurance, in the sense that you can switch out the nib as many times as you want, until you find one that writes just right (sorry, couldn't avoid the play on words).

Thanks JJ - for that well considered reply.
I ended up - have not received it yet even - a Sailor Professional Gear Slim with a Broad point ... I think it will work well for me. I still have my beloved original Pelikan 120 with a lovely italic nib that's still butter smooth. One day I'll be able to afford the Pelikan M320 ... which I think it just perfect for my mini collection!