Are there any other Japanese pens with stub nibs like the Broad Pilot 78g? Broad = Stub isn't the default for Japanese nibs, right?

Thanks!

Aaron

Hi,

Normally they don't do stubs because stubs aren't very suited for Japanese writing.

Dillon

How about the Music pens? Technically they are not stubs, but if what you are looking for is a very broad pen, then you wil not find any better than these. Pilot, Platinum and Sailor all make Music pens. Pilot and Platinum have them in three tines, while Sailor makes one with the usual two tines, which I guess would make it a stub.

And in speaking of Music pens... we have some cool news. I just learned that the planning comittee of Philidelphia has acquired one of our Kamakura Pens Limited Editions to present to the Dalai Lamma when he visits and teaches in that city next spring.

Pilot Custom 743 and 742 have an option of factory stub nib (SU).

http://www.pilot.co.jp/support/fountain/1183148557940.html

Mostly, I was just curious. If I'm to buy a Japanese pen, it'll likely be a Pilot Custom 823. I tried a Sailor 1911 recently and wasn't impressed- just not my style. I really enjoy the 78g, though. I know there isn't any stub or music nib for the 823, but I'd be open to getting a B or BB 823 ground to a cursive italic, though.

On that note, if anyone has a used 823 they want to get rid of, feel free to PM me.

Aaron

823 only comes in F/M/B so no stub. It's a great pen though - I have 2, both filled with different shades of iroshizuku ink.

What surprises me is that you didn't like the 1911. I find myself using my Sailors more than my Pilots these days... They are both great pen makers but I find that the Sailor nibs are a little better writers. Not much in it though.

I dunno, maybe an 823, or other fancy-pants pen, just isn't in my future.

I was really disappointed by the 1911. The thing that bugged me about the two 1911s I've tried (one bought then sold, one wasn't mine) is that the nib caught while sweeping left or right at the bottom of a downstroke. Deal breaker for me. I don't use any odd script, but it was something I encountered often in the short time I had it and existed in the other pen I tried. Both were Mediums. I've not tried any other sizes yet, but since Sailor isn't Lamy or Pelikan, I couldn't just buy another nib, or send it off and get it swapped for free or cheap. Which means I won't spend a lot of time (or money!) experimenting.

Frankly, the whole thing has made me rather scared to try out another expensive (more than $100) modern pen. Part of me wonders if modern pen makers have simply forgotten to make great pens, at least ones that match up with me. There are many cheaper pens which I find quite wonderful, but of the small group of expensive modern pens I've tried, only the Lamy 2000 has cut the mustard. The others seem to have some quality that really bugs me. Maybe my standard of smooth is higher, or different. Not sure. In the case of the 1911, it was good as a really low (30 degrees up from the paper), but it was such an unnatural way to hold the pen for me.

In the end, if I'm going to plunk down over $100 for a pen, it has to do better than a Lamy Safari, Pilot 78g or Kaweco Sport. It'd be unfair to expect a linear increase in quality, so I don't- but I do expect that they write at least something at least as nice as those pens. Maybe glass smooth or butter smooth mean different things to me- for me, it means no feedback on normal writing, very little sound, direction changes aren't met with page catches etc.

I don't seem to have the same problem with vintage pens. Both vintage Pelikans I have- an EF 140 and a M 400NN- are incredible. Neither have been serviced or tweaked after I bought them, both are over 40 years old.

I've a feeling I might end up trying an 823 next, sometime in the future. The resale value isn't too bad. And if it doesn't pan out, then I'll hold off buying anything new over $50 until I can make it to a pen show.

Aaron

Hi,

The music nib maybe something you might want to try. I forgot about it last night.
Sailors are typically wetter than the Pilots. I happen to like the Pilots more though.

Dillon

I did like the wetness of the Sailor nib, but it isn't the biggest factor. That said, I'd rather have a wetter nib than a dry nib.

Do you see the tines of music nibs coming of out alignment very often? Seems a bit more of a pain to adjust than a two-tined nib- more room for error on my part.

Aaron

Aaron, It still stuns me that you are having these problems with Japanese pens. I have bought over 40 new and haven't had a single problem with any of them.

You could always buy an 823 and have it nibmeistered to your liking.

HerosNSuch: That's an option, and probably the one I'd end up taking if the other nib-feed properties of an 823 worked out for me. It'd have to write decently first before I sent it off- I'm not one to fall in love with the rest of the pen so much as the nib and how it writes. I am pretty new to CI and stubs, but most certainly wanting more.

The main thing that would keep me from getting an 823 ground is that I couldn't easily buy a new nib, like you can on a Pelikan or Lamy Safari, or even get it replaced quickly and cheaply, as with the Lamy 2000. Not for swapping sake, but if it didn't work out, wanted to sell it, etc.

Aaron

The 823 I have was butter-smooth right out of the box. It does not catch on wide strokes, in any direction. My favorite Japanese pen. I also like the Sailor Naginata togi, although I've had to exchange mine for a narrower nib, as they unexpectedly seem to run on the broad side.

Well, that's what people say about Visconti and Sailor- but I disagree. I wonder if that's the problem- if my definition of "butter-smooth" is just very different from others'. A Pilot 78g held at the correct angle? That is glass smooth. A Lamy 2000? Butter-smooth. Alas.

Aaron

I know what you mean. The Sailor 1911M I have does "catch" slightly, for example, sometimes when I write the tail of the letter "Y". However, my 823 does not have that problem at all, so I think you'd like it.

I had a few Sailors that caught on the paper slightly on certain angles, but the Pilots I've used generally don't do that.

Dillon

Oh, I forgot! Nakaya offers stub nibs also.

http://www.nakaya.org/estub.html

Oh, you guys are mean. Tricky, even!

In reading the "What is the difference between feedback and scratchiness?" thread, I think I've discovered I'm simply opposed to almost all feedback Which to some people means a pen with no character, but to me it is just how it should be.

Aaron