Dear folks:__________
I recently acquired a neat old scheaffer ringtop flattop vest pocket pen in pretty good shape. I don't know how old it is; but it has a 1914 patent date. The color is a black with creme marble. The pen has aged to a real light amber; think of it as a creme to extremely light amber. Should this pen be re-saced with a latex or plastic sac? It will be a daily user.

Thanks in advance,
LEROY

Leroy;

If it will be a daily user I don't think it will matter. More than the sac effects the color. UV exposure, oils and dirt on your hands, and the plain fact that all plastics are in a state of deteroration (albeit centuries) can aid in discoloration. It is hard to say that since it has a certain color today it is less likey to discolor today. There have been cases were modern discoloration has occurred. Many of these plastics discolored within a few years of manufacture. The DeLuxe models (pearl and black) also had crazing issues if the creme cured quicker than the black. The DeLuxes started in 1928 so your pen dates to then or after.

Roger W.

Thanks Roger. I appreciate it.
Regards,
LEROY

My knee-jerk is to apply a silicon sac in a pen where discolouration might occur, just to remove a variable in the whole stew of discolouring possibilities. Yes, it puts a little more stress on the filling mechanism, but usually not enough to matter.

I concour. Silicone sac (thick wall! the thin ones are BS) Of course, hard rubber from the section or the inner cap can also fume sulphur and darken your cap... so if you decide to go with a rubber sac, just don't leave it in there too long (say, remove it every couple of years...) and you'll be safe. You'll also find advice that says the exact opposite, that if you have an old sac supposedly it has done all the harm it can do so go with that... I'm not holding any scientific data to support my guess, but I'll say that sulphur fume from latex sacs is bad (worse? ) when you inspect a pen that has been used then stored for extended periods of time, or just hasn't seen any use at all. Regulary used and resacked pens can be A) much better or B)way more chipped, scratched and discoloured than a drawer pen.

My gut instinct would be to recommend using a silicone sac to be safer. But I wonder if today's today's latex sacs are formulated with less sulfur than sacs from the '20s and '30s?

I use rubber sacs instead of plastic ones, (not that I've tried plastic), and I've not noticed any sort of discolouration on any of my pens. The sacs I use are all brand-new.

And I would guess that a ringtop/vest pocket fountain pen, would be manufactured no later than the 1930s. These pens were designed to clip onto one half of a double-albert watch-chain (the other half obviously holding the watch itself). When the pocket watch & chain went increasingly out of fashion towards the mid-20th century, these pens stopped being made.

if the pen is made out of BHR the rubber sacs are fine... but... if the pen is made out of something like a light coloured marble celluloid these can dis-colour from the out-gassing of sulphur from the rubber sacs... and from the BHR sections and blind caps on the barrels and caps as well if these are present... it does not happen overnight but it will... almost invariably... at some point down the track...

I have about 4 beautiful vintage pens that I am concerned about the possibility of the beautiful colours discolouring... 2 Parker lucky curve ladies ringtops... a mauve moire and another I can't remember the colour of (it is the better half's after she saw it and went "ohhhhh... that IS pretty!!!")(both great DocNib purchases)... a pale jade marble Parker Lucky Curve with wide cap band in absolutely as new condition with tranparency to the green marble to die for!!! that was a real bargain on the Bay for less than $100... and a jade green Sheaffer white dot Lifetime flattop that is also almost as new (a DocNib purchase at a great sub $70 price)...

as there is no discolouring from the BHR bits on these pens after this period of time I am assuming(!! a dangerous thing indeed!!!) that the BHR has already outgassed what sulphur it could have already or the BHR was of exceptionally good quality and may not cuse any discolouration...

BUT....

the sacs I am not so sure of... and am contemplating getting the silicon sacs for these pens

--- so as not to hijack this thread I am going to start a new one with a very related query on pure latex as opposed to vulcanised rubber sacs which is what I assume the process is with the making of the grey/black rubber sacs ---

I appreciate all the information and advise. What sources do you all use for the silicone sacs?

Thanks,
LEROY

For sacs, I use Wood Bin, but that's because of national feeling.

I second Ernst recommendation. They have a superb customer care. I order "thick" silicone sacs from martin. He told me that some customers keeps on pushing him to reduce thickness on silicone sacs, but I got a whole batch of #16 and #18 that would fail to go back to shape with anything thicker than air. He replaced the entire batch even though I had used some sacs of each size (those pens returned in a hearthbeat to my shop due to filling issues)