No really, this is not a flame thread. i really would like to know. I had never heard of it before I joined FPN in Jan. Today I was in the University bookstore in the next town over and saw some. i got a three pack of notebooks. i read the history. The paper looks and feels exactly like some three ring binder paper I used to write my recipes before computers came along. I liked it because it was non glare, somewhat archival and had copper reinforced holes. I wonder if it was the same stuff as moleskine?

So what can anyone add. Aside from the fact that a lot of dead artists and writers apparently liked this paper when it was made by a now defunct French stationer, what makes it so special that it still holds (or again attracts) so many dedicated users?

As a retired art teacher, I have to add that this would not have been a consideration for me to carry around as a sketch pad.

Personally, I like Moleskin journals and diaries (planners) because they are relatively cheap (not just inexpensive) and not in quality. They are well made, but simple and straight forward. The elastic band keeps things in place; the paper is great for writing; the ribbon holds a place; they're easy to carry.
Some blogs and web sites have lengthy articles on how to modify the journals and some newer editions go too far in my estimation at dressing up Moleskines which completely obliterates the concept.

Summarizing past discussion:

1. Fairly durable covers
2. Fairly good paper
3. Nice paper color (eggshell)
4. The pocket in the back - handy
5. The ribbon closure (not on cahiers)
5. Overall - just a nice package - a journal one can connect with

Anyone else have anything to add?

For me, the appeal mainly comes from the construction. I have no interest in the "image" projected by a Moleskine user or what have you, but I appreciate the fact that the journals are well made. Even though it's not always of the best quality, the paper is a lovely color and the lines are well-spaced and light enough not to draw attention away from the written word. The size is quite convenient, and the binding is sturdy enough that I can drag it around until every last page is full of my scrifflings without worrying about it falling apart on me. The simple design is a nice touch and the fact that they are readily available satisfies my slightly obsessive side - I can rest assured that my journals will be exactly the same for quite some time. I don't have to worry about such dreadful things as having journals of different sizes or - good heavens - different colors. Quite reassuring.

In my humble opinion Moleskins are dreadful, overpriced hype. I tried several, including a full-size year journal. The paper bleeds. As sketchbooks, I agree they are wanting; they have no tooth. By comparison, Nikon makes a pocket yearly diary that is far superior. The paper doesn't bleed and there are enough pages to cover a year and twice as many more for notes. Writing with a fountain pen in a moleskin is trying to make a silk purse out of a mole's ear.

They have a hipster following because, to many people, they are the nicest notebook they will ever come across. If you are not all that knowledgeable or interested in stationery, Moleskins are a step up from anything you are likely to ever use. They also have excellent market penetration in book stores, greeting card stores and the like. Many also like the plain black covers and eat up the "historical" connotations listed in the history pamphlet.

I think you'll find a lot of people here disdain them in favour of nicer products from traditional stationers. Come on over to to the Paper and Pen Paraphernalia and reviews sub-forums and judge for yourself.

As a paper, sketchbook, journal junkie of the 1st magnitude, I'd rank Moleskines at the top of the heap for those points mentioned, and add that it is far more durable in toto than most of the others I've owned in a long life of collecting paper products. Before Moleskines I generally used the traditional black sketchbooks from the art shop, and still have a few that are in use. In comparing those and the black sketchbook made by the Moles, you can see immediately the solid construction.

My black sketchbook is tattered and torn on its spine edges; my Moleskine sketchbook, same length of use, is in pristine condition and unless you open it, you'd think it was new.

Mind, I won't say that Moleskines are the best because there are probably still paper products (journals, etc) I haven't tried.

They work really well with ballpoint pens.

1. lies flat
2. lies flat
3. lies flat
4. hard covers for those times a desk or table is not available
5. not too pretty and fussy looking, workmanlike
6. unruled pages and graph pages available
7. discount coupons at Borders helpful -- I still remember when only one or two speciality stores carried them, so appreciate that they are so available now.
8.almost reaches but doesn't go over the "too thick" standard (I find it hard to write in fat books.)
9. as mentioned, nice size (the pocket notebooks) to carry around

The cahiers (those three to a pack ones ANM speaks of) seem to be much more variable in paper quality, with the back (sometimes the front) or verso page very rough, and I don't like the perfed pages (or at least, there are far too many of them). P.S. Disregard the whole marketing story; it brilliantly uses references in writers' works that actually exist but that do not actually refer to this specific product. Paper with copper-reinforced holes sounds interesting. I would've liked to have seen that.

Before Moleskines, I used to carry around saddle-stitched pocket-sized blank books -- not so easy to find in the olden days; gift shops and museum stores were helpful, I recall. Now they are all over and occasionally I'll go back to them (less heavy to carry in a purse) but I've gotten spoiled by the Moleskine's durability and that built-in hard writing surface). There's far worse paper out there, although I've gotten the occasional notebook that feathers recently.

Left above has it all correct.

However, there's nothing fantastic about them. They work and what works should not be fixed without serious consideration.

44

I wouldn't say they're special, but they certainly have physical attributes that makes them more usable for certain purposes. Others have already made good lists, so I'll say the most important ones to me are the ability to lie flat and the hard cover/elastic combination that makes it durable and easy to carry. I prefer it as my all purpose carry-around notebook, but I prefer other notebooks for any other purpose (personal journal, actual school work, etc). I'm far from being "all moleskine, all the time".

So, not *special*, necessarily, but certainly able to certain jobs better for me than other books.

Old paper that looks like moleskine (to me) with copper reinforced holes. I wish i could still get it.
Click to view attachment

The biggest reason that I use these journals is that I like the size. Most comparable journals are a bit larger or smaller. I also like the format...I love Clairefontaine paper but don't like either the spiral edge or having a notebook that opens from the top. The back pocket , ribbon place marker & banded closure are also small plus' on the Moleskeine journals - but it's mostly the size that keeps my buying more. The paper is not that great IMHO - wish they would do a bit better in that area & it would be the perfect journal for me!

The one moleskine I've encountered (a page a day diary), I rather like. Chemyst and AlphAlphA are probably right about it being a decent but not unduly so brand that's been aggressively marketed over a tenuous connection with Hemmingway, but it's still a nicely packaged item and a better page a day diary than those A5 Letts things, though perhaps not quite better enough to justify the price difference between the two. Still, if they have to play on that to get the things distributed, why not?

I think I have to agree with nolagraph with regards to it being well made. There's purportedly a theory to how the moleskine is made to the golden ratio but I'm not sure I care. The journals themselves are lasting and to me, they are one of the few people who make good plain journals. Can't say much for the paper - doesn't take too much ink or shows too much. Absolutely deplore the sketchbook - very un-fp friendly.

I use a pocket plain for my daily work and all - the back pocket really helps me to store things I often forget - namecards, receipts and all.

Other than that, I will have to find something that suits those points before I jump over. Haven't tried Miquelrius yet

Hi, Alphalpha; couldn't disagree with you more. I use a fp on Moleskines everyday, no problem!

1. Availability- I can get them at two or three local book stores, while Rhodia paper requires an hour-long trip
2. Design- The durable cover, lie-flat design, bookmark, elastic and pocket make it a great notebook. The paper isn't the best, but it is by no means unusable.
3. Professionalism- Moleskines just look plain good in public. The lack of a spiral binding sets it apart from most other notebooks, and the neat, clean and non-ostentatious design just make it stand out as different.

I diasagree about #1 above - they are not that easy to find here in the UK. Also, the price is simply ridiculous : the small size costs £10, which is about 20 usd. For a notebook??

Thanks for the image. I'd never seen notebook filler paper like this before.

Indeed these things are mighty expensive - over 20 dollars, actually, for a small plain notebook. However, marketing hype aside (which is mostly an exaggeration, actually), these things are nice to have because the paper's nice and smooth - a cream off-white - the little back pocket is handy, and the design is just a very simple, classic black. It's also awfully tough, the elastic band is unbelievably helpful in keeping it nice and neatly shut, and the thing feels weighty, unlike most other notebooks of its size.
Of course, it has its flaws. Mainly, the paper's too thin for proper fountain penning, and the price is less than reasonable.

Would I get one? Well, I technically already did, though I would be a bit more conservative with the pages than most other notebooks. It's a good choice, but definitely not the best. In my opinion though, of all the "luxury" notebooks I've seen, this has, hands-down, the best design.

Honestly, I like the pocket size for scribbling out things with a ballpoint. I don't think they'd hold up too well to a fountain pen, especially since some rollerballs I have bleed through the pages quite a lot. Just my two-cents worth!

I'm not terribly fond of cahiers (the kraft-paper covered moleskines), but I just about cleared my local Bargain Books out of hardback Moleskine journals, here's why:

I'm a mom, I do a lot of volunteer work, I run a business -- I'm always on the go. Most books of nice (here defined as "better than a typical Mead spiral notebook") paper just don't hold up to being chucked in backpacks, tucked under the seat of my truck, spilled on, attacked by my doberman puppy, dropped in snow, et cetera. I know there are higher quality papers than Moleskine -- I keep some at my desk -- however, Moleskine is, to me, the ultimate balance between paper quality and portability/durability.

The paper could stand to be thicker, but then the book would be thicker... I need something slim enough to stick in a purse or the flat pocket in my laptop bag. I've experienced the feathering others complain of, but only with one or two particular inks, so those two don't go in my moleskines. I've never experienced significant bleed-through (though, admittedly, I favor F and EF nibs, and a fairly dry line). The hard cover, ribbon bookmark, back pocket, and elastic closure are all wonderful features, often overlooked on other notebooks.

I used to only buy a moleskine every year or so -- the $20 price tag seemed just too much for a carry notebook. However, since I discovered them at my local Bargain Books for $6.99, I've been using them much more.

They lie flat and the hard covers allow me to write on my leg when a desk isn't available. The large sizes are perfect for me.

That's all.

they are nice sized notebooks pretty much that's it for me.

Kurt

A many of you here know, I'd defend Moles to the death, but its hard to define why, exactly:
Yes, they look timeless - the serious writers notebook - no giddy cover designs or colour-edged papers
Yes, the paper colour is just perfect, rich and creamy, non-glare (unlike Melquerius)
Yes, the line spacing is classy, just narrow enough to not look like a school comp book.
Yes, the back pocket is very useful for all kinds of detritus, the elastic means less chance of splayed pages, and the ribbon is somewhat useful.
And, yes (unfortunately) the paper quality is hit and miss. But I forgive them their little foibles. They are not perfect, but then neither are my old FPs, and neither am I!!!

But there is something elusive, that you can't quite put your finger on. They just, for me at least, make that extra connection. Pitting them against some of the modern notebooks out there, even if they are of better quality in some areas, is a bit like the difference between writing with a modern ballpoint versus a vintage fountain pen.

And I disagree that they are hard to come by (in the uk, I think someone said) or that they are expensive. I get mine regularly from Amazon. co.uk when they appear at a resonable price. I've recently paid £6 ($12) for an extra large softback, lined, and £4.50 ($9) for a hardback reporters flip-over notebook (roughly A5) gridded. I think they are well worth that price.

Edit: I forgot to say they lie flat and take a beating like no other...Both important plus points.

Tawanda

I think people have been saying there can be problems finding them in the 'States, rather than the UK, Tawanda.
(edit: no Rique wasn't. Oh well.)

why is it that people who don't like Moleskines assume that people who use them are either misinformed or "buying into the hype"? I use the year planner simply because they are durable enough to stand up to being dropped, scraped, being abused and they are still functional. They a fp friendly enough and the hard back allows me to write or draw on a jobsite without a table. I have no problems finding them and compared to other yearly planners they are really not expensive. What is 10-15 bucks when a Franklin Covey journal the size of a suitcase is 40 dollars or more! I'm sure there are probably better quality journals from Rhodia or Clairfontaine or whoever but no one around here carries them and Moleskine works so why worry.

Because moleskines are overpriced, not strong/able to stand up against daily jeans back pocketing and use awful paper.
Moleskines are € 15 MRSP overhere. Mind you, that is $ 22,50...

I can get the same paper quality notebooks, glued, hard cover, plasticized outer for € 5 or less.
For £ 15 I can get a hand bound (sewn bound, not just glued), goatskin-leather, union-skin/oxford paper 256 pages gilded, 12mm thickness notebook that is now riding 2 months in my back pocket
I had the small Moleskine for 15 euro's and it failed me within two weeks, the book block coming loose from the cover. It's only a thin piece of paper keeping them together. After that I abandoned the Moleskine. I've seen others, who had the same problem, but also have seen the elastic becoming non-elastic.

How do you carry your moleskine? I back pocket it and therefore have it with me always.
When I need a satchel to carry my notebook, it looses part of it's function for me.
I want to be able to get out quick to the little supermarket that is around the corner to get a loaf of fresh baked bread and on the way remember something, jot it down and get on. That is why I carry it always with me, otherwise I can't trust it.


I'm gonna be frank with you. When Bruce Chatwin needs a notebook, he only wanted moleskines. Good for him! But I don't like the salesmen that is selling me my shoes to start yelping about al the famous people that wear those shoes.
I bought a new tweed cap last month and I could buy the £95 Locke Hatters Gill cap, but instead went with a 30 pounds tweed cap from Lawrence and Fosters. They make the exact same quality hats and caps, guaranteed.
When I buy a new polo, I don't need a Ralph Lauren Polo, I buy a 5.11 professional polo that has a pen-pocket up it's sleeve, doesn't need ironing and keeps it's color much longer. Saves me also 150 bucks a shirt.
Some people are against microsoft. I'm not against Microsoft, but I don't like the fact that I needed 9 day's in 4 months restoring my +$3000 laptop computer. I need to use it, not format it every week. AFAIC MS Office is one of the best if not the best out there. So I use Office 2008, even bought it official.
So if in everything I choose, I don't go for the best name, but instead go for the best quality, thoughtfull design and if possible prefer a non-big-name-shouting company with a screaming marketing department, why would I in heavens name buy Moleskine?
When, and only when they start making superb notebooks, I will buy them. But with their name and current marketing, they better start making better notebooks than Smythson's from Bond street at their current price point.

So I do use Allan's Journals and am perfectly happy with them, using one every three months, or when it is busy I use one every two months.

I've got one other question. What is it with the availability problems/preferences?
It would take me 3 days travel to get to the nearest store for my prefered notebooks. So when I used one and knew that I wanted more of them in the future, I ordered another 10. No problem, they arrived within a week by mail. Now I got a two or three year stock. Perfect. 10 might be pushing for some, but if you like Rhodia, why don't you buy three or four of them and you'll have a stack for another year!

Moleskine is very popular and I understand that pencil or ballpoint writing people like them. But on this forum with people I presume as being well informed and fountain pen writing, I still can't understand why moleskin has this many and furious defenders of a hyped product, that does several things right, but at the same time is far from a perfect product.

I use the large (5"x8.25") weekly diary and carry it with me literally everywhere. It has all my contacts, sketches, appointments, notes, etc. I have used them for years and they get dropped off of buildings, used on construction sites and occasionally thrown against the wall and if they didn't hold up FOR ME then I wouldn't use them. I have only had one fall apart on me and that was due to extreme abuse and 11 months of use.

Notebooks are like pens, people have their likes and dislikes. If you don't like the Moleskine product then by all means use what suits you but don't assume that I am an idiot for using them. They are by no means perfect but they are the best combination of form, function and convenience that I have found.


...to each his own.

mike

Well, I've noticed that people on this forum tend to be well-informed via their own experience with paper, pens, and ink, and plenty of trial and error. With that comes the acceptance that you can't have always have *all* the characteristics you need in a journal, but that sometimes, moleskine has more of them for a particular purpose.

I'm not seeing the "furious defenders" thing, btw; I see people sharing their own experiences based on their particular needs.

I would happily use something else if it fit my needs better. I've tried, and I haven't been able to replace the Moleskine pocket sketchbook. The full size Moleskines don't interest me that much because there are different considerations and more choices in that size. The Moleskine pocket sketchbook is the right size for carrying around, I've never had one fall apart in the time that it takes to fill it up, and the paper is totally opaque which means that I can use both sides of a page. They are also readily available 2 blocks away at Borders where I can get them at a discount with the Borders Rewards program.

Hi Limesally,

Perhaps I'm seeing it a bit more colored, but the thing is, I tried the Moleskine of a friend and was so disgusted by them, heritage of famous writers or not, that I really dislike Moleskines.
For me it was the bleeding paper and IMHO rather feeble/shaky construction.
Don't other people have bleeding problems? Even a Vanishing Point EF didn't stop the bleeding in the Moleskine I tested.
Several people have shared the problems with the binding coming apart. A whole lot of people have told about the bleeding.
And these notebooks aren't cheap either. Personally I don't mind paying a good or premium price, but I expect a top of the line product if I pay the premium price.

But you say the people here are well-informed.
Then I can sell them a nice notebook for € 15 without heritage, but with bleeding paper, lots of variation in the used paper per batch of notebooks, and glued binding coming apart.
But my guess is that these people wouldn't accept such a quality or such a price.
So that leaves me with the conclusion that a story about the products of a previous producer of these notebooks who had a large and sometimes famous clientele is worth about € 10 per notebook. Hmm. Thats well informed marketing.

It's now 15 minutes later and I re-read the above. It might seem a bit harsh, perhaps even flaming, but it isn't intended like that.
It's just that I don't understand why I read a lot of people arguing about notebooks that are to expensive at € 5 and on the other hand see people telling
how wonderful Moleskine's are. That seems like a rather large discrepancy in the information people use on their buying decisions.

I've never used the sketchbook, so I can't really judge that one. But just out of curiosity, how do you carry the sketchbook? in a backpocket or in a bag?

How do other people carry their notebook?
Lady's you are out as I often see them pulling a notebook from a lady's bag or alike.
But if you wear jeans and don't always have a bag/briefcase with you, it gets a lot harder keeping the notebook with you at all times.

I know carrying a book in your backpocket is about the most heavy use you can throw at a book; humidity (summer, sweating, sitting on a wet bench in the yard with a cup of coffee, crawling through the casco of a newly build ship inspecting it etc) folding/bending the spine many times when you sit down, it's downright abuse (my 103Kg and then changing position, turning, etc. etc.)

It depends on the season. In the summer I usually wear cargo shorts and carry the notebooks in the side pockets. In the winter I usually keep notebooks in my jacket pockets. In the early spring and fall I keep them in my back pocket. I usually take them out when I sit down. If my wallet was fatter, it might balance things out, but that's not the case.

I recently did some traveling to New York, Chicago, Ireland, and Vietnam. I alternated between keeping a sketchbook in my laptop bag and my pockets. That was the heaviest beating that I've ever given one, and I had no problems with it.

The Romans said, "De gustibus non disputandum."

Around here, we say, "YMMV" ("Your mileage may vary.")

Everyone isn't alike, in their use, in their standards, or in their expectations. That's life. Nobody is guaranteeing that what they say about Moleskine notebooks is the absolute, repeatable, totally accurate, be-all and end-all evaluation of the product. This is a hobbyist/collector board, not Consumer Reports or Underwriters' Laboratory.

Some of us like 'em, and some of us don't. There's not a lot more to understand than that.

I was looking at that notebook, and I realized that the pocket in the back did rip. I had no problems with the pages falling out or the cover coming off though.

Neither, merely that you haven't taken into account the reasons some users are willing to overlook paper inconsistency. Paper inconsistency is almost universally acknowledged, but the relative advantages of other characteristics may sometimes outweigh that. Sometimes. It's been typed out by numerous posters ad nauseum so I don't feel the need to repeat it.

And I don't honestly think anyone give a rip about Chatwin or anyone other alleged personage.

Well, my 2 cents..

I was finishing up my journal last month that lasted about nine months starting last December.
All along I was looking for something to replace it and ended up buying three large sized ruled
moleskins at $12.00 or so from Amazon.com, including shipping. That will last about 2 and 1/2 years.

Some other books I have bought meanwhile were not as ink compatible for feathering and running..

For me, moleskin is good for all the right reasons: price, convinience, availability, asthetics,
durability, ink compatible (MB, Waterman, Parker, Sheaffer, and most kinds)

Alan

I found some Moleskine type notebooks at BooksAMillion last week, they are called Readables. I have not been able to determine any difference in the quality, but I certainly found a difference in the price, the Readables are about half the cost of teh Moleskine notebooks.