Hi all

Ive been reading your psts about how great Pear Tree Ink Samples were and I thought I might grab me some.
I made my choices, pressed checkout etc, only to find that to send $4.50 worth of ink was going to cost be at least $26 (the dearest method was over $60). If my maths is right that's 400% more than the inks themselves!

I cannot believe it really costs that much. Ive bought stuff from fleabay from America regularly and Ive never been charged anything like that.

For example I'm buying three large Apica Journals (6A10) each 100+ pages and the shipping is $14. Im sure these will be much heavier than 4 small ink samples.

To be honest Im really appalled at the shipping charges and very disappointed that I can't (won't) enjoy the experience of trying new inks this way.

Does anyone in the UK offer a similar service, do you know?

Thanks
T

Frankly, I think you would do better to address your question directly to James first, rather than post it here. What do we know? James is a well-regarded supplier. It is entirely possible that the $26 charge is a software glitch, which he can override.

If you look at USPS.com (U.S. Postal Service) you'll see that any trackable service to the U.K from the U.S. is in the range you were quoted. First class mail is way cheaper but it is entirely un-trackable should something go missing.

I can't help but think it must be a software glitch. James is a great seller to deal with - a well regarded seller, and active member here on FPN.

Before you go blasting one of the better online dealers don't you think it might be better to contact him via email first....
His website was recently rebuilt and there might be a glitch in the shipping price estimations for overseas.....
I think you attack on his service is uncalled for as you did not try to get a real answer from him first....

I think this is particularly likely to be one of those bugs floating around in his brand new website that has been up around a month. For a long time, PTP didn't have the capability to do international orders. I second the notion that you should contact James directly. He might be serious about charging that much for shipping to the UK, but I kind of doubt it.

I'd agree with Bill. This may be a piece of the shipping process in the new site that needs to be tweaked/un-kinked. For what it's worth, though, I don't think that James would charge you $26 for freight for an ink sampler. Something doesn't add up here.

I'm afraid these shipping charges are correct. I assume Pear Tree uses only trackable USPS Priority Mail and it's really costly overseas. That's why I still have to prefer fleabay where sellers agree to use 1st Class to cut the total cost for buyer, even risking lost packages. But I understand that online shops can't really risk shipping the merchandise via untrackable mail. I regret I can't buy any smaller/cheaper items from Richard nor Pendemonium nor many other reputable sellers because of this.

"Glitch" = he can send samples via much cheaper First Class Mail, but this somehow didn't make it onto the Web site as an option, or it's supposed to be there but the scripting is screwed up and the buyer never sees it.

Never attribute to policy that which can be explained by software failure. At least not until the vendor has a chance to become aware of the problem.

I kinda think James is the sort of man who does know that $26 for Priority Mail to overseas customers for $4.50 of samples will immediately cost him ink orders. Especially since he has now started serving overseas customers -- he surely intended to sell some goods to folks outside the US.

And I still think it would have been infinitely better to have emailed James first.

His price is right if you want insurance and tracking.

I recently sent a pen to the UK. A 4 ounce package.

With tracking and insurance, it's $25. And a pen is a lot lighter than ink bottles.

If you don't want tracking or insurance, then you could probably ship overseas for about $5.

But most businesses will not ship uninsured and untracked. A customer would only need to lie and say that they didn't receive the package.

And if you really want a laugh...try shipping overseas with UPS. You'll pay upwards of $60 for a pen.

And it's the only option this seller offers
Quite an elegant way to say "I don't ship overseas"

A week or so ago I posted about an eBay seller in UK who charged over $100 to ship a leather wallet, and when I queried the seller backchannel, the reply was that the charges were correct, due to trackable shipping, because the postal system was unreliable.

Donnie

I'd suggest the following policy is probably the one I'd consider adopting if I sold these ink samplers to those in foreign countries:

I'd ship first class and would build into my S&H a small amount that would essentially be informal self insurance. If it would otherwise be $5, I might charge $5.25 or $5.50. I'd then offer a refund if the item is not received. I'd reserve the right to not sell to somebody who has more than x number of failed packages, and I'd keep the value of x to myself.

another one suggesting you contact James first. I had trouble with the automated cart with the previous version of the software, and he helped me out.

That said, it is almost inevitably more expensive to have things shipped to non-US addresses. Not necessarily overseas, to Canada! and we're, like, attached!
For that reason I don't buy small things from US dealers. I wait till I have a whole bunch of stuff to order first, to at least make the shipping worth it.

As others have said, it may be a mistake with a newly-built website. If it isn't, I wouldn't blame Pear Tree.
Getting small shipments from pretty well every US vendor I have looked at* just isn't worth it anymore unless I want to buy hundreds of dollars worth of stuff.

The shipping costs out of US lately have become so high for trackable items that it really is impractical to buy from there anymore. And Canada is even worse.

I can get signed-for items from the UK for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost from North America. One of the attractions of Diamine vs Private Reserve (although I love both brands of ink).
Four bottles of ink from a US vendor about $30. Similar value purchase from a UK vendor about $10.

It's the same with eBay items. It is silly for me to pay $30 or more postage from North America for a $40 P51, when I can get a similar pen from the UK shipped to me for $10.



*and that includes those who are popular and highly regarded in the FPN.

Hi again to all

Firstly I'd like to apologise to anyone who felt I was attacking the owner of the company personally. It wasn't intended to be read that way I can assure you.

I've been having problems with fluctuating postage costs from the USA for some weeks now. I have e-mailed three different pen/stationery manufactures in the past two weeks, querying shipping costs, and received no replies.

On the other hand I've purchased items from people here, and on e-bay, and one stationery dealer in the US, and been given very reasonable quotes. I didn't realise there was such a huge difference between insured/uninsured or tracking rates etc.

As I pay for everything internationally purchased through Paypal, I am covered via their insurance, for loss upto £150, so I am more than happy to have small items sent uninsured or untrackable.

It would help enormously if websites gave buyers the option, especially on lower priced items. Or at least posted some explanation in the shipping declaration. I did do a search for "shipping" regs on the Pear Tree Site, but nothing came up.

Once again I can only apologise to you all if I "spoke" out of turn, I was merely frustated and confused about the seeming inconsistancies the recent quotes Ive had for postal charges, more than anything.

Thanks for all your advice
A very chastened
Tawanda

Yes, Fed Ex and UPS are similarly expensive for overseas. People think USPS is expensive, and it's not that bad, actually.

That $10 shipping from UK, is does that have any of the tracking, delivery confirmation, etc.? If you didn't receive the package, would you expect the seller to take the hit and give you a refund? Not being argumentative here, just curious.

I thought that shipping from the UK was about as high as shipping from USA. At least that's what I've been quoted by some of the UK sellers on ebay for standard registered mail, but perhaps that's only to USA. On pens coming from Italy, I pay the standard fedex price of $25.00 every time, and get it within two days. From UK, Fedex, the quote was $65.00. What is the actual real non inflated price for typical standard registered mail from UK to USA for a single pen (less than a pound package)?

This topic can actually deliver some good information to some of us not so enlightened members here.

Dave

I believe it is.

Also: from the west coast of the US to India is less expensive than from the west coast to the UK. That surprised me.

There was a thread on here some time back (senior moment, not exactly sure when) which posited (correctly, because I checked -- went to college in Mo) that for a 2 oz package, postage was lower from Texas to Australia than for Texas to Massachusetts. I rank that among the Ripley's Bizarre lifetime achievement award candidates.

Donnie

Hey Tawanda,
We were quick to defend James P because we know him.
Pep

I had the same experience with inquiries regarding shipping costs for inks from US vendors: no replies so far. So I keep buying from my UK sources and this means mainly Diamine and Sailor ink.

I would appreciate to have the option to choose between insured and uninsured shipping.
If I am ordering lower value items I prefer uninsured shipping. If I were ordering a valuable pen I might prefer insured shipping.

Shipping costs had been the reason why I was searching ebay UK instead of ebay USA for Parker 51s. I have spent 2 - 4 GBP for a small packet, some were signed in, others were not. I have received all items.

I don't buy inks from the US. The Writing Desk in the UK has a huge selection. It's rare that they don't have something that I want. Delta and MB being the only examples that I can think of.

Shipping can be strange from the US. I have paid under $5 and up to $40, but with the exception of Levenger sellers have always been helpful if I have asked regarding shipping. It seems harder to educate UK suppliers that they don't have to use a courier that will charge £21 to deliver to me when the Post Office will charge £6.50 - grrr!

Shipping & Handling costs not only include the postal or carrier costs, but also the packing and the costs for getting the parcel to the carrier desk. The carrier or postal costs usually reflect the service level that is chosen for the shipment. It makes no sense to have 25 USD shipping costs for 5 USD goods value. In that case I try to work out a cheaper shipping method. On the other hand, if the value comes in the 150-200 USD area, than it makes sense to have an insured, tracked shipment. I keep this rule of thumb for both buying from or selling to the USA

By the way, I have ordered several times at the PearTree Company and allways been offered a choice of shipment levels.

Have to concur that James is one of the world's good guys. However, even inside the US, I wait and bundle orders because the shipping is getting so outrageous.

For example, I've been bouncing a limited edition pen back to the service center for nib/feed problems and have now spent the equivalent of a user grade pen on postage and insurance!

Thanks to all for your comments, and your forgiveness (I hope!).

Andy, I've bought 4 bottles of ink from the Writing desk, and I agree, they are very good there.
But I was disappointed with two of the colours (no-one's fault, just not quite what I thought they'd be like) and felt like I'd waste £10, though I will use them up as Im a "wastenot, want not" kind of gal
Being new to all this, and wanting to find a range of 5 or 6 favourite colours, I thought buying samples would be a good way to go.
I am going to contact Pear Tree and ask about alternative shipping costs for samples, and hopefully, we can work something out.

TTFN
Tawanda

As another suggestion might not someone in the states purchase the ink for you then send it at the lower rate?

The big change in shipping rates for overseas shipping via USPS came last year. For instance, there is no surface mail anymore. To send one copy of Mabie in America overseas is $25.50. It's cheaper per book for someone to buy two copies and have them sent international priority flat rate box.

OK, I happened to speak to James this morning and told him about this problem.
The problem is definitely with the shipping software... for some reason it will not show any other alternative shipping overseas even though he has it built into the program...
So as stated by many of us the problem IS NOT James and his company, but the new software on his website that he is trying to get to work properly....

Thanks, Tom and the several others who contacted me to inform me about this thread and the issue that Tawanda had with my site.

As BillTheEditor pointed out, I recently overhauled the site in an effort to make it easier for overseas customers to order from the Pear Tree Pen Company. Imagine my surprise when I discovered I had inadvertently upset a potential customer. Let me first assure Tawanda (and any others interested) that my goal has always been to offer customers around the world a wide variety of shipping options, including First Class Mail as well as trackable and insured packages. In fact, I recently began offering FedEx shipping (in addition to USPS) as an alternative to USPS.

Tawanda and my other international customers deserve an apology from me. Here I was in ignorant bliss, believing that First Class International was an option they could select at checkout. Unfortunately, as I learned a few moments ago, a recent and unannounced "service code" change by the USPS nullified the selection I had made in my software's "back end." Thus, the only options being displayed were Priority Mail International and Express Mail International.

I think this fits the definition of glitch, as defined by one poster:



Regardless, her reaction was completely understandable. I'm sure that, had I been in her situation, I'd have been upset as well. Luckily, I believe that problem has finally been rectified. Nonetheless, I am sorry that you had to go through this, Tawanda. I hope the experience has not dissuaded you from trying the ink sample service again.

In fact, I recognize that even at lower "First Class" rates, the shipping charges for 4 ink samplers may be prohibitively expensive for many across our borders who want to experience the ink sampler for themselves. I am therefore going to lift my "1 sampler pack per person" restriction for all international customers. If you live outside the US and wish to try the ink sampler, I will now allow you to choose 2 sampler packs, or 8 vials of ink, per order. Hopefully, this will make the proposition of paying international shipping more palatable for you.



This is a good bit of advice, and I'll be sure to remember it myself! Thanks, Bill.


Regards,

James Partridge

PS: As I mentioned, I believe the glitch has been fixed. But if this, or any other problem, surfaces, Please let me know as soon as possible. I'll do my best to address it promptly.

Normally when I reply to a post I will edit out the portions of the original which do not add to the point; however, in this instance, the post in its entirety is entirely (pardon the pun) appropriate.

Although I have yet to make a purchase from Pear Tree Pens, I have watched the posts over the time I have been on FPN, and observed the excellent reputation of James P. This post makes me want to go order something even if I don't need it. This is a sterling example of what an online vendor should be and do. James, next time I need to order anything online, Pear Tree is the first place I will look. Well done!

Donnie

Just an observation............

I am pretty sure that the era of inexpensive, traceable, insured, shipping is over. Although the current problem may have been resolved at a lower cost, that just is not going to be the case in the future. Shipping costs are going to go up and they are going to go up significantly.

Among the factors that are going to effect this are USPS being given the authority to raise rates yearly (USPS as with other national postal services set the floor for international postage), labor contracts, health insurance costs, inflation, international tariffs usually disguised as "fees", and of course energy costs.

I am realizing now how expensive International Priority Mail - I just mailed a very light box to Germany for $24! It includes insurance up to $63... and if it is undeliverable, it will be returned to me.

I received a pen from an American seller this morning, sent to me here in Vienna via USPS 1st class mail. The postage sticker on the package said something like $3.85, and the pen took less than a week to arrive to Austria from the US.

Sounds lovely, but in choosing this shipping method, I basically willingly waved my right to any guarantee that the pen would actually reach me. So, is one being thrifty by opting for a fast and cheap shipping method? Or is one being an idiot for risking the welfare of a precious purchase? Only you can decide that for yourself. But insured shipping does come with a hefty price-tag, so be prepared for the trade-off.

Last week I sent an Esterbrook to Israel. I gave the seller a choice, of uninsured first class for $1.65 over my posted price (which included shipping to US/UK/Ca) or an additional $10.80 for registered tracking (my cost with USPS) which included insurance up to $60. he opted for the $1.65 on a $35 purchase. If I had purchased it, I would have done the same, but I offered, because I sold it, and wanted him to make the decision rather than me.

Donnie

[quote name='James P' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:37 PM' post='697961']

In fact, I recognize that even at lower "First Class" rates, the shipping charges for 4 ink samplers may be prohibitively expensive for many across our borders who want to experience the ink sampler for themselves. I am therefore going to lift my "1 sampler pack per person" restriction for all international customers. If you live outside the US and wish to try the ink sampler, I will now allow you to choose 2 sampler packs, or 8 vials of ink, per order. Hopefully, this will make the proposition of paying international shipping more palatable for you.


Hey James
I live in the "People's Republic of MARYLAND" well at least the Governor seems to be a Communist/Socialist
Does that qualify?

Steve

Hi,

Hmmm, reminds me of the phrase 'we are divided by a common language', I must admit I didn't actually read the post as an attack merely somebody asking, possibly with less a little less finesse/tact than some of us might (no offence intended, I don't want to start another argument) if the charges were correct.

Personally I feel that buyers should be given the option of whether they want tracking insurance etc, quite frankly for the things I buy from the USA, (typically less than $38 to slip below the VAT/Customs etc net) I would rather take my chances with lower shipping if something gets lost or damaged my problem as I chose that option, I am a grown up making my own decisions after all. Personally I wouldn't dream of giving the seller any hassle if this happened but maybe I am in a small minority.

If the article were expensive then I would still like to decide the shipping method (but more likely to opt for insurance etc), I know that a number of reputable US sellers prefer the tracked option irrespective of value because of problems they have had in the past, but would still ask that they offer the option, after all I am paying for the goods/service.

Like others have said I often avoid buying cheap items from the US because of high minimum charges and gave up asking for options having had a few take 'it or leave it' responses (although not from anyone who posts here I hasten to add).

Yes it works both ways and we have the option not to buy if we think shipping costs are too high, just saying it's nice to have some options.

Andy

Can't understand why this query was seen as an 'attack on reputation or anything else'.... chill out guys really

As another UK'er I am also narked about shipping that doesnt give me the option to go cheap.

I completely understand sellers that don't use it (cheap uninsured)- they have a level of service they want to uphold and blahdy blah blah and that's fine. It's simple enough - I shop elsewhere, and I am sure they couldnt care less that they lose my business in the greater scheme of things for such small items. I remain narked that I cannot purchase the items I want but that's my problem.

Several times I have wanted to buy inks or inexpensive pens from US sellers only to find $30-$60 shipping. I do get lucky though - I bought 5 pens from JStationery, shipping was $4 and the package arrived in less than a week. ... much better than paying $26 shipping for something that costs less than $10!!

Unfortunately, the "go cheap" shipping with tracking means that one must stand in line at the post office (for registered mail). It's unreasonable to expect of someone who has a day job.

Without tracking, there's too much risk of a chargeback and losing the stock AND the cost of postage AND the time it took to send it. Also unreasonable to expect, imho.

The best thing to do is to stick to established brick-and-mortar places that deal with shipping all day.

I wish De Atramentis offered riskier shipping options (perhaps I should email them and ask). I would like to try some of their inks, but not *that* much:

http://www.de-atramentis.com/oxid.php/sid/...livery_info.tpl

Simon

mayhaps these two sentences indicate the attckness:







but that is only my ear looking

That's amazing! I was so disappointed only a few days ago about this, but now it's fixed, yay! Expect an order from me.

A very happy elpelco :-)

I don't really understnd the point you are making - we are talking about business sales rather than purchases through personal channels. As I stated in my post I can understand those in business who do not want to use uninsured shipping - it is my choice not to shop with them for smaller items. I do not see it as unreasonable for a business to accept some risk to maintain a client base - especially if that client has agreed to accept any potential loss in transit.

As far as individuals selling pens privately - from your comment I think probably the US postal system works differently to ours. Here we stand in line to post a parcel regardless of whether it is first class, insured, uninsured, whether we have a day job, a night job or no job.... that's how things are mailed, you take em to the post office. I know I can print postage online now but it still has to be taken to the post office and handed over (for anything that needs a receipt and wont fit in the normal box at least).

At the end of the day if you don't like standing in line at the post office - dont sell things via mail order that have to be shipped..

One more question: what is the quantity in the bottles?

It is more than enough for a couple of fills of a piston converter. Although to get the last of the ink, you will probably need to use a syringe to place the ink into the converter -- or put the converter mouth directly into the ink.

hehehehe I've jsut noticed your signiture line - inconvenienced electrons - I like it!!

Cool!
Thanks.
By the way, I hope you don't mind, I 'borrowed' your signature for my MSN name.

i just wanted to say...

james, you really are an amazing person and an amazing businessman. cheers to you!

jack

It's ok. I stole it from someone else.

sorry to continue the postage issue but I made an unpleasant discovery the other day - for packages under a certain weight/size, only first class mail is available to Canada. This discovered *after* someone had ordered from me and paid for priority postage. This was a package size/weight/format I have mailed in the US as priority mail on numerous occasions. I don't understand that at all. I can send Priority across the ocean or within the country, but not across the border?