An ink can be offered that washes off EVERYTHING...not only paper, but hands, cotton, paper, everything you can think off...with just water. It is the weakest and lowest value add ink I've ever witnessed...fades before sunlight in less than 2 hours exposure...making it almost as weak as "disappearing ink". Of course, it would render a fountain pen nearly useless vrs. just about any rollerball and ball pen....but it seems there might be a market for it after reading a few of the more recent posts here (although test marketing a few months ago indicates nobody would buy it thus far). Would those concerned about ink being "too much like a real ink" be interested in such an "ink"? If so...you'll see a sad & tearful catfish on its label, but because somebody wants it....we'll make it anyway in the cause of better selection. Ink selection for the fountain pen should be as vast as its capabilities...even if some people can't determine the difference between inks within the same brand of ink. A Toyota Prius is not the same as a Toyota Land Cruiser...now is it? Yet repeatedly inks that are VERY different are lumped into the same category just because they are the same brand.


Also: an ink to refill markers with friction fit sections and sponge based reservoirs (similar to the most popular one out there that will remain unnamed). The ink writes on plastic, glass, packing tape, metal, just about any surface. It was made because there were several people who requested an ink to keep their markers alive for 8 to 12+ more refills before the disposable units finally truly needed to be disposed of....and of course it would cost less than tossing them out every time they dried up. This ink would NOT be for use with fountain pens and would say so on the label in extremely loud lettering.

Should we continue to seek new uses in inks and specifically for fountain pens - as well as markers, ink filled rollers....or just quit and make the weakest inks in history for the sake of this canard being touted around by a pretty firm 5% or so of the market?

We now have a biodegradable ink for use in a biodegradable pen....I'm not kidding....you might see it sooner than you think possible. Alas, if the pen manufacturers all went the way of biodegradable materials....I am sure some people would desire an ink so incredibly weak as to kowtow to the lowest common denominator of pen quality and durability....and to not cause anything in the ink to affect a pen made of easily stained corn starch. I still believe variety is the spice of life and it is my hope that we will continue to live in a free society where greater consumer selection is a goal worthy of capitalism itself. No lines for a single type of bread as in the former Soviet Union...but entire stores with hundreds of types of bread and not a single line of more than two people in length.....and consumer selection at the click of a mouse for hundreds of different varieties and properties of fountain pen inks from every era dating back a century and right up to the most recent ink technology. Is that not better than the lowest common denominator in ink ONLY?

Agreed, I for one don't believe that the traditional limits to fountain pen utility should apply if anyone can help it, and it's always nice to have options, in any case.

As for a washable, impermanent ink, I can't honestly say that I'd be interested, but that doesn't mean other people aren't, particularly those who wish to get their children started early with the best type of writing tool. Perhaps you could call this new series of inks the "Tears" series, starting with the deep, dusky green "Tears of the Crocodile", followed by the ocean-blue "Tears of Atlantis", and the blood-magenta "Tears of the Amazons".

What he said. Plus -- a super washable ink sounds like just the ticket for introducing a bunch of kids to fountain pens at one time, or for letting them try out dip pens and old-timey writing. You could just hose them off afterwards.

That is a very good point. That point alone makes it worthwhile. Although I recall the smell of vintage ink at such an age and that the very fact it could stain with such potency made it even more appealing - the modern situation probably warrants something far "safer". Blue Ghost is only there when you turn on the black light, but is then next to impossible to remove from cotton (and though you don't see it, you'll know it is there anyway). An ink that washes off cotton and fades quickly before UV light could have its uses, some of which I fear would not be good (such as writing a check with such an ink on purpose). Ever hand somebody writing you a check your own pen because they were using a nearly dried out old felt tip?

The memory of any vintage 1890's carmine bottle with the typically angled metal spout and tiny hard rubber top cap lined with metal...and the wild labels (angry cats, roosters, and sea creatures)...it is wonderful nostalgia. If only it could be re-created in such a way as to appeal to the next generation of pen collectors/users with as much magnetism.

NOTICE: Please forgive my opinion, if it is politically incorrect. I mean no insult to anyone with this post.


I admire and respect Nathan's philosophies a great deal and I love his inks. But I do not believe we need to have an ink "especially for children". I believe that kids need to have the truth of life before their eyes, to learn and know how to handle a fountain pen along with what happens if they mishandle the pen and ink. It is my opinion that no kids who are so young that they have not developed enoughhand and eye co-ordination to do so without spilling. Children ought to be adult supervision until they have reached an age and understanding of proper chemical handling so as not to create any possiblity of harm to themselves, clothing, carpeting and furniture. Kids need to learn and not be coddled by some of the conserns of modern day society where no one wants to take responsiblilty for their own actions. (This is a generalization and is my own opinion.)

In this, children in Europe start using fountain pens much, much earlier than American kids. If they are ever exposed to FP at all. These Europeans haven't (to my knowledge) asked for a special ink for their kids. We might want to start kids off with cartridge pens they can handle on their own. But in the beginning, adults ought to be with small children while they are using FP's to teach them how to hold the pen properly, to allow it to glide over the paper not pressed into the paper. Help them to learn better hand writing as they are most likely not going to get handwriting in the American school system these days. (A very definate disservice to our kids and to society that won't be able to read what they right.)

I believe that teaching your child to handle and write with Fountain Pens is an amazing opportunity for parents, grand-parents, aunts and uncles to have a wonderful connection to the children in there lives during their formative years. We don't alway get these kinds of opportunity with kids. I am so very grateful for the time I get to spend with my six year old grandson. He loves grandma's pens and he loves ink. I want him to learn how to write cursive and to have nice neat handwritting. He doesn't have to have a caligrapher's hand, but it can often be a first impression as to the type of person they become. Neat handwrtting is now just about penmanship, but discipline along with hand-eye coordination and devotion to a job done well. Think about that application they are going to fill out for their first job! It isn't always going to be some big major corporate place where computer applications are taken. It is probably going to be some small local place where they had you an app and a pen. I think about it every time I see you young person sitting in McDonald's, Hardee's or where ever they have that first handwritten application in front of them.

Friday night we were both covered in Pelikan Turqouise when between us we accidentally distroyed a brand new Pelikan M625 I had received as a gift. He had it in his hands and while capped for transport upstairs his little hand let it slip and it hit the kitchen floor with a mighty thud. We thought is was okay, but when I cleaned up the ink splatter we thought was a result of ink escaping the nib in the fall, we found a crack in the resin. I wiped it off and started to write with it. As I put the nib to paper the entire nib unit snapped off allowing the ink in the pen to go everywhere.

The ink cleaned up off both of us by the end of the day Saturday. The pen, well, it is going to have to go to Chartpak for repair. The key thing I learned from this is that: Firstly, I am responsible for the entire situation in that I allowed him to be carrying the pen. Secondly, it was an accident. Thirdly, he has punished himself far more than I could ever do. The poor kid is devistated that the pen is broken. And because I have told him he can't carry my expensive pens through the house to go to our "writing room." He is limited to carrying his Pelikino's and his Safari, all of which he is allowed to handle on his own. So far, we have had no ink problems on clothing or furniture. Inks on the kitchen floor (Baystate Grape) and on the living room carpet (Sequoia Sepia) are my accidents.

So, my thought on this topic is: Let us not ask Nathan to spend his time and resources on an ink that will have very limited use and let him spend that same time on creating his next great advance in the chemistry and dying of liquids we will all want to have a bottle of in our future to share with the wee ones when they are deveopmentally ready for them.

Please pardon me if I climbed up to high on my personal soap box!

Have a great day and I hope all you inky people are looking forward to the new Fountain Pen Ink Sampler coming soon.
Kass

I'd like an ink that can easily be washed off hands and other surfaces with just water, but the fade quality of the ink would concern me. If its possible to make an ink like this that won't fade in "2 hours" then I would be game. Inky fingers are kind of annoying

I'd generally agree, with the exception that introducing a group like a grade-school class or cub scout pack to "ink pens" seems to call for something super washable, since the kids will probably be sent home to be washed by someone else, someone who probably isn't interested in fountain pens.

Obviously Nathan needs a sorcerer's apprentice.

I think that those types of inks are already available: Pelikan Royal Blue, Quink Washable Blue, Diamine Washable Blue, Scheaffer Skrip Blue and there are probably others. In my experience, these may not completely wash off of finger tips with one washing with soap, but they rinse right off of surfaces and wash out of fabric completely. The trade off is a greater propensity to fade, but not in two hours. In a closed journal, not in 20 years either. These are good products for everyday use where long assured permanence or being waterproof is not critical, and they don't cause problems in any pens of which I am aware.

Nathan has developed a different set of products from these washables, and we're richer for it. Unless it's something he wants to attempt, I don't think that Noodler's needs to make an ink for every purpose. His bulletproof and non-bulletproof inks offer a color selection and saturation that are probably unique (although I haven't tried all the brands).

I'm mildly put off by the extreme political correctness of your disclaimer!



Actually, despite what I said earlier, I sympathize a great deal with the philosophy you've described. In fact, I feel the same way about firearms, which even children could handle safely if they've received the proper training. However, I don't think it's common for people to take pens quite as seriously, and as we all know, it's a lot harder to be "safe" with pens, even for adults. Accidents will happen from time to time, and for ephemera like shopping lists and handwriting practice (for children and adults), some people may prefer to use a minimally staining ink.



Well, nowadays, yes. I for one certainly prefer the tradition followed by some European and other countries of requiring students to use fountain pens.



Sure they have--their children typically use easily washable blue colors, just like American children did a few decades ago. There's even a special marker they can use to chemically eradicate this blue dye, although subsequent corrections would have to be made using a different type of ink. What we're talking about in this thread is Nathan potentially making an even more washable ink in a wider range of colors (because he's just about the only ink innovator around), if there is a market for it. Otherwise, children around the world will continue to use the same old washable, erasable blue inks they've been using.



Unfortunately, the same phenomenon is occurring everywhere, although a few other countries have taken steps to correct it.



They may not be able to read what they write, either. Sorry, had to.



This sounds wonderful, but I'd still feel better if the ink wouldn't stain as much.



Like I said, I wouldn't be interested in these ultra-safe inks for myself, although I'm curious as to whether there would be sufficient demand (doesn't appear to be the case so far).

I would think the fading ink would be a great teaching tool. I think I'd suggest trying one color out to see if it sells. Since there are washable blues by the ton, I'd suggest something in fading red or black would be the most preferable.

I like the marker ink concept, too. I know of a judge who signs all orders in black marker for whatever reason. He might be receptive.

I'd like an ink that is initially washable, then after about 10 minutes it becomes permanent. THAT would be cool.

I'm also of the opinion that there isn't a need for a "teaching ink." If kids don't get the sense of how an ink can stain, they won't develop the appreciation for the care in writing with the nib instruments. That should be impressed upon them at the beginning.

But my main concern for highly washable inks is the fading... although that can have some "vintage" appeal, if the fading gets extreme then it would be very undesirable.

When I talk about teaching purposes, I don't mean teaching to write. I was actually thinking how cool it would be to be able to give a kid starting out with multiplication a bunch of sheets with problems on them that they could solve, could have graded, and could then be ready to do it all over again the next day.

i don't want to comment on the yammering about youth, but would like to suggest that a very good use of this ink would be for people working on topic secret information. Most of us don't work on such matters, but there are indeed plenty of entrepreneurs, government workers, spies, and revolutionaries who burn or shred their documents shortly after use, to prevent their ideas from getting out.

I'd worry about the difficulties in marketing to the proper users, but I suppose if it doesn't happen immediately, at least it will be great to know the ink has been made and will sit on a shelf until the proper neo-Bolshevik needs to make a temporary map of the Kremlin so that they can sneak in and steal the plans for....

Wait, maybe this ink is for criminals? (In that case, I can think of a LOT of fun label/name concepts!!)

Nathan, has anyone ever done detective work to see how often nibs leave imprints on paper when writing with Blue Ghost?

Nathan, please keep making weird inks. I like the idea of an arsenal of inks that do different things. It's like a lockpick kit, or a toolbox, or a jar of assorted buttons or differently-sized screws.