Dear fellow FPNers,

the purpose of this post is to enlighten you about the issues involved with using Noodler's Baystate inks. Today, I came across a yellow Lamy Safari and all three Baystate inks: Blue, Concord Grape and Cranberry. Curiosity overcame me: I had to determine the staining issue first-hand.

After dipping a piece of tissue paper in Baystate Blue, I smeared a small area of the Safari's cap with it, waited 10 seconds, then attempted to remove it. I commenced with dry tissue, then wet tissue, then water, and finally diluted bleach. This was repeated with the other two inks. Here are the results:

Click to view attachment

A close-up. From L to R, Blue, Cranberry, Concord Grape:
Click to view attachment

You may notice 'Baystate Blue Stain' written on the Safari's barrel in the first image. This was done with a dip pen. As usual, I did not apply any pressure: the nib barely touched the plastic. Ten seconds later, I could not remove it, either.

So what can we conclude from this outing? Avoid using the Baystate line of inks in a yellow Lamy Safari unless you're indifferent to the staining issue. This could occur with other pens, so employ the inks judiciously.

As you may recall, SamCapote informed us of his less-than-pleasant experience with Baystate Blue and a yellow Lamy Safari. That thread did not end well. I request your co-operation in ensuring this one stays free of personal attacks and emotion-laden posts. Your personal experiences [especially with other pens] are most welcome.

Cool, tattoed pen

I am glad you did this. It occurred to me to try this but I did not have a Safari. If you still have the pen, it would be interesting to dab on a few other inks from other companies and see what the results are with "regular" inks on this plastic. Maybe soak the feed for a week in BSB and see if the plastic really weakens. Interesting. jc

I've had BSB in a Safari for a couple of weeks -- no problems.

Apparently we have an ink that is permanent on that plastic. Have you tried it on any other plastics?

possum hill--- Interesting. I had no trouble accepting the staining story but the idea that the ink destroyed the plastic feed seems a different claim. j

now you should try to get it off the pen....we can find the best method to do so and solve these staining issues.

When I bought my third Safari I found I couldn't push the nib off the feed with my thumbnail and had to resort to the tape technique. Manufacturing variations may lead to some nibs applying much more pressure to those thin wings on the feed and that might lead to breakage.

Try some rubbing (Isopropyl) alchohol and some qtips. I had a red safari that I stained with BSB. I removed it with the rubbing alcohol. Alcohol won't affect the BSB on paper, but it did remove the stain from my pen - along with a little of the red pigment as well, and dulled the finish of the plastic slightly.

I've been hearing less of the feed issue recently; perhaps something's changed?

Nice demo!

Here's what I found as well: BSB and old style Pelikan M200. BSB stained the pen on the outside- there is a ring of blue where the cap meets the barrel. I just got done flushing the pen, which took a lot longer than usual, but I am afraid that the clear ink window has now a blue hue.

Thank-you for the information and example.

Same with Baystate Blue in a yellow Safari as yours. For that reason, and even more because of the feathering, I've not used it since in any pen. Interesting that the other two stain as well.

Simon

==

Best idea yet. Think I'll buy a white safari and tattoo it with the Baystate inks I ordered.

NATHAN!!! Do a Bay State Orange, so I can do my hair

I wonder how successful it would be to prepare a dilution of BSB and dip an entire yellow Safari in it. From what I have seen of the stains, I think I'd like the result.

I have been using BSB in a Taccia/Swisher for 3 months- initially, I managed to rub some ink into the intaglioed "Taccia/Swisher" on the barrel- took me three days to get it out- water, dish detergent and sweat. Hardly a Churchillian note, but it did come clean.
Love the color- and I will get to love the discipline the ink forces me to observe: no more sloppy fills, writing off the page, or filling on an oak table.
One of the few times I can claim to the youth- just do it-
alas------
Tony

Good idea. I would advise against using acetone, though, as it is known to dissolve ABS. Perhaps you could leave the pen in the sun for a while to see whether the stain fades before the pen's own color does; then again, this would probably take too long. I'm not sure what else to suggest besides the usual solvents. It might be interesting to see whether a different non-Safari-staining ink could help remove the Baystate inks.

Ha! Now that you mention it, BSB-colored hair would be cool, except that it doesn't come off skin as easily as hair dye does.

You might end up with an interesting mottled green. Not sure I'd go that far for unique, though.

Try some cleaner with bleach, like Fantastick. I found that it took off Baystate Blue with startling quickness.

The staining behavior of BB led me to to sell mine, it wasn't for me.

Skip

I intend to do this. After all, we need to determine whether the yellow ABS is particularly vulnerable to staining per se, and which other inks can stain it as instantly.

That said, I have tried a huge variety of inks, and none have stained so rapidly or stubbornly as the Baystate inks. Other inks do stain, but they take much longer.

IMO, the 'Ink Stains!' warning on the label is ambiguous and discreet. It needs to be better worded and prominent so the buyer can make an informed decision. The rich colours sell themselves, but I wouldn't wish this surprise on any pen owner.


No, but I will on Safaris of other colours.


The challenge would be to remove the stains without affecting the finish. Let's see what can be done ...


Exactly! I didn't see any reports about the others' staining properties, so I had to find out myself.


BSB is the only ink that took 3 weeks to come off my skin and fingernails. I shampoo my hair every day, and every other ink stain completely disappeared after 2 to 3 sessions. My right middle finger now sports Cranberry. Let's see how long that lasts.

Thanks for the information and good timing! I have a BLUE Lamy Studio filled with BSB and think that is where it will stay. I did notice the ink wiped off the chrome section without a problem. And, I found another use for BSB. Writing labels on recorded compact discs. The ink is permanent (stains) on the polycarbonate and makes an interesting looking label.
-Jay

It's a vintage formula, therefore, people with new production pens should stay away from BSB. That way people with proper fountain pens can enjoy it

Seriously, though, it's a shame that such a beautiful ink is so caustic. Does anyone know of its effects on BHR, RRHR, or even something like Jade or Lapis celluloid?

Seems like a job for the Snorkel

The new production pens I have used it with, such as a Platinum Preppy and a Waterman school pen, and a Phileas, write with it beautifully with no apparent staining. I see no reason to try it in a light-colored Lamy because (1) I don't care for light-colored plastic pens except for the transparent Preppies; and (2) I don't have any--and have no desire to buy any. (Heck, I can get a dozen Hero 616s for less than a Lamy.) I would have no hesitation using Baystate Blue in a metal pen, such as my Rotring 600s, in addition to the others mentioned.

My advice would be that if you find this ink attractive and useful, use it in an appropriate pen. Some cost less than the ink itself. (No problems in a Hero 616.)

Of course, it you are more interested in a specific expensive or vintage pen than the ink, then just use Waterman's or Diamine and don't take the risk to play around with unusual inks, unless you want to create a psychodelic decorated pen. Nothing at all wrong with any of these approaches. I just happen to be a person who is more interested in what my writing looks like than what the pen looks like. For some purposes, Baystate Blue is exactly what I want, and I find that at least some "new production pens" work very well with it!

I had a problem with the plastic part at the top of a 616 cap (that the jewel screws into). It crumbled on me, and it was covered in ink when it came out. It very easily could have been a design defect, but I am also not ruling out it being the BSB given the other issues that have been mentioned.

Having read about some of the nasty staining issues I decided to ink up my Lime Green Safari with BSB. I did however find it very easy to remove the stains from near the nib, on the green section of the pen. I moistened a Q-tip and put a bit of Comet cleaner on it (this works very well removing BSB from the kitchen sink). With a little fine scrubbing the stain was remove completely from the plastic part of the pen. I don't know why this same method wouldnt work with other Lamy colours. I'm also not sure of the long term effects of this on the plastic.

Just my $0.02

i've not noticed any stains with bsb in my blue safari.

Has anyone tried a light sanding with micromesh before a buffing pad polish?? I am curious how deep it has been drawn into the plastic.

Good suggestion, although I think that a jewelry polishing cloth (e.g. Sunshine Cloth) should be tried first, followed by a rouge cloth if that doesn't work, followed by Simichrome polish, and then finally the micromesh.



Hopefully one of the mild polishing methods mentioned above will remove the stain while leaving a finish that looks as good as new.

FWIW, if anyone has one of these stained pens that would like to see if this method would work, I am willing to give it a try. As long as the stain is topical and not in deep, a light sanding (micromesh, very fine stuff) and a polish on a clean buffer might just make it look like new. Also, because this is a trial, there will be no charge to give this a try. I have sanded many pens to repair damage and as long as you know what you are doing, there is no way you can tell it has been done. Looking at the pen, I do not believe the ink has stained deeply into the pen material.

One think that could be an issue is with threads or the section design, I am not 100% positive where the normal ink stains seem to be from use.

Anyway, send me a PM if anyone wants to give it a try, I am just curious if it will work myself.

PS, I should mention, as noted above... sanding is a last resort to be tried. I will work my way thru a few steps before I get to the micromesh and the buffer.

By the way, I thought I'd mention a couple of cleaning products specifically designed for inks:

Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze
INK-NIX

These are well known, of course, but I hadn't seen them mentioned earlier, and I wanted to make sure that we didn't overlook them. In a previous message, I had also suggested using other non-Safari-staining inks as solvents, and it just occurred to me that vintage Quink with Solv-X might be a good candidate.

Many thanks for the thread. I have a yellow Lamy safari that I had flushed then soaked overnight in water with a splash of windex. The entire pen took on a dusky blue colour. I had tried several solvents to remove the ink. Today, I took the suggestion to use alcohol and a 99% solution of anhydrous alcohol removed the stains after quite a bit of vigorous scrubbing. I love the way Noodler's flows and takes to the paper, but I don't think I'll be using it again.

Good point. Here in Oz, no one sells micromesh so I took a nail buffer to the stains. After five minutes, I was left with an almost stain-free [and gloss-free] Safari. Only in one spot did the ink go deep enough for me to not bother.

Photos to come later.


Keep in mind that no other Noodler's [other than the Baystate series] exhibits this 'quirk'. I've tried most of the range, and they've all been safe and well-behaved in my experience.

As already mentioned, the Baystate family is entirely different chemistry from the other Noodlers inks. I use the other Noodlers inks in pretty much any pen I want to, but with the BSB inks I'm quite selective about which pens.