There seems to be a current fad for one or two commercial sellers of vintage Conway Stewarts to put the pens on the dreaded for a very high 'Buy it Now' price.

I'm not sure any of these actually sell and my cynical mind wondered if they were seriously intended to sell.

A number of years back old Bentley 'R' Series cars, smaller than usual Bentleys but still luxurious, were plentiful and cheap to buy. An individual bought up as many as he could and recouped his outlay by scrapping almost all of them. The remainder were now rare, worthy of restoration and his depleted collection worth many times the cost he paid for all those old bangers.

I wondered if it has been considered worthwhile advertising a flood of CS pens, they all seem very nice but not all are rare or valuable, at highly inflated prices to kick-start an increase in value of CS pens by giving the impression of high value. The resulting value of the stock increasing by far more than the cost of unsuccessful ebay ads.

It was a thought. Beneficial for some, maybe, not for others who, like myself, like to tinker with vintage pens but do not want to commit a big budget for investment and so would stop.

Any thoughts?

Greg

If you go into advanced search, and check the completed items only box, you can find out if the pens in question are actually selling.

Donnie

QUOTE

I wondered if it has been considered worthwhile advertising a flood of CS pens, they all seem very nice but not all are rare or valuable, at highly inflated prices to kick-start an increase in value of CS pens by giving the impression of high value. The resulting value of the stock increasing by far more than the cost of unsuccessful ebay ads.

Hello Greg,

I don't know your knowledge base for vintage Conway Stewart fountain pens or what models you feel are being placed for sale at such unreasonable prices, so it's difficult for me to understand your position. What I'm saying is that you didn't qualify your statement.

For example, what amount of vintage Conway Stewart fountain pens do you consider a "flood of pens"? When I last looked at the CS offering this Monday afternoon, there were 18 available from US sellers and 29 from international sellers. (There were 59 for "Buy-Now", but only two of those were vintage.) Waterman fountain pens on the other hand had 430 units for sale, Parker had 1185, and Pelikan 169 units for sale. And all of these were from US sellers - exclusive of international sellers. And the numbers have been similar to that for the last 2- months that I've been tracking them.

Also, what models do you think are being offered for too much? And in what state of repair are the writing instruments? Again, and just for talking points, if a seller is offering a restored model 58 with just a little high point brassing on the pocket clip, that pen is worth $150 or more depending upon its pattern. The there are the 60 executives and 60L models worth the same amount. The model 55 is a large executive model made by Conway Stewart and the model 84L series in casein - all these models are worth $150- $225 restored and in excellent condition based upon pattern and nibs.

Then one has the model 388, 27, 28, 15, and 12. Once again, depending upon condition and pattern, these models are worth between $75 - $135. The models 15 and 12 were made of casein. So if one were to acquire a model 15 or 12 on very good condition on would have a very nice fountain pen. The Model 27 was based on the Model 60 and is a big thick pen with a large cap band and typically wonderful semi-flex nib. Those are great pens.

I don't see a lot of these pens available and I look for them. I do see some sellers offering them for sale at higher starting prices, but those reflect the fact that those particular pens are restored and sold by reputable dealers - those pens are worth the money if one understands what one is purchasing.

I have quite a few vintage Conway Stewart writing instruments that I've collected over the years. I've studied the pens and the company to some extent. It's not my impression that folks are trying to "kick-start" an increase in the value of vintage Conway Stewart writing instruments. Quite the reverse I think. The cost of these writing instruments have been much too low for years - at least in the American marketplace.

I always find it interesting that a person will spend $100.00 for beat up Parker Vacumatic that may or may not work, but when it comes to a Model 84L Conway Stewart in reversed cracked ice casein and fully restored (a $165.00 value) they won't give you $50.00 for the pen.

You mentioned that the Conway Stewart pens aren't rare. I'm not certain on how you based your statement, but I will say that Conway Stewart, to my knowledge, never made the quantity of pens that Parker or Waterman manufactured. And yet, ones sees statements of how rare those pens are. The Conway Stewart pens are in fact rare. I have never seen more Conway Stewart pens offered on eBay than of an other manufacturer. The ratio of this afternoon is a great example. Besides, they aren't making them anymore.

So, Greg, I don't know on what you based your premise, but you it might be guided by what you call your cynical mind. I hope not.

Peace,

Phroneo

Why is it a problem? If it's not a price you'd pay, don't.

If it were less expensive, it'd probably have sold already.

They are mostly passing now, however here is a typical example:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-CONWAY-STEWA...p3286.m14.l1318

Here's another:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-ENGLISH-CONW...p3911.m14.l1318

By 'flood' there were, perhaps 20-30 over a few weeks against a background of ~60-70 for sale. Waterman, Parker etc will have many more for sale as they have been making mass market pens continuously, CS stopped 30 odd years ago and the modern CS pens are hardly mass market and often sold in places other than ebay.

Regarding rarity I mentioned that not all those in the inflated Buy It Now category were rare. Of course, rarity is relative, the No.1 Duro is considered rare, a no. 12 isn't as they are still easy to find. However both these were manufactured in a fraction of the numbers some of some of the Parker models. Similar comments apply to 'valuable'.

Regarding CS pens having value which is 'too low', I'm not sure how that works. Its value is what someone will pay. Many more people will pay for a Parker than a CS. Demand drives price. CS (and many others) made some wonderful pens which are are sold for lower prices than others for various reasons, a simple one being colour. Black, for example, will have less value than silver herringbone.

Against the values you suggest what do you think of the example I gave? Of course, if I find them expensive I wont buy them, but that's not my point. I wondered if they were offered seriously expecting a sale or to create an impression of high value. I carried out the 'Completed Sale' search, suggested by Donnie and found none had actually sold (a few high priced modern CS had, but that's to be expected, they are high value too!)


Greg

Hello Greg,

Now you put in some qualifiers, which is a good thing. Still, an individual listing 20 -30 CS pens in a "Buy Now" category targeting the European market doesn't constitute a flood of pens - nor, do I think, does it amount to an individual trying to influence the marketplace.

Do I think the seller is asking too much for those pens? Of course I do. And apparently so do others because they haven't sold. That's the benefit of being able to watch the "Buy Now" sector - one doesn't have to purchase and if one does, it's buyer beware. $520.00 US for a CS 85L in casein is more than a bit too much - it's laughable.

I think with the example you've given as your concern for someone (and even if it's two or three more sellers on the European side of the ocean) is more a function of your self defined cynicism than an actual concern for an unreasonable market shift.

But you do bring up a very valid point. Vintage Conway Stewart writing instruments have been grossly under valued. A good point in case is the model 58. In my opinion, the vintage model 58 is a much better writing instrument than the current batch. I can qualify that by saying that I have three modern Model 58 fountain pens with matching rollerball or ball point pens. I have about 25 restored (by me) vintage model 58 fountain pens and eight of those have matching pencils.

The modern and vintage 58s are the same size and, I think, very close to the same weight. The nibs are vastly different. I reach for my vintage model 58s before I reach for my modern pens because of the way they feel in my hand and how the nibs feel on paper. Asking $400 for a new Model 58 is a reasonable thing to do because that is the going price. The vintage pens are worth every bit of $275. However, folks won't pay that for the vintage 58 pens yet. And that is flat out not right - they're a better pen in some ways (in my opinion) than the modern Model 58.

But you may have a good point about trying to influence the pricing in the marketplace. Maybe I should consider putting up 50-75 vintage CS fountain pens at prices that undercut your friend in Europe. Let's see now, how about a series of nice CS 388s between $250 and $295? Humm.....

Peace,

Phroneo

Envious of your choice of pens Phroneo!

When I open the CS section of the dreaded there are at least as many of these over-priced Buy it Nows than others. The use of the Buy it Now in my point is that the seller can declare a 'value' for the item not leave it for others to decide. I think that by putting up a large number of pens over a long period (the 20-30 ware concurrent ads for CS alone, there are many more for other pens) - you'll note that they start at 70 odd days, clearly not expecting a quick sale! - will give a false impression of value and, eventually, will change people's expectation. An 85L for 'only' £150 will seem like a bargain!

I'm afraid the more I think about it the less serious these ads are for sales appear to be (unless they think that by putting them up for so long some clowns will eventually buy one or two) and the more I think they are part of a ploy.

Its certainly not as much fun as putting hopeful bids on old an Duro that its hoped no-one else has noticed!

Still not sure vintage CS pens are undervalued, offer excellent value against their modern counterpart and other pens, certainly, but then, I suppose, they are in two very different markets.


Greg

Hi,

Not all this sellers pens are BIN, he does normal auctions as well (as I am sure you have seen), I have bid on a few but they always go for more than I am prepared to bid. Pens generally are restored and the higher value ones I think still come with a 3 year guarantee.

I think some of his BIN prices are rather high (but then I am not a CS expert), but the pens usually sell so somebody must think they are OK, biggest surprise recently was a couple of Burnhams with a BIN price of approx £140 each which both sold. I only have a couple of Burnhams, both quite nice pens one in VGC the other good but with a loose pocket clip and they each cost me the right side of £20.

He often has nice Vacs as well, so I generally keep an eye on his auctions.

Andy

Perhaps they are merely hopeful attempts at getting a massively high price for some of their better stock.

I suppose I just didn't like the thought of inflated values being advertised for items in which I may be interested.

Someone PMed me to say that the seller in the examples I gave is actually located in HK, despite stating in the UK and that his ebay name is derived from his address in HK. He had won a pen from him, in the normal way, and reported it to be fine with good service.

Going a little adrift, I have a couple of Burnhams too, 3 in fact, also the right side of £20. They are very nice, one, a 'cooking' B48 has a sublime nib and another (an older, peak top type simply called 'The Burnham') is wonderful. In fact I did a review of it a while ago!


Greg