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Sailor Kenshin
*sighs*

As if writing left-handed isn't bad enough, lately my hands fatigue easily and shake a LOT. And to make matters worse, I used a brush-pen. (Although I do really, really enjoy playing with my brush-pens). I don't know if you can read what I wrote but two are Sai watercolor brushes, and the other is a plain ol' Elmer's kiddy brush pen---I love the Elmer colors!

Are these at all legible? Would tracing the characters help me get a 'feel' for them and should I first master them with a pen or pencil? (I should probably also use gridded or lined paper).

Thanks for any and all comments.

Randal6393
Not bad at all -- better than my first attempts with a brush by far. Have you attempted the inkstone and stick ink yet?

Joozu ja arimasu.

Randal
Sailor Kenshin
Nuuuu!!!! Not the dreaded ink stick!

Thanks. The brush gives me trouble enough, and I have a really hard time telling whether a stroke is just embellishment or a vital part of the character.
Sapphire
My Japanese friend said she'd have no trouble at all reading your kana.

Standard w/c brushes don't have enough spring in them, says Setsuko-san. She suggests a real Japanese writing brush and ready prepared sumi ink or a Pentel brush pen.

Setsuko-san also suggests writing one character on a sheet and making them much larger. Japanese calligraphy uses the whole body and mind and spirit in harmony.

She's usually right about these things - she can prepare tea as well!
Renzhe
QUOTE (Sailor Kenshin @ Jul 22 2008, 07:52 AM) *
Would tracing the characters help me get a 'feel' for them and should I first master them with a pen or pencil?


Kenshin,
(Note: Chinese dude here.)
I can read all your kana. "剣心" is also legible. Have you looked at the kanji from which hiragana originate? They can help you get a feel for hiragana. As you might know, hiragana comes from kanji written in cursive script, and then truncated some more.


For example, take a look at あ. It comes from 安, pronounced "an" in on-yomi. If you write it a bit faster, you may merge the first dot with the fourth stroke, as shown in red under 安. Also, the last stroke bends down because that's naturally where the next character begins. Speeding up a bit more, you may truncate the roof radical into one horizontal-ish stroke, while also merging the second and third strokes of 女.

It would not be unreasonable to assume that hiragana is meant to be written quickly, for it is clerical script sped up many times.
(This table shows regular script, which may midlead one to think that cursive script came from regular script. Actually, from clerical script came cursive script. From cursive came semi-cursive. From semi-cursive came regular script.)

Edit: correct info about the origins of cursive script
vermiculus
I know no languages apart from English, but I really enjoyed that bit of knowledge Renzhe!
Sailor Kenshin
So did I, Renzhe! Thank you---I'm going to try to print your chart. thumbup.gif
tisfortorrey
QUOTE (Renzhe @ Jul 22 2008, 02:28 PM) *
QUOTE (Sailor Kenshin @ Jul 22 2008, 07:52 AM) *
Would tracing the characters help me get a 'feel' for them and should I first master them with a pen or pencil?


Kenshin,
(Note: Chinese dude here.)
I can read all your kana. "剣心" is also legible. Have you looked at the kanji from which hiragana originate? They can help you get a feel for hiragana. As you might know, hiragana comes from kanji written in cursive script, and then truncated some more.


For example, take a look at あ. It comes from 安, pronounced "an" in on-yomi. If you write it a bit faster, you may merge the first dot with the fourth stroke, as shown in red under 安. Also, the last stroke bends down because that's naturally where the next character begins. Speeding up a bit more, you may truncate the roof radical into one horizontal-ish stroke, while also merging the second and third strokes of 女.

It would not be unreasonable to assume that hiragana is meant to be written quickly, for it is clerical script sped up many times.
(This table shows regular script, which may midlead one to think that cursive script came from regular script. Actually, from clerical script came cursive script. From cursive came semi-cursive. From semi-cursive came regular script.)

Edit: correct info about the origins of cursive script



Wow, I've been studying Japanese for 8 years, and I have to say, not a single one of my sensei has ever bothered to mention anything like this! Thanks for educating me biggrin.gif
Renzhe
Well, I'm not surprised. Many language teachers don't know the difference between teaching a first language and teaching a secondary language. As many teach their mother tongue, they teach it as they have learned it. For example, it would be pointless to teach a bunch of little American kids that the alphabet they use stems from Egyptian hieroglyphs. They would probably focus more on teaching these little kids to be literate.

However, while teaching a second language, I believe it is well worth it to bring in details about history and etymology. For example, while teaching a Greek high schooler English (if I could), I would tell him about how the Latin alphabet stems from the Greek alphabet (which stems from Egyptian hieroglyphs).

Oh, and Sailor Kenshin, are you keeping the brush perpendicular to the paper? One should only deviate from the upright position temporarily, if at all. Also make sure you're holding it right. Here is one correct way.
Sailor Kenshin
Thanks for all of this! Not only did I print the page, I copied the chart by hand (just for fun).

I'm going to have to pay attention to how I hold that brush.

Heiroglyphics? Srsly?
Daosus
If by Egyptian hieroglyphics, he meant Phoenician hieroglyphics, then yes. Phoenician hieroglyphics morphed into an early alphabet, then were adopted by the Greeks, then the Greek alphabet was adopted by the Romans. That's essentially the one we use now (although lower-case letters were developed during the Middle Ages).
Renzhe
The Phoenician alphabet is a continuation of the Proto-Canaanite alphabet, which is a descendant script from the Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Taki
剣心,

I can read all your hiragana, too. I don't like writing with brush pens as I feel like I don't have as much control as regular pens/pencils, or brush. There are different ways (or different degree of cursive-ness biggrin.gif) in hiragana, too. I tend not to join two strokes of ら and り, as I feel that would improve legibility.

Hiragana was made from 草書, and it was meant to be used by women (yea, men thought women are too stupid to use kanji rolleyes.gif ) Hiragana - Wiki
Daosus
QUOTE (Renzhe @ Aug 12 2008, 08:38 PM) *
The Phoenician alphabet is a continuation of the Proto-Canaanite alphabet, which is a descendant script from the Egyptian hieroglyphs.


Oh, I didn't know that! Cool, thanks. thumbup.gif
shadowsforbars
Thanks everyone. An art and history lesson all rolled into one.
Renzhe
Yo! I found this guy (or girl; can't really tell) on Youtube writing hiragana. He's like...teh pwnage with a brush!
Here he writes the first 5 hiragana, showing their origin. You can find the rest if you look through his videos.

He also does katakana; and imitates Ouyang Xiu's 楷書 and Wang Xizhi's 行書.
Immoteus
QUOTE (Renzhe @ Aug 14 2008, 01:13 AM) *
Yo! I found this guy (or girl; can't really tell) on Youtube writing hiragana. He's like...teh pwnage with a brush!
Here he writes the first 5 hiragana, showing their origin. You can find the rest if you look through his videos.

He also does katakana; and imitates Ouyang Xiu's 楷書 and Wang Xizhi's 行書.

The OP has very good brush control! I wish I could write like that! I should probably start with a better brush...
Randal6393
Wow! I wish I had had a master of calligraphy to study under while I was learning Japanese kana! The sensei is a wonderful master.
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