Dear FPNers,


I'm thinking of purchasing digital photo camera for pens closeups and I'd appreciate a lot good advise in that (and sorry if it's wrong place for asking about that).

I presume such parameters combination:

• [mission-critical, quite obviously] ability to make closeups mainly because of extremely short focusing distance – from 3-5 centimeters (30-50 mm.). When I'm thinking about closeups I mean up to large-scale pictures of separate pen parts and details – like nibs etc.
• respectful producer (like Cannon, Nikon, Minolta, Sony);
• price between "reasonably cheap" (say from $200) to "reasonably expensive" (say up to $700 although I'm able to go above that a bit, but not too far to save more money for pens ).

As an advise I need just to know the exact model name (presumably with reference to personal experience of it usage) and I'm not going to bother anybody by requests on best price seller and things like that.

I have only one suggestion so far –taken from FPN and although it sounds good for me (in terms of exactness of model name, 50mm. small focusing distance, producer reputation and price) I'd like to get some more options. A lot of thanks in advance.

Any Canon, Nikon, Pentax, with micro focus should be fine. The key is with macro focus is keeping the camera still so a small tripod would be good. I have a Canon digital SLR with a Sigma macro lens, and an older Canon s45 with macro focus, both work great. Oh and you can probably do it with out a tripod but then look for a camera with image stabilization but this raises the price.

Thank you and special thanks for spotlight on small tripod usage - I will keep that in mind visiting shop for camera. And yes, Pentax is respectful manufacturer as well.

Hi, I use a Canon Powershot A-720-IS, it has a superb macro mode with a min focussing distance of 10mm, it cost me around USD250, but I believe it is much cheaper in other countries.

All the best,
Hari

Oh my God - "focusing distance of 10 mm"! I chechecked it on the list of local sellers, it's a bit more expensive here in Ukraine, but the price is good!
Thanks A LOT!

If you were in the US I'd sell you a nice little tabletop tripod, used to do a lot of macro/product photography myself and have a few tabletop Manfrotto tripods for sale. If interested and inside the US, feel free to contact me directly.

Oh thank you, although I'm far from US (Ukraine) but I will think about that.

If you have to buy in the Ukraine market it might be better to do this the other way around, list whats available and then get the responses here.

If they are available, you might look at the Canon G9. It has a larger sensor, a 1/1.7". I believe most of the A series, which are fine cameras, have 1/2.5" sensors. Not sure how "mission critical" your going, but if it is really important I would look for a use APS size sensored camera (most all slr) and a macro lens from the used market.

good luck

I recently bought a Canon A650 IS. Its macro works from 10 mm onwards. I took pictures of nibs, very very close and they were sharp and full of details. Besides, not only works in automatic but also in manual mode. It is 12 MP camera and I paid 322 dollars including the memory (I bought it in Argentina, at eBay should be cheaper).

Thank you, I've noticed your work already and included Canon A650 IS into scope

..and if the camera lets you, either shoot in raw (many newer Canon P&S have this feature, or you can download that hack, and I think most Nikons do as well) or turn down jpeg sharpening as much as possible, then learn about sharpening techniques on the web and do your own sharpening in Photoshop or similar software. Yes, it can be a lot of work, but the results can be stunning and really make the camera sing.

Thank you for very profound advise.

I'd take a risk to say that almost all cameras are available here, but most rare and latest perhaps .
So it's not relistic to list them all.
As for today the scope of my search proces includes (all listed are available here):
- Canon PowerShot A650 IS (1/1.7" sensor)
- Canon PowerShot A710 IS
- Sony DSC-H9
- Sony DSC-H10

I will add Canon G9 to that list now.

As to your advise regarding "APS size sensored camera..." I don't think that it's so critical while price expected to be significantly higher and things like "macro lens" are badly availble here no matter from the used market or not.
So in this direction I (after your hint ) started to think only about Sony DSLR-A100 (body!) as I have film Minolta SLR and one of the zoom lens from it has buil-in macro (I mean that Sony are ex-Minolta, so lens-compatible).

If you're serious about pen photography, you might want to consider getting a digital SLR with a dedicated macro lens. The quality and control will be unmatched when compared to a point-and-shoot. Why? Because the sensors in SLRs are much bigger and less noisy, and the cameras' hardware/software doesn't tamper with the images as much to reduce noise, improve sharpness, or automatically adjust colour. That is all up to you. Plus you have complete control over focus, aperture, white balance, light sensitivity, and the ability to create better lighting easily through the use of external, adjustable flash units.

I notice that you don't have Olympus on your list. Olympus makes one of the best-reviewed macro lenses (as they should, since they also make some of the best-reviewed microscopes), the Zuiko Digital 50mm. It's expensive, though. The next one down is the very inexpensive 35mm, which takes incredible pictures as well.

You can pick up a slightly older or even a used body (E-330 would be ideal for what you're doing, especially if you are used to the LCD viewfinders of point and shoots) for a very good price these days. The newer cameras like the E-410/420, E-510/520 are improved slightly but probably not enough to justify the cost of a camera that's going to be taking pictures of pens most of the time.

Olympus has its quirks but it is a very new and easy system with not so many products out, and any lens you buy will be top-notch.

Of course the big boys, Canon, and Nikon, are just as good (better in some cases, ex. sports photography). However they have flooded the market with so many lenses and camera bodies that it's difficult for a beginner to approach. Plus, some of their lenses are not as high quality as others so you do have to do a lot of research before you buy.

Just food for thought.

Neill

Neill,
Thank you very much for your input which gives a lot of food for brains. The only problem that I was not able to be patient enough to wait until your input arrived (see below )




That was my very first thought but I stepped back because of price having the idea to save some money to be spent for pens
Regarding "being serious..." I mean just the possibility to make pen pics exposing/interchange (with FPNers first of all) without necessity to put wording like "sorry for poor picture quality" each time.




So after I stepped back from new SLRs (and passed the second-hand ones as there is no good choice of them and you can badly rely on them here) I proceeded with my research drilling for compromise: cameras which might have only a bit bigger sensors than "point&shoot" ones but much better lenses and much better "control over focus, aperture, white balance, light sensitivity" (I was ready to sacrifice "create better lighting easily through the use of external, adjustable flash units" and I did so).

And you're right - it seems almost impossible to comprehend (grock ) all that Cannon stuff and I was upset because I presumed from the very beginning that some Cannon will do best for me.

So after all I suddenly (even for me) switched to... Panasonic because of Leica lenses and pretty much possibilities to keep software and hardware under control and Panasonic DMC-FZ18 is in my hands now to play with.
I just purchased it so it's too early to say how I will feel in couple of weeks - this or this (if not this ) way.

Anyhow thanks again for your very informative input - at least I will know where to start if Panasonic will brake my heart and/or other newbies will grasp the point.

Pavlo

I use a Canon 5is, but I don't know if the macro is close enough for you.

Here's a sample:

Panasonic makes quality cameras

FZ-18 should work out fine for macro work.

Most important will be the adjustment and diffusion of the lighting lighting, using a tripod or equivalent, and stopping the lens down to get as much depth of field as you need for a particular image.

Technique is more important than hardware.

Looking forward to seeing a few posts.

Best of luck.

I don't have any models in mind, but look for cameras with Super Macro. I believe the Canon Powershot A400+ series has those.

Oh yes, this is exactly what I mean as macro so this macro is... macro (macroish? ) enough for me.
By the way, I like your photos on Flickr (pens devoted as well as other).

See enclosed my try of nib macro, inspired by yours (it's your macro far on the backplane ).

Thank you for cheering me up, I appeciate.

Yes, the most important thing - to master camera. It's exactly what I'm busy with.

Most point-and-shoot cameras have a macro mode available. Some of the best pictures you see in these forums and on Flickr are probably more the result of good lighting and the use of a tripod. The nib picture taken by @ethernautrix above illstrates how paying attention to lighting can really bring out the fine detail in close-up shots .

The sharpest ones come, of course from a DSLR with a true macro lens, but that's a whole other obsession .

Well, I do have experience with film SLR and I do know what that "whole other obsession" is, hence I really feel pain of budget limitations…

From that old (film SLR) times I know that tripod usage is a must for macro, but the lighting is sort of tough. What was really surprise for me that not only metal but plastic (resin etc.) parts of pen is both shining (so create blinks in bright light) and reflecting (on their surface) things that are all around. See below how not only metal parts but totally black cap surface of Montegrappa Nero Uno reflects picture (brown leaves) from wallpaper which is more than 1 meter from pen.

Someone else mentioned "Super Macro." That's what I have on the Canon 5is. Thank you, pavlosh, for your kind words! (thumbs up!)

Anyway, I've had gratifying experience with Canon and Nikon, for what it's worth.



Well... that was an outside shot, and try as I did (given that I didn't have A LOT of time to do it), I couldn't get the sun to glint off the very point. Alas.

I have a DSLR, a Nikon D80, and I thought... macro lens or a camera with Super Macro and 12x optical lens for more casual shooting...? And I opted for the Canon 5is point-and-shoot. The best shots -- taking for granted the composition -- are taken with tripod and remote control. If you have the time and the inclination.

Probably I'll get a macro lens for the D80.

And maybe a Lensbaby...!

I've recently aquired a Panasonic FZ-8 and it works very well from 50mm distance in macro. To increase lighting diffusion (as RLTodd say) I've purchased on ebay a Raynox DCR 250 Super Macro lens (I've found it for 40€ from a powerseller in Poland called foto-tip) that is compatible with all cameras with thread 52-67mm, and you can make macro shots at 200-300mm distance with great results. Furthermore he gives you a minitripod as a gift...

FWIW......

If one is interested in taking close up pictures they might look around the Internet for the articles about jewelry photography. I would recommend paying particular attention to the writings on the lighting of small shinny objects.

As you go further into it you will find discussions of "ring lights" for flat even lighting. Personally I don't care for them as they produce doughnut shaped highlights, but some people swear by them.

Lighting and desktop photography setups need not be expensive. You can get publishable quality results with home made equipement and care. As with most things, it isn't the hammer, its the carpenter.

Best of luck..............

Sony T-10. At release was $349. Now probably can get for <$200

regards
david

APS-C sensors are just fine for the imaging of pens and jewellry, full frame sensors are nice but an expensive addition. Check out my flickr collection attached here, High end collection of Fountain pens. All images were shot with either a 28-135 Sigma macro lens which is not highly rated, or a 105mm Sigma macro lens which is one of the best they have produced. All images were shot with a Nikon D80 and off camera lighting with softboxes, umbrella's or a white ceiling as diffusers.

David, FWIW Sony makes the sensors for Nikon, so they are very similar. Now, the new D700 FX full frame looks nice, but at $3700 or so for a body is out of my reach. For the imaging I do I would be hard pressed to see a difference, but I will still try one out and if the difference is as big as some say it will be I might invest in one.

Canon currently only makes 2 full frame sensors, the aging 5D and the 1Ds MKIII which is a 22 mp camera which rivals medium format digital. Of course the MkIII is a huge expense, well over $10000 IIRC. The 5d is getting cheaper as people wait for the inevitable replacement now that Nikon has brought out 2 full frame cameras.

The best pen photographer in the business AFAIAC uses a Canon 5D. Check out Bill Reipel at Running Dog studios. Running Dog Studio His work has been a huge influence on my shots, which is probably painfully obvious.

For the casual user though, the largest benefit of a DSLR is the quick focus, fast shutter operation and the ability to tune your camera to the image you want to take. The quality of the images for web purposes is just fine with a point and shoot, but those camera's are rather slow to operate compared to a DSLR. My findings were though that the DSLR bought for pen imaging is used much more than our point and shoot, and for everyday imaging. I went on vacation to Florida this spring and in a week took 4000 images. Not all were keepers but darn close. By comparison, we took about 200 with the point and shoot.

Ring lights are great for portraiture of people, and hugely popular at the moment. I do not find them that useful for product imaging. Softboxes, snoots and flags are the weapons of choice for product imaging AFAIAC. Also check out strobist.com and the flickr strobist group, the information there has catapulted my imaging from snapshots to what they are today, which I am pretty proud of.

Tripods are mandatory for good blur free imaging. Low ISO is also a need, 100 or 50 is even better. If you have a tripod and use timed shutter release, with diffused lighting you will be amazed at how good an image ANY camera can put out.

Cheers,
Sean

Hi Sean,

Don't get me wrong. I well respect the quality and flexibility offered by a good D-SLR.

I guess my point in this (and in the currently adjacent) camera-for-pens thread, is that many people really are writing a "gee, i wanna take pics of pens" note, followed- perhaps in overkill fashion- by "which D-SLR is best?"

Just as buying an imagined $500 tennis racket (same kind used by, say, Federer) for 8 year old Billy's first tennis lession probably will not be the key to a good backhand, so too is the power of a grand D-SLR potentially both unecessary and indeed sometimes distracting from the process of taking good pen shots.

I'm... prolific... at shooting pens. They have found several key outlets (check out every Stylus Magazine and upcoming PENnant for example), but my images are still amateur-ish, with technique honed by trial-and-error, not formal classes, and of less skill than those by Riepl, Clark and yours, amongst others. Still, they serve the purpose.

All my flat "catalogue" style shots are done with what now is a 7 year old camera pair (the Sony DSC-S70 and S-75) that cost about $700 7 years back, now would cost about $35 if one could find one, and which pack just 3MP, F-8 Max, etc.

The angled and macro shots are on my two year-ish old Sony T-10 7MP which- unlike the older DSC-S70's even lacks full manual control.

The Parker 51 nib shot above was done with T-10. T-10 has AMAZING close-in (i prefer close-in or close-up to "macro" for such camers) power. The shot above was far from maximum macro. It is just a crop (no resizing) from original image covering about 2.5" of pen cap. I could have gotten closer.

No ring light. No flash at all. No tripod. Just a top mounted portable lightbox- free standing- on my desk with my hand gently braced against edge of lightbox.

My key message to would-be pen photogs, is consider getting a simple camera- older model or used- with understanding as to the features, particularly close-up power and degree of manual settings (exposure, f-stop, "iso"). Then, learn how to use lighting, which is far more important than the overall megapixels of the camera. Then the D-SLR game can be considered, once one exhausts the power of the point-n-shoot, such as when one wants depth of field, even with good lighting, that is precluded by the f8-11 of most point-shoot cameras.

Indeed, it is possible that the complexity of D-SLR (which until quite recently even precluded one from seeing on the monitor what he would be shooting, due to lack of live-view) will sour one on the process of pen photography, whilst starting with a very basic point-and-shoot and learning lighting will allow one to learn the process rather than get bogged down with camera.

That said, i am currently considering Sony A350 (easiest live view) and Canon XSI (weaker live-view but better CMOS per-pixel sensor). I note that a 50mm macro will run $400+ in addition to the $700-ish camera.

regards

david

Hey David, I totally agree that one does not need a DSLR for images of pens which are static and can be setup with care. For that a DSLR is total overkill. I originally bought my D50 (upgraded later) to take better images of my daughter, as I found I was missing shots due to the lag associated with P&S camera's. I had a Canon S3 IS and loved it, but it was too slow. Often managed to image a streak of my daughter while she ran out of frame, which was frustrating. The D50 solved that, but again overkill for pen images.

I was only attempting to help the OP determine what their needs would be IF they decided to go the DSLR route. Truth be told, I am totally ignorant of P&S camera's at this point. We have an Olympus one which is waterproof and shock proof to certain limits, which is good. Lauren has had it in the pool and I used it underwater while in Florida. I could not even tell you what model it is, 850 something or other.

I might take a couple of images with it tonight and then with the D80 in the same setup. I would be surprised if anyone could pick out the difference on a computer screen if I do my part.

Oh, and while I do not have live view on my D80, I can shoot tethered with the laptop which is darn near the same thing. Pretty cool stuff.

Cheers,
Sean

Although I appreciate a lot your informative comment and please have special thanks for so many details on source of your Super Macro Lens purchase but I'm curious (meaning I'm not sure) whether I need such Lens as my Panasonic FZ-18 works from 10mm (!) distance in macro from the box and "very well" will depend more on my skills than something else (my first experiments show that).

Thank you very much for your comment.
Both
- "it isn't the hammer, its the carpenter" (my grandpa used to say that) as an approach/attitude ;
and
- "lighting of small shinny objects" as particular focus
are my main things in nearest time.

Thanks again!

FWIW

If I were going to buy that SLR, and the reason I was buying it was for Macro work, I would buy the 100/2.8 Macro instead. It costs another $250, or so, but if not dropped these things last for decades.

Both lenses will do 1:1 for close work but the photographer can back away twice the distance for the same image. This has two advantages,

(1) The camera/lens has less chance of casting a shadow on the target.

(2) The perspective is a bit better, and their are less chance of getting distortions (the dog's nose on the lens effect).

I think you'll love the DMC-FZ18. From what I've read, it's one of the best cameras of its class, and very versatile. When my uncle decided to switch from film SLR to digital, he bought one of them, and he's very happy with it. It's very similar to an SLR in many ways, but is a lot more forgiving. I've heard that the DMC-FZ18's ability to capture colour is almost unmatched.

A few others have said that the camera doesn't matter, it's the skill of the photographer that makes the difference. I totally agree with this. But macro photography is a bit special, because some cameras just aren't designed for it. You still need the right tool for the job!

Neill

Thanks again, Neill