(Edit: corrected the spelling of Nathan Tardif's name. One "f.")

As we've discussed many times, different types and brands of paper allow different performance from the same ink and pen, and we've traded reviews and advice on choosing paper.

I have more choice over ink than over paper, especially at work.

We could discuss how various inks perform on loose fiber paper,
which I define as paper that is more likely to allow fountain pen ink
to bleed through,
and/or to shadow (soak in without bleeding through, but enough that it's undesireable to write on both sides),
and/or to expand (uniformly) from the mark laid down by the pen,
and/or to feather (expand out irregularly along fibers).

Tight fiber paper does not allow any of those behaviors to happen with any fountain pen ink.

Examples of loose fiber paper include
newsprint paper,
most cheap writing pad paper,
most cheap notebook paper,
most cheap loose-leaf binder paper,
most single-purpose laser printer (or single-purpose dry toner copier) paper,
some card stock,
Moleskine notebook paper (new stock),
and kraft (brown paper bag or brown package wrapping) paper.
Price, thickness, weight and the presence or absence of the "recycled" symbol do not always predict looseness or tightness. This is why I'd rather choose ink than choose paper.

Within the same brand of ink, some colors could perform differently than others.

The following inks do well for me on loose fiber paper:
Under Noodler's own label: Noodler's Black (cellulose-reactive), Blue-Black (a mix of washable and cellulose-reactive) and Eternal Luxury Blue (cellulose-reactive);
and Levenger Raven Black.

The following inks do not do well for me on loose fiber paper:
Noodler's, manufactured exclusively for Swisher Pens to super-fast-drying specifications: Waterproof Glacier Blue (cellulose-reactive; it spreads and shadows, and can bleed if too much is laid down);
Levenger Cobalt Blue (which shadows and bleeds);
and Levenger Cocoa, Fireball and Gemstone Green (which shadow, bleed and spread but don't feather or hardly feather at all; Cocoa is the most aggressive of these three).

(Swisher Pens sells Noodler's own label in addition to two different and Swisher-exclusive lines of super-fast-drying ink manufactured by Noodler's. Furthermore, Swisher Pens' own washable ink, designed by Noodler's inventor Nathan Tardif exclusively for Swisher Pens and not labeled Noodler's at all, is also super-fast-drying and poor on loose paper. This is all carefully explained on www.swisherpens.com.)

What about other colors and brands on loose fiber paper? I'm especially interested in the performance of low-cost brands: Parker Quink, Sheaffer Skrip (Slovenian), Pelikan, Waterman and Diamine.

(edit: finished after accidentally pressing the "enter" key too soon)

Before I discovered Noodler's, I used Pelikan inks (blue, blue-black, black) for years on cheap recycled paper and for the NY Times crossword, and they performed well for me. Pen was a Waterman Hemisphere with Medium nib.

More recently, I tried Skrip Blue (Slovenian) on the same type of recycled paper and the crossword, and it also did well. No problem.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that blue inks look bluer on NY Times newsprint? For the life of me, Skrip Blue on the crossword grid is the spittin' image of PR DC Blue. And dark blue inks, like Noodler's Midnight Blue, look less blue-black and more blue. To my eye, at least.

I've noticed that newsprint makes rollerball, gel, fountain and felt-tip pen inks appear darker than on "writing" paper. It must be a physical property of the paper.

I never ever use fountain pens in bad paper. I use rollerballs that take fountain pen ink.

Here are the brands

Ink o Sphere
http://www.tryphon.it/pens/borghini/v68.jpg

Pelikan Roller
http://www.pendemonium.com/

Rollink
http://www.stylo.ca/home.cfm?pageId=listep...&CategorieID=69

Interesting idea, Anne-Sophie ! I had forgotten about that type of pen. I've seen such pens advertised.

The one which Levenger listed a couple of years ago was described and shown in the photograph as containing replacement section & point assemblies in its original packaging, with the explanation (right there in the listing!) that the points are not as durable as fountain pen nibs! My guess is that Levenger chose that configuration in order to prevent unnecessary customer service expenses.

The Ink-O-Sphere, Pelikan Roller, and Rollink, at the links you kindly provided, are not listed with extra section & point assemblies.

How long have the points on such pens lasted for you?

I'm still hoping to avoid ball-type pens altogether. I just received the manifold-nib (designed for multi-layer copies) pen I bought from Antonios Zavaliangos. Furthermore, Noodler's Black and Blue-Black have done excellently for me from fountain pens onto bad paper.

With some paper, it doesn't seem like any ink works without bleeding and feathering. However, the least bad inks I have found for cheap paper are (in no particular order):

Noodlers Black
Waterman Florida Blue
Aurora Blue
Sheaffer Blue
Lamy Blue-Black

I haven't tried other colors by these companies except for Noodlers so maybe something like Waterman Blue-Black or Lamy Blue or whatever would also be ok. I haven't found another Noodlers ink besides black that doesn't bleed on cheap paper.

Nothing I've tried from Private Reserve works well on cheap paper, though I have found that mixing PR inks with about 2/3 ink 1/3 water makes them work pretty well and pretty quick drying as well (this might work for any dark or saturated ink and doesn't really seems to make the ink on paper look much different, only very slightly lighter).

Parker Quink Blue was better than most inks I've tried, but definately bleeds more than the others above. The worst inks I've tried for bleeding have been the Swisher quick drying inks and the Swishmix inks.

John

Thanks, John!

I agree that Swisher-branded inks are not for loose-fibered paper (expensive or cheap), which the Swisher people themselves are prudent enough to explain on their website, even helpfully suggesting brands and models of good (and reasonably priced) paper.

I'm expecting some Noodler's Walnut, Red and Standard Green ink to arrive this week. I'll report on how they do for me on loose-fibered paper.

I'm glad to know that Sheaffer (Slovenian) Skrip Blue (corroborated by Viseguy) and Waterman Florida Blue are good for this.

John, you jogged my memory very helpfully.

I have used Lamy Blue in a Safari Medium on loose-fiber paper with excellent results (no bleeding, no shadowing, no spreading, and no feathering),
and in a Safari Extra Fine with so-so results (shadowing or bleeding if the point passes the same spot too many times, moves too slowly or pauses too long).
I think the flow rate through all Safari nibs is the same, while a wider nib spreads the ink out so that more of the paper can catch it and keep it on the written side.

Furthermore, not only do I remember using Sheaffer (Slovenian) Skrip Jet Black in a Sheaffer Javelin Fine, as reported elsewhere around here, but now I also remember it always going onto loose-fiber paper with excellent results.

I have to agree there. I just bought some Swishmix Tahitian Pearl. I like everything about the ink, but I have to be carefull what kind of paper I use it on. Luckily it's great on nice Bristol Board which is my main use, but I was hoping to use it for my main every day ink. I'll stick to Noodler's Black for that.

The Swishmix Seminole Sepia is a little better behaved but still works best on good paper.

They do dry fast!

I generally won't use a FP on bad paper, they tend to grow a beard......bad enough bad paper will clog regular ballpoints.

-Bruce

I changed my mind and got Noodler's Standard Brown instead of Walnut.
The Noodler's Standard Brown, Standard Red and Standard Green have arrived.
They are now in my
Pelikan M200 fine (non-East-Asian scale),
Duke Complete Esteem (fine, East Asian scale)
and Hero 329 fine (East Asian scale), respectively.
I also bought a bottle of Sheaffer Skrip (Slovenian) Blue from Vroman's, the Pasadena shop.
It is now in my Lamy Safari extra fine (non-East-Asian scale).

I've written these inks from their pens onto three loose-fiber papers:
Newsprint (New York Times; I didn't buy it, it was discarded paper from the 12/16/2005 issue),
Office Depot Envirocopy Recycled Copy Paper (white) (it was free with inkjet cartridge recycling, but it's proven not to be inkjet paper -- hey, it was free!),
and Office Depot brand, white, legal-lined, letter-sized, notepad (staple-bound at the top and perforated for tearing off) paper.

I don't have any digital imaging equipment (my cell phone's camera doesn't count).

On the notepad paper:
Bleeding: None. If I make a special effort to scribble on the same spot over and over, I can cause bleeding, but that would be true on almost any writing paper.
Shadowing, most to least: Noodler's Brown, Noodler's Green, Noodler's Red, Skrip Blue.
Feathering: I can see a tiny bit when I look really closely, in the same order of ranking as for the shadowing, but it's not enough for me to care about.

Concerning shadowing, even the Noodler's Brown shadows less on this paper than Levenger Cocoa and Levenger Gemstone Green do. This paper can't take two-sided writing legibly except in pencil, light-handed ballpoint or a dry-writing and super-firm and super-fine fountain pen like the Esterbrook 9450 nib & feed assembly in my SJ.

On the copy paper:
Bleeding: None, but a special effort causes it.
Shadowing, most to least: Noodler's Green, (yes, switched rankings) Noodler's Brown, Noodler's red, Skrip Blue. On this paper, all of these inks shadowed less.
Feathering: Again, not enough for me to care about, but it does follow the ranking of the shadowing on this paper.

On the newsprint:
Bleeding: None, but a special effort causes it.
Shadowing, most to least: Skrip Blue (yes, switched rankings again), Noodler's Brown, Noodler's Green, Noodler's Red.
Feathering: None, but marks in Noodler's Brown and Skrip Blue do expand under slightly more writing pressure.

None of these inks beats the others in this set, but they do pass. Skrip Blue seemed to do better than most, and it's cheaper per milliliter. I'll be content to scribble notes on loose-fiber paper in any of these four inks.