Whats a good, well behaved blue black that I can use for everyday use?

Here's my vote for PR Midnight Blues. I have had no problems with it.

I usually advise our customers to start with a good all-rounder like Waterman (FWIW, Waterman Florida Blue is my reference ink). Not only does it flow well but it is reasonably resistant to feathering meaning you won't embarrass yourself when using less than top-quality paper.

HTH,

Martin

Waterman Blue-Black won't mess with any pen new or vintage. Not waterproof. Sheaffer BB too, tho' it's pretty Blue-Grey.

Noodlers ink are more saturated/darker, but flow well.
I like-
Blue-Black
Navy
Air Corp Blue-Black
These have some waterproof qualities, they will run when wet, but the basic writing stays and is readable.

Also look at Noodlers Legal Lapis. More of a Teal but maybe dark enough for you. This is a permanent type ink.

I've been very happy with Lamy blue-black. Well behaved and decent shading.

Montblanc blue-black has been very satisfactory for me. It's an iron gall ink, nearly waterproof, has good flow, seems pen-friendly, and neither feathers nor bleeds through in my Moleskines or any other of my papers. I use it when I want permanence and durability.

Besides Waterman Blue-Black, I also like Diamine Prussian Blue. A lot of people like Diamine Blue-Black, but I have not had good luck with it.

Bill

I'm hooked on blue-black ink, use it more than any other color, and have several. I like them all. Noodler's Blue-black is a good, basic ink. Their Legal Lapis is lighter but also a big favorite. Diamine Blue-black is in a couple of my pens, every bit the equal of the Noodler's. I have blue-black cartridges from Cross and Sailor for those particular pens. I'm not as crazy about the Cross as I am about the Noodler's or Diamine. The Sailor cartridge is good also.

What pens do you use? I find that the best general performance a pen gives is when you choose the blue-black that is made for the pen originally.

Although the concentration of iron gall is much lower in Montblanc's Blue-Black than in ancient inks not suitable for fountain pens, an ink containing iron gall is never pen-friendly and will need special care if one decides to use it in spite of the damage this ink may do to ones pens.

As some previous posters wrote, Waterman Blue-Black is a very good ink for every day use. This ink is very pen-friendly and by far does not need the high maintenance Montblanc's ink needs.

I agree with the Waterman suggestion as a good place to start (and Florida Blue is also my reference point for inks!).

I like Midnight Blues but it tends to smear when I use it on our office pads which is not helpful. Noodlers blue black is fine as well and a little better on smearing.

My favorite blue black currently is Noodlers Ellis Island blue black - lighter than standard Noodlers BB but still quite dark. Some water resistance, decent drying time and less smearing than midnight blues.

It rather depends on what you mean by "blue-black". If, as so many companies seem to think it means, you have some sort of mid-teal in mind, then sure, Waterman's is fine (or Parker or Yard-o-led, which are much the same). But if you want a colour that looks like it has something to do the interaction of blue and black you should look elsewhere: to Sailor (their Blue and Blue-black are both blue-blacks, the former less black than the latter) and Pelikan, for instance. Blue-blacks that aren't called blue-black include Noodler's Midnight Blue. If you just want a very dark blue, try Private Reserve's DC Electric Blue (a very dark pure blue) or Midnight Blues (dark blue with a hint of green) or Black Magic Blues (dark blue with a hint of purple). If you like the tealishness of Waterman's Blue-Black but think it ought to be a lot darker, try Noodler's Navy. (You may want to add some water to the PR and Nooder's; this has almost no effect on the colour but speeds up drying.)

Simon

As you requested a well-behaved, everyday blue black, I am assuming that the long-lived BB color argument is not an issue?

If that is the case, I find that Waterman BB is excellently behaved. Good flow. Writes well. No feathering, dries quickly. This would be my only ink if it was just more permanent. Like most colors, stands up poorly to water.

Second would be for me Diamine BB which writes extremely well with nice flow. No feathering and dries quickly. I didn't understand what people meant by a lubricating ink until I used this BB.
After a month or so, I've noticed a little bit of nib creep, and a little bit of crusting that was noted by others previously. I think this was because I never submerged the nib. I was just reloading carts. Now that I know about it, I clean the nib off every couple months. No problem.

I don't like Noodlers in the 'well behaved' dept because more prone to nib creep, highly saturated and slow to dry. IMO.

I think crusting is just creep that dries

Waterman Blue-Black or Parker Blue-Black are both great inks for everyday use. (But I would not suggest this inks if you use it for signing important documents)

cheers!

My standard is Noodler's Midnight Blue, but that might just be because it was what I could find when I was buying it. If I were to get a blue-black today, I would order the FPN Starry-Night. In the hand-written reviews I've seen it looks like what I think of as "blue-black."

I love the Blue-Blacks, especially those with more a vintage look- especially in the fading/color changing property as the ink dries. It's one of the best things about a gall ink like Diamine Registrar's Ink IMHO- watching it go from light blue to dark purple to black over 10 seconds.

luckygrandson hooked me up with some Parker Quink Blue-Black Permanent. While it is incredibly washable in reality, not even withstanding a 10 minutes warm water soak test, it's fast become a favorite, especially in my vintage pens. And I'm someone who really dislikes Qunik (pseudo) Black. The flow is great, it does some color changing action, it feels lubricated and smooth on almost a Noodler's level- which is saying a lot for old ink. It's worked like magic in every pen I've tried it.

I've not tried too many, but the closest thing I have to the look and feel of the vintage Quink BB Permanent is Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black. It has a similar look about it, but it is nowhere near as smooth and free flowing as the old Quink. Great in wetter or larger nibbed pens though! Also does a nice color change effect, feels pretty vintage.

Your definition of well-behaved, as well as blue-black, may be different from mine, but I'm also a big fan of Noodler's Lapis Legal, which in a wetter pen is definately a blue-black, though one with a greener tinge. To me, a blue-black should have green-blue or purplish undertones- the blue-blacks, like Noodlers Blue-Black I find to be very pedestrian somehow.

My favorite Blue-Black is the Diamine Registrar's Ink- though it isn't well behaved in any pen I've tried so far. Maybe I need something with a bigger nib- but the stuff is just so incredibly dry. Gorgeous ink, though. Ordering some InkSafe and hopefully it'll jive well enough so that the InkSafe can go back into my Conklin Glider.

Regards,
Aaron

I really like the look of FPN Starry Night, whats your take on that?

Sorry, no experience with Starry Night, but I do own Noodler's Blue-Black, Private Reserve Midnight Blues, and Platinum Blue-Black.

I fail to see how the standard Noodler's BB is a blue-black, it looks like black with a hint of teal. It's still a nice ink though, I like to think of it as a black with an extra zing. It is a semi-bulletproof ink, in that the black component will stay on the paper. In my dry-writing Phileas it is a bit scratchy, but in a wetter writing pen I haven't had any problems.

Private Reserve Midnight Blues is how I would invision a blue-black, blue and black. It looks like it may have a small hint of green when compared with a blue ink. Flow is ok in my experience, what I would expect from a saturated ink.

My newest BB is Platinum Blue-Black. After seeing some scans and reviews, I was hoping that it would be a vibrant blue. Some mentioned that it should be called a blue, not a blue-black. That's not at all what mine looks like, however. It goes down wet looking surprisingly close to Waterman Florida Blue, but then dries to a blue-grey. It looks to be just a bit more blue than the scans of Pelikan Blue-Black. At first I was disappointed, but the color is growing on me. The flow is good, not too heavy, not too light. There was a discussion on the board some time ago arguing whether this ink was iron-gall, and it seems that the consensus was made that it contains a very small amount, enough to make it somewhat water resistant.

My favorite is Private Reserve Black Magic Blue. No problems with any pen I have used it in. /Craig

Have you seen it in person or are you judging it by the early scans posted here? The latter are much bluer than the ink that's in the bottle I bought, which I would describe as a dark grey with a slight blue component. If that's the colour you want, don't hesitate - it performs very well. I prefer Noodler's Midnight Blue, which is very similar but looks somewhat more blue (not to mention the even bluer PR Midnight Blues, Black Magic Blues and Electric Blue - though I suppose someone might complain that these are really just very dark blues and not true blue-blacks; but if a gentle teal can qualify as blue-black, I don't see why these can't...).

Simon

I like Pelikan blue-black.
Stay away from Lamy blue-black.

I avoid both Parker and Waterman BBs because they are both too green!

My BB faves at the moment are

• Pelikan's BB
• Sheaffer's BB
• Herbin's blue nuit

Mike

What does the Herbin's Blue Nuit look like?

Hi Charlie!

My name is N. NN. Size M which is too fine and a B would have been even better for this test...
Click to view attachment
Might sound like a big lie (I guess it's my scanner's fault) but the first two BBs scans here look a bit less green than the real page and the last colour looks a lot more purple than the real thing. The other two are more okay.
Hope that helps. Otherwise just buy a bottle.
Cheers
Mike

Regarding Montblanc Blue-Black...I have read here that only the bottled variety has iron gall. Cartridge doesn't. True?

Anyone who regularly uses Blue-Black inks should Google 'iron gall ink' and maybe look at such sources as 'The ink corrosion website' and go to 'ink corrosion'.

Maybe some BB's don't have the destructive potential of iron gall inks but the BB ink-makers don't seem very keen to clear up the matter one way of the other.

And what is it likely to do to celluloid or acrylics?

Anyway: do you want blue? Or do you want black?
Isn't there something to be said for not letting the oxydisation of the iron and the splitting shellac of the paper make its own decision?

Solitaire

Most blue-black inks these days are NOT iron gall inks. In fact, only a handful of them are iron gall. There are about a thousand threads on FPN on the subject of blue-black ink and why it's called that, and on iron gall inks.

The manufacturers of ink are quite clear about these matters, in my opinion. Modern blue-black inks sold for use in fountain pens are perfectly safe for use in any fountain pen, or at least as safe as any other ink (yes, some of them stain celluloid, but so do other colors of ink). The only one that people get worried about is Diamine's Registrar's Ink, and I am pretty sure Diamine says to flush your pen frequently when using it (I know that Pendemonium's Web site suggests that precaution). Montblanc blue black, which is iron gall-based, is perfectly safe if you follow the manufacturer's instructions and flush the pen periodically (in other words, don't load your pen with the ink and then let it sit in a desk drawer for six months). I've heard that Lamy Blue Black is also iron gall-based, but I've used it in my Safari with no problems (I do flush the pen, and I don't let it sit around loaded but unused). Rohrer & Kilingner Salix and Scabiosa is the other iron-gall based blue-black. All other blue-blacks are not iron gall inks.

What most people are looking for in a blue-black is simply a very dark blue, sometimes with a hint of green, sometimes not. The modern "blue-black" designation is a misnomer -- it does not mean now what it once did.

FPN is a great resource for folks who have more questions than answers about ink. Learn to use the Search feature, and you can gain vast amounts of knowledge. For example, see this thread: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=37172

I'd agree. I've gone through many blue-blacks. Like some here (CharlieB comes to mind) I'm not a fan of the green tinge that characterizes many blue-blacks.

I like Legal Lapis but isn't a blue-black.
I like Noodler's Midnight Blue and Blue-Black, but green tinges.
Waterman Blue-Black is great, but return to the writing and it's teal or turquoise.
PR Midnight Blues is right, but I hate the smeariness.
Lamy/MB blue-black ate one of my Lamy pens (corroded the nib, apparently iron gall?)
Pelikan Blue-Black is okay in the right (wet) nib, but it's a bit chalky and gray for my tastes.

Starry-Night is perfect IMO. Dark dark blue-black. I love the stuff. Not sure if it's a re-labeled version of another Noodler's ink, but it's right-on for me...

Actually, my bottle of Lamy blue-black, which corroded a steel nib into submission, has no mention of its iron gall or corrosive properties. Yet there it is. So I wouldn't say that all manufacturers are clear on the topic, etc., for what it's worth...

Of the five inks shown in Mike's scan, I would go with the Pelikan Blue Black first, and the Sheaffer Blue Black second. I think Sailor Blue Black is similar to the Pelikan Blue Black, only darker.

I really wish that PR's Midnight Blues and Black Magic Blue dried faster than they do, as those are the colors that I like best. I simply can't use them because of the smudging.

In respect of my post.
FPN is such a friendly, helpful site and I have learned a great deal in the short time I have been using it.
And when 'Rufus' sent me a welcome immediately after I joined I was delighted.

So I am truly sorry that I have angered Mr Brandon. I certainly had no intention to upset anyone in my cautions about iron-gall ink and my suggestion about consulting Google.

So I apologise to Mr Brandon for whatever I did to annoy him.

Solitaire.

Solitaire, it looks more like I owe you an apology for causing you unintended concern. I am in no way angry or annoyed with you. My intention was simply to point out what I pointed out -- that other than a handful of blue-black inks, "blue-black" is only a marketing term and has nothing whatever to do with iron-gall inks of the past. At the same time, I was anxious that other new FPNers, who may also be new to fountain pens and inks, would get the impression that ALL blue-black inks are hazardous to pens (which of course is not true).

One of the problems of communicating on a bulletin board like this is that it's easy to get the wrong impression. I guess I should have added a

added: Worth noting, Lamy Blue Black in cartridges is NOT iron gall ink. Lamy Blue Black in bottles IS iron gall ink. Maybe Robert Hughes, who uses the bottled Lamy Blue Black in a Safari pen, will weigh in with his experience.

OK -- that's a new data point for me. At the same time, I'm not sure that I've seen many (any?) other reports on FPN of damage to steel nibs from Lamy blue-black -- although there have been plenty of mentions here of its iron-gall content.

See, for example, this current thread on the same subject: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...lue-Black\

The consensus among those who have used the iron-gall version (see added note below) seems to be that Lamy Blue Black is pretty mild and will cause no harm as long as the ink doesn't sit in the pen for extended periods and the user flushes the pen periodically. That seems pretty sound policy to me. I can't account for what happened to your pen.

added: Worth noting, Lamy Blue Black in cartridges is NOT iron gall ink. Lamy Blue Black in bottles IS iron gall ink. Maybe Robert Hughes, who uses the bottled Lamy Blue Black in a Safari pen, will weigh in with his experience.

-- IMPORTANT ! --

J. D.,

As Charlie just mentioned, I too (honestly) would start off with Pelikan Blue Black first and then with Sheaffer Blue Black.
BUT... don't forget that each ink can run (literally) differently in each pen and you didn't say what pen you're interested in. Frigzample since my Pelikan Souveräns write rather dry and since Pelikan inks themselves are rather dry, I would not use a Pelikan ink in a Pelikan pen. Sounds perverse but try it out yourself. In my M800 or M215, especially Quinks, Watermans or Sheaffers or Herbins (to name only 4) all run much wetter and smoother. And thus have a different colour intensity.

I am I, and your store is your store, and all that jazz... but all 4 of those inks costed me less than 6% of my M800.

'Ave ze nice dayo
Mike

PR Midnight Blues is a wonderful colour but I do not use it either because of it's drying time.

I became a fan of Pelikan BB when I filled it into a Pelikan 400 with a vintage broad nib! This nib gives a real blue black, not anything greyish. Sailor BB is nice, too and it works with not so wet nibs as well. Have not used Sheaffer BB but have a bottle of it to give it a try.

I dislike Waterman and Quink BB because of their strong green tinge. Green is nothing I expect from an ink called blue black. But I have to admit that I use 1:1 Quink BB and blue in my Parker 51s. Unfortunately the green of the Waterman BB is too strong and it still dominates a 1:1 mix blue and BB.

Dear Bill
You are most generous and reassuring.
The FPN is the only indulgence I allow myself in respect of FP and ink and I do get great pleasure from learning so much from the experiences of FP experts, and also the problems of tyros.

I'm sure that as I use the Network more and more I will learn how to contribute a little without treading on any toes.

Meanwhile thank you to the Team - you have created an exemplary world-wide association of friendly and knowing people. And in these difficult days that is something to be proud of

Solitaire