I read mention somewhere that the Tradition series (150/200/250) have less expensive plastic in their barrels than the Souveran line, which has a higher end material? Am I correct or do they use the same material these days?

you are correct.

I'm not sure what sort of plastic is in the 100/200 series but I can say that 400 and up are made of celluloid acetate which is a considered higher quality material than the plastics used in the lower end models. CA is denser, slightly heavier, and of course allows for beautiful colors like Tortoiseshell.

I edited teh "higher Quality" comment because i think that it might be hard to argue that the celluloid in the higher end models is any sturdier than the plastics in the 100/200 models. But it is more costly to manufacturer and has a different feel/appeal to it.

Hi Robert,

As KCat says, the celluloid used in the higher end Souverän series, is very difficult to manufacture. And of every 10 sleeves made, 9 are thrown out, because of QA. This makes it rather expensive, obviously.

OTOH, the black barreled versions are the same price, and I never understood why .

Warm regards, Wim

Hi,

Ok, I will be receiving a Pelikan M300 green-stripe in tomorrow's Fedex delivery. I will also be receiving a shock...

We have 300 sleeves and 270 are thrown out--or 1000 sleeves and 900 are thrown out!
I wonder what they do with the bad sleeves--recycling?

Wow, wim, now, that is some interesting statistics.

Dillon

Do you mean to say that the black barrels are the same material as the lower lines and only the striped celluloid (and other special colered models)? They don't use a black celluloid, just for consistency or materials and workmanship?

Hi Robert, Dillon

AFAIK, the black barrels are made of resin. I am not saying they are the same material as the smaller models. The coloured materials on the M200s are resins as well, but they are softer than the black resin, as far as I can judge. I am not entirely sure, but it certainly feels different.

In a long ago past (for me anyway ), the black material in Pelikans was celluloid as well. Even the caps were made of celluloid in some of the vintage models. Nowadays it is a high grade resin.

Regarding the discarded celluloid sleeves: I don't know what Pelikan does with those, but I don't think they are recycled. The sleeves are custom made for a particular model, and if the stripes don't align perfectly, or the seam is visible, it will not be used.

Warm regards, Wim

I say we find a way to cut down all the waste, via a better manufacturing process or what have you. That way we are not wasteful consumers.

(And if we can get the waste from 90% to say 5% we can have Pelikan lower prices accordingly!!!!!)

From what I can tell, modern Pelikan bindes aren't manufactured from solid rods. Rather, they are rolled into cylinders, resulting in seams on the barrels.

I haven't seen seams on vintage Pelikans before, I'm not sure how those were made. I like the old celluloid more; it's more marbled, while the modern celluloid looks "fuzzy."

Hi Ed,

The old ones were probably made from a solid rod, like Stipula and Bexley still do.

Regarding the seam on a modern Pel: you can actually see it, if you know what you are looking for. Just turn the barrel around, and you are very likely to find a very narrow or irregularly formed stripe. That's where the seam is. And if the line isn't straight, or the lines in general, this is when Pelikan discards it.

Of course, you can't feel the seam, it is finished in a rather perfect way .

Warm regards, Wim

...speaking of "discarded sleeves".

I thought that this photo would be appropriate to the discussion.

Almost reminds me of the pile of spent shot-shells I see at the skeet range.

What! Someone didn't want the light tortoise?

What is the world coming to?

I was thinking the same thing... what a shame !
Also Chris, what size is that bind, and what are you gonna do with it ?

Hey guys, I was thinking the same, too .

Incredible, really.

Hey Chris, maybe you should recycle this, by making multi-colour striated bindes.

A sharp knife, some acetone, a lot of time

Warm regards, Wim

You know what would be nice ? Pelikans with easily swapable binds. I mean really "switching binds for dummys"... a 10 second thing.

It seems that the 400 tortise and white combo has not been a popular color. Fountain Pen Hospital and others are giving a heck of a price discount on that version.

That light tortoise binde is from a Pelikan Honey. I only wish that I didn't have to cut these things to get them off. if you look closely at some of the bindes in the photo, you can see some of the cuts (they're all on the underside in the pic).

And yes, I have been wondering if there is anything that I could do with these things. At some point I do intend to sit down with a sharp knife and some acetone and see what I can come up with.

Chris,

here is a challenge for your technical-craft-pelikan-manship :

Making an over bind, that can be slipped on. It would be shorter than the full bind, and have the same outer diameter than the cap trim. I'm thinking that spraying the inner surface with Teflon spray might make the thing doable. If this is too thin, the over-bind could have a slight curve to give a subtle cigar shape.

I can see a white honey with a faux ivory over-bind...

Do-able ?

Hi Denis,

Yup, very do-able. Some of the very first bindes that I made for modern Pelikans were slip-fit, partial-length bindes. They cover the portion of the barrel from where the cap lip is when the cap is screwed on, to where the cap lip is when the cap is posted on the end of the barrel.
If you take a look here:

Andy's post with partial-length binde on a Pelikan 400

you can see one of these. Andy Abbott got the first one that I did and he has a photo of it in the above post. The pen itself has not been modified in any way and can be returned to its original condition simply by sliding the binde off of the barrel.

so I'd guessed. And you can tell by my avatar that I consider that one of the most beautiful modern Pels in the 400 series. Shame it's not caught on - though I'm sure that Pelikan didn't help the situation with the white plastic problems.

still, i'd never change out the binde on that pen - shoot - I wouldn't do that on any of the striped Pels. Now the black barrel...zzzzzzzzzzzz.

now...if you can take my D250 in dark green and turn it into a tortoise pencil using that binde. Though I think Denis already has designs on that one.

Are you refering to my White Honey pencil ?

Ooooo And for those of us that do not post, I suppose there is no problem making it go up to the piston nob.

Let's spice it up : I see that the Ivory MontBlanc you posted has ridges. What kind of patterns can you make/etch on such an over-sleeve ?

Denis.

Actually, I couldn't make it go the entire length of the barrel. the barrel of the Pelikan has a slight taper to it at both ends. If I made a full-length slip-fit binde, there would be gaps between it and the underlying barrel at both ends.
In order to make a full-length slip-fit binde, I'd need to turn the barrel down so that it was a perfect cylinder. Then I could slide a binde on and off. The outer binde could have a taper to it.

And the ivory only looks like it has ridges. They are only striations in the material. I'll need to get a milling machine before I am able to machine ridges in anything, but it's on my list.
The only thing that I've done so far as carving or etching goes has been to make a binde with circumfrential grooves, sort of like some of the pens that Sailor makes.
The middle pen in this pic:



is one of two pens that I've done like this. This particular pen has a partial-length slip-fit binde.

One carving/etching thing that is on my short list of things to do is to make a binde with a bori type finish. I really like the Japanese pens that are done in this finish, but they're hard to find.

Hi,

Curious...I like the tortoise, but I want it in the M300 size. Well, I might also like the M400 size, but...


Dillon

Fantastic bindes Chris!

I can't imagine what's being developed at your "skunk works" right now; do you have anything special on the drawing board?

I have an M800 with an imperfect binde; the striation is all slightly slanted, and the seam is very discernable. Would Chartpack replace the barrel? If it isn't fixable, than "Burtonizing" it would be an option.

Edward T.

Hi Ed,

Chartpak has a great reputation for fixing/replacing broken Pelikans, but I don't know if they'll swap one just because the striations aren't straight. Try contacting them and see what they say.

And the skunkwerks isn't as exciting as you might imagine, but I'm currently dreaming of sterling silver...