One of my students has handwriting which is very difficult to read. Here's a sample:

Click to view attachment

What advice would you give him to improve?

He seems to follow two principles:
- Never write on the line.
- Better make one stroke too little than one too much.

That's not a good way to produce a readable handwriting, in my opinion.
I have no experience as a writing teacher, but my first advice would be to slow down and to try to stay on the line.

Best regards
Hans-Peter

an increase in the size of their charecters would be a start, then after that they could concentrate on form, and then writing on the line.

Just a thought, do you know if there is any medical reason for your students handwriting?

I have dyspraxia which affects my motor skills and causes me to have poor handwriting, including difficulty with regular letter formation and writing on a line. It is helped by using fountain pens (much easier on the fingers) and writing slowly (no good taking notes or in exams).

I thought I would mention this as a lot of people tend to think of non physically obvious medical problems causing handwriting.

All the best with helping your student!

Make him write with a marker. The tiny counters will most likely disappear and the other forms reduced to blobs.
This makes the illegibility more obvious to him. Keep practicing with a marker till all the counters are visible. A more relaxed grip will also open up the letters.

Yes, I think he should, perhaps, be medically assessed...my youngest daughter has very 'loose' hand joints which make handwriting difficult......she was assessed and allowed extra time for exams, and given a laptop for 'written assignments'.

agreed.
special provisions are the greatest things on the planet.
you can get them for ANYTHING!
like extra time for the hearing impaired... not sure why, but take what you can get
oh... and they help

Okay first, is he ambidextrous (or however you spell it?) I had a friend in school who was, and his handwriting was atrocious.

Barring that, tell him to slow down, relax, use a fountain pen and NOT RUSH. I've seen people who's writing is like that, and I have seen how they write. It's always fast, jerky and with next to no thought about what it looks like. They also seem to have death-grips on their pens. He needs to relax and slow down. A LOT. I can't even read a single letter of that.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are more ligible than that! I feel for you in having to try and grade that.

Could the student be writing illegibly because he/she is not very confident about what he/she is saying?

I don't think he's got any special conditions -- have met his parents and they didn't mention it.

Another of his teachers has spoken to him about trying to change his handwriting, but what I hear is that he responded "but it's my handwriting". From what she tells me he seems to actually be proud of it as a marker of individuality...

I'd like to make a list of actual, concrete steps he can take, then hopefully convince him to take them

I'm no expert, but it looks like a very, very light touch with a ballpoint to me. This kind of touch is not really conducive to writing with a ballpoint, as more pressure is required to write. A FP (or even RB) may improve the students handwriting significantly.

If he is unwilling to change the handwriting may I suggest Medical School. He already has the handwriting.
IMO it is not that difficult to read, but I can decipher just about anyone's scratch.

I'm afraid that any student who said "Well it's MY writing!" ....or words to that effect...would get a very short answer from me, if I were being required to read and mark it

My 'advice' would be "If you wish it to be read and assessed, you need to write it so that I can read it!"....there is a reasonable consensus here, I think, that this is unacceptably illegible.

Unless you have some responsibility for teaching handwriting it is up to him to get up to an acceptable standard.

Ask him to read it out loud to you - I bet he has problems reading it himself!

I agree with the FP thing and the marker idea was also good in terms of ensuring every movement marks the paper.... another suggestion would be to change his grip..... hold the pen between two fingers.... this gives more consistency to the movement and stability of the pen. he would keep his individual style add a bit by holding his pen differently and actually be able to produce writing that everyone can read easily.oh - one more thing - how old is he?

Yeah...or just get him to dictate and you could write it out for him

Like I said before... Doctor.

Oh, it's HIS handwriting. Sounds like he isn't willing to take advice. I think that if you can't read it, you can't mark it. It should be his F grade. That ought to get the point across.

Yeouch!! Painful, Mac, very painful. But, I think it makes a good point. If the boy asks why his assignment is marked as it is, just tell him what Professor Farnsworth once said in an episode of "Futurama" - "I'm sorry, but penmanship counts."

If you can't read it, don't mark it. In fact I've been told several times by teachers (not to me specifically, but generally) that when we write our exams or assignments, if our handwriting wasn't legible, we wouldn't pass. OR, we could type it up. I'm not a teacher, but I know that teachers do teach more than one class and that they cannot spend half an hour, an hour, two hours, reading, deciphering and decoding every single stroke of that kid's handwriting. Mark it as an F (or whatever the lowest grade is. In Australia, it's an E) and move on.

If it's true that his handwriting is like it is due to ballpoint pens, then seriously suggest to him that he buys a fountain pen. And perhaps you should speak to his parents about it. A line in the direction of: "Oh it doesn't matter" is rubbish. A good hand is essential, no matter what other gizmoes there are in the world. Ballpoint pens only work if you jam them into the paper - which is exactly why I hate them - If he's holding it so lightly that the ball won't roll, then it sounds like he would seriously benefit from using a fountain pen instead.

Perhaps you might want to take the student aside during a lunchtime or whatever, and ask him to write a few lines (quotes from literature, songs, whatever) and just watch how he holds the pen and how he writes and talk to him about it and make suggestions based on that.

How old is this student? If he's "too old" to be taught to write legibly, I'd say he's old enough to be required to type his work. HIS handwriting can be reserved for HIS signature.

Good luck,

Breck

IAWTC.

If the teacher can't read it the teacher can't grade it. A couple Fs should get the kid to start thinking seriously about his writing.

IKISFSBFTLOMICFIO.

Acronyms are on the what now?

This could be a golden opportunity to convert another to the wonderful world of fountain pens!

Yes, that was the point I was, rather sarcastically, trying to make.

i wouldn't worry about it.

who writes anymore?

Doesn't the SAT Test (for college) have a writing (essay) section these days? I'm not sure how they'd grade an essay if they couldn't read the handwriting at all.

Not only that, I've seen many companies where people leave handwritten notes for others, requesting info., a signature, follow-up work, etc. I'd like to see how anyone would deal with handwriting like this.

I'm pretty sure that A.) obmike was being sarcastic and B.) standardized tests requiring essays are moving swiftly towards being computer-based.

edited to change to B.)

I cannot speak for the SAT, but the GRE is now entirely computer-based.

most of my friends in med school have good writing.
it must change during internship, or all those years of being a disgruntled gp

At this point, GIVE the student a Safari FINE point pen. Also give him a small journal. Tell him to write his thoughts on a daily basis. About 10 minutes or so.

Tell him the ink dries a bit slow, so SLOW down

On a once a week basis, make an appointment with him and let him read a couple of entries to you. Be interested.

Show him a couple of entries from YOUR JOURNAL....you DO keep one don't you?

Let him try different color inks.....tell him he or the pen might like one better.

Have him develop a SIGNATURE.....perhaps first trying to match his dad's....then work on his own. It must be legible and distinctive. Comment on his efforts.

This method WILL work.....but it also takes EFFORT on YOUR part. Are you willing to do that?

I like the "F" idea. It sure cured a guy in my class!

I don't think the teacher has to fail the student for the course, but if there are regular written assignments the a zero on one that's worth two or five per cent of the course mark ought to do it. Even near the end of the semester, having to repeat one course is better than not getting hired for a challenging and rewarding job later on.

Mac

You're teaching a language. Writing is part of a language. You should go ahead and pull the F-threat on him.

I think you teach him to write in Italic Cursive, I wonder too if that this student had ever had a broken hand or wrist.
Is he a left handed or a right handed person? According to the case, may I suggest to teach him how to hold a pen correctly and write slowly first on the line and then faster with Italic Cursive characters. If a nib adjustment has to be made, then Richard Binder is the man I would suggest.

I'm amazed every day at how much the world has changed. If I had ever turned in anything like this to a teacher, I doubt that there would have been much discussion about it. I would have gotten a failing grade and that would have been the end of it. Thereafter my choices would have been:

1. Continue to turn in papers that look like this and continue to fail - no matter how brilliant the content might be (if it could be read)
2. Improve my handwriting so that it can be read and be graded on the content

Today when a student turns in something like this, there is endless discussion about it - Does he have a medical problem? Does he have a psychological problem? Does he lack confidence? Is his family dysfunctional?

Perhaps the world I grew up in - more than a half century ago - was too heartless. But we have clearly gone to the other extreme. Today students don't even have to make excuses for themselves. There is always a cadre of adults to make excuses for them. I feel sorry for these students. I'm convinced that I have overcome many shortcomings in my life simply because there was very little sympathy for these shortcomings. And if I descended into self-pity, there was always an adult at hand to say, "Buck up!"

I also feel sorry for teachers and parents. It's difficult to be benevolently stern when you live in a mollycoddling culture. I'm not even suggesting that the "Buck up!" method will work with today's teenagers. I suspect that many of them have been irretrievably mollycoddled.
(End of rant. Sorry. )

Judybug

The educational system was much more stringent and much more demanding in the past than it is now. I too despite born in the late 70's had known strong law abidance and heartlessness during my scholarship. Most of my teachers were former military people with zero tolerance for anything that was not respecting the norm. I guess older teachers were better because they wanted people to have an adequate penmanship, law abidance and will to succeed, something that is no more existing today. Teachers of today are far to be that great, they have very rarely a strong strength of conviction and character. Today parents are often lead by their own kids, I have seen parents being insulted by their own children, unbelievable? Yes, unbelievable but as I have seen it written somewhere "Any fool with a d*ck can make a baby, only a real and grown up man can raise his children" remains true.
It is not without sadness and anger as well that I consider the post 1986 born people as a lost generation, a big majority of them are lacking culture, lacking respect towards their elder peers and lacking the willingness to bust their ass off in order to get something because they think everything is due to them. I prefer parents who have the strong disciplinarian side with their children and who teach them respect of the authority than parents allowing their children to walk on their heads and insulting them.
Just describing and depicting the sad reality. I am sorry but I had to express my honest feelings.

just my very moderate and honest thoughts

best regards

georges

I like this idea, and think it has a lot of credence in this situation. Regardless of coddling, unconditional acceptance (or perennial "blame it on something else" syndrome), if you make it harder for him to overlook the fact that his writing is chicken-scratch, he'll improve.

Do you have enough paper in your classroom to make him write his work with a fat, chisel-tipped (I supposed bullet-tipped would work too) Sharpie?

Judybug, I didn't mean to sound "soft" by suggesting a medial reason for the students option nor did I mean it as an excuse. Based on my own experience I have had work unfairly treated by teachers who found my writing difficult to read. Rather than attempting to find out the cause of my difficulties they would simply tell me to try harder which for me simply has no effect as it is a physical problem and not due to any lack of trying on my part.
I simply think we should be trying to look for a cause to this students writing so we may best be able to help the student develop a more legible writing style.
I do agree that it some areas we have gone to the other extreme and seem to have a lot of young people without a sense of accountability to themselves or others.



Phew! I just made the cut of date! Dec 23rd 1986.

Ahem...As a student *with* a disability, I'm well aware of the 'special consideration' stuff that goes on in the academic world. So here's my two cents...

Education has changed a lot since the time of my parents, grandparents, and since the time that several people on this forum were children. In the old days, it was handwritten, dip-pens, chalk, canes and standing corners. One of my teachers told me that if I had lived fifty years ago, I would have been taught braille, because nobody back then would be assed in helping me with my disability.


These days things are different. To quote a line from some American radio show, - "we live in a much more litigious society today". In a nutshell, people will sue anyone, for anything, for any reason. Because of this, schools have had to change how they teach, first to cover their asses from the assault of parents, and secondly, to help students get the best education they can. And this means altering stuff and, dare I say it, taking shortcuts.

These days, more things are done on computer than actually written on paper by pen and hand. I do all my exams on computer. I have done since I was in year 7. Despite that, I still do a lot of handwriting and I always try to maintain at least a legible, if not beautiful, hand.

On the level of "making excuses" and "endless questions", I think that comes about due to changing attitudes. As I've been told, and as Judybug has mentioned, in years gone by, if your work was rubbish for whatever reason, it was junk and junk alone and that's it, case-closed, end of discussion.

If you did that today, there would a hell of a ruckus about it because of claims of 'discrimination' and 'prejudice' and whatever other doohicky that people dream up. So these days, things are more stretched out, to try and avoid this. Here is some food for thought:

My current exam conditions are as follows:

1). Total 15 minutes extra for rest-breaks.
2). 30 minutes extra time for each 60 minutes of writing-time.
3). Use of a computer instead of having to write something out by hand.
4). The presence of a scribe to write stuff down.

Now I only make use of the first three of those conditions. Having someone else to write stuff down for me I take as something of an insult, as if to say I can't write it down myself, something which I'm perfectly capable of doing. But schools and universities provide these things because they feel they need to. Such conditions as those I've listed above are called 'special considerations' (that's the official name for them) and I've had them for as long as I can remember. There are others, of course, but I won't list them here.

These days there's a greater understanding of disablities and whatnot, which I think causes some teachers to be sympathetic and this causes the whole "making excuses" thing. "Oh he's *X* because of *Y* or whatever. Awwww!!"

I don't hate my disablity. What I hated was all the special attention I got. It was unnerving and it made me very uncomfortable. I'm more comfortable with it now, but when it started I was very...uneasy with it.

Whether all this has a negative affect on a student's ability to learn effectively, or not, I don't know, but with all this stuff aside, I think education as a whole needs to go back to basics.

And I agree that if a real medical problem is suspected, it should be investigated quickly and - if not ruled out - be treated appropriately. As a child, I was very near-sighted for several months before anyone suspected it. Apparently the deterioration in vision came on so gradually that I didn't even realize that I wasn't seeing normally. When I finally got glasses in the fourth grade, I was amazed at what I could see!

I wonder if the student whose handwriting is the subject of this topic could have vision problems? At any rate, I didn't mean to sound heartless. I just meant that I'm afraid some young people hear potential medical/psychological problems discussed as an explanation for their laziness, and they adopt these sometimes invalid explanations as marvelous excuses for poor work.

Judybug

Judybug, if his writing is that bad due to a vision-impairment, he wouldn't be writing to begin with.

Thanks for all the responses, folks. The boy is fifteen and very bright for his age. Unfortunately he is also rather lacking in social skills, whether with his peers or anyone else. He isn't really rude or anything; he's just a bit odd.

I personally wonder if he might be leaning towards mild autism, but if it hasn't been diagnosed by this point in time I don't think he needs to be saddled with the inevitable stigma that comes with it. I'm going to hope that it's just a phase he's going through and deal with the things I can deal with, one of which is handwriting.

I like the marker idea -- might use it, along with practical advice on slant and letterforms and writing on the line. Am chary about passing him an FP though -- he doesn't really take good care of his belongings.

I have to return papers next week. I'll talk to him then.

When I was in the 6th grade we had a student like this (although he was not 15). He was truly brilliant, but seriously lacking in any social skills. He referred to himself in the third person, although this can sometimes be fun... just not all the time. He was an excellent student, but definitely and "odd" loner. He went through high school with me and I would interact with him some, but he was definitely "in a different plane" of our universe.

For the 6th grade Science Fair he designed and constructed (without outside help) a robot that would recognize certain wavelengths of light and travel in that direction. He really made everyone else feel a little inferior.

As to autism... perhaps it should be looked into, but usually there are more obvious signs. Maybe Asperger's Syndrome, bet then again there are also other signs here as well. Stereotyped and repetitive motor behaviors are a core part of the diagnosis of Asperger's. Other signs include clumsiness and an intense focus on a limited number of activities. But... I am not a doctor thus I am not qualified to make any medical recommendations.

Although legibility is a requirement, I personally feel educators (and parents) are often too quick to search for a medical explanation when a child behaves outside what is considered normal. Some people are just different. I'll admit to being a strange child... heck I'm still a pretty strange adult.

How about a less-expensive FP like a Pilot Varsity or Platinum Preppy?

Asperger syndrome. Asperger syndrome, all the way. It's a mild form of autism, and generally results most noticeably in deficient social skills and general eccentricity. "Aspies" (those with Asperger syndrome) are also frequently very intelligent.

By the way, I've got Asperger's too, and I actually don't mind it at all, though it's a milder case for me. I happen to have very neat and legible handwriting, though my cursive is atrocious (then again, I'm out of practice.)

Hmm. How to fix his handwriting? I remember (dimly) that I had handwriting issues way back when in Kindergarten and first grade When I had to move my hand in the middle of a word, it would inevitably result in a large space-sized gap in the middle of the word. That, as I recall, was fixed by good old-fashioned writing therapy, but I don't remember it all that well.

I'd guess that such therapy (practice, etc) could help. Then again those with Asperger syndrome generally have motor skill 'issues' so it's entirely possible that that's about the best he can do.

Edit: Whoops, broke a tag. It's fixed now.

I was thinking on a Rotring Core. If he can break that, well......