Hello All,

I was told about this site by a member of the Corvette Forum.

My Late Dad was an avid collector of Fountain pens.

I finally decided to organize them and put them up for sale. They have sat in boxes in a closet for the last 20 yrs.

My dad bought most in the 1940s-50s. Much of it is NOS. However, he also picked up a bunch at flea markets and antique shows too.

I counted about 150 in all.

100 Parker 51s:
-3 NOS in brass case; 14K GF
-Blue Diamond: 5, 14k GF Gold; 5, Silver cap
-Celluloid; (including Burgandy)
-Aeromatic: 50; all colors/alloy cap

-Vacumatic: 10
-Dufold: 5
-Misc

Sheaffer

-25 Snorkel: 3 NOS in Cse
-35 White Dot Valiant
-5 Art Deco style
-Stelring Silver Imperials
-Targa
-Gold Bark
-Misc

Assorted:

Eversharp
Waterman
Pelikan
Cross S.Silver and solid 14K
25 14K Sheaffer Desk Pen Quills

I am listing these on ebay; and will post some photos to help get them identified

Would be nice if you let us (FPN user) a chance to buy insteads. Do give me a Pm if you have No objection to my suggestion. Cos i would like to be first. Tks for your consideration.

Generally speaking, you will get a much fairer price on these boards than if you were to sell them on eBay.

That said, I'm very interested in seeing which Waterman pens you have (so as to buy them), and also Snorkels and Duofolds.

Keep us updated. Post your eBay user ID, too, if you don't mind.

Suspect i don't agree with that remark.

Of course, i guess depends on what "fairer" means

-
david

if david has not already offered to buy it, let me know your price on the red veined Sheaffer on the right of the second photograph.

Cheers,
Sean

The ebay id is: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZclassic_chronograph

About 12 are up with very basic pics; I wanted to test the market, as listing costs 50 cents

I did a quick search of ebay and it seemed these 14K GF pens were going for $25-100.

I do have 3 PLUM colors; which i understand are holy grails. Also, a Burgandy Pearl Celluloid

-1 NOS Pen/Pencil set
-1 NOS Pen

I am a collector of Vintage Chronographs and believe Ebay is still the best place to get the highest price for those.
There are many watch boards, and their sales boards force you to pick a price and you get stuck with that price or no-offense (as anyone who has sold on collectible forums knows) low-ballers or nit pickers (which I may be to if i was bidding too!).

Having said that, I am happy to close the ebay auctions if folks think I am off-base and I will get 25-33%+ more here or on other Auction Pensites like Penbid.

I will try and post a more organized array of pics so we can have a full look later.

ps, All thses watches are original/unrestored. What is the consensus on cleaning the 14k caps/nibs. SOme are blemished from age and would clean up I am sure with polish or jewllers cloth (which type? Simichrome?). Will that destroy value/patina or rub-off gold plate?

Thanks for all the PMs and encouragement.

I believe Forums are a great resource to the collector and I have made many friends on the vintage dive/chronograph watch, vintage cars/exotics (my true passion) forums

As a side note, I am selling 15 Lemania & Valjoux Chronographs & Dive watches from the 1960s-70s [Heuer Autavia GMT, Certina ph1000m, Wittnauer GMT, Bucherer, Roamer, Aquastar 500, etc) if you folks collect watches too!

I am sure my Late dad would have been a member of your Forum; some of you older dealers might have met him in the NYC antique shows of the 80s.



Thanks

I just looked over your auction....
Most of your prices are in line for a decent starting price...
BUT, IMO I believe you are way overboard on the pricing of the Plum pens even if they are stickered....
Also there is no such thing as a Jumbo Parker 51...
The Parker 51 only came in two sizes... the Demi and the Standard.... I would suggest you read Richard Binder's Profile of the Parker 51 and Ernesto Soler's Versions of the Parker 51

You also claim that you do not accept PayPal, but have a paypal payment button at the bottom of your auction

Thanks[/quote]

I just looked over your auction....
Most of your prices are in line for a decent starting price...
BUT, IMO I believe you are way overboard on the pricing of the Plum pens even if they are stickered....
Also there is no such thing as a Jumbo Parker 51...
The Parker 51 only came in two sizes... the Demi and the Standard.... I would suggest you read Richard Binder's Profile of the Parker 51 and Ernesto Soler's Versions of the Parker 51

You also claim that you do not accept PayPal, but have a paypal payment button at the bottom of your auction
[/quote]

Thanks for tips. I will re-read; Learning all this in one weekend is rough!

Re: Paypal. Ebay FORCES you to use it. You cant even do a listing w.out it. I have sold north of $50K of watches on ebay, and if I told you the horror stories of frozen funds, retracted wires, outright fraud -- the NY Attorney General fined them millions for this. I have another ID with 100+ feedback for Watches, which I would prefer not to use.

Re: Jumbo thanks; must have been a Mont Blanc moment

Re: PLUM the market will speak. I have posted rare items and Japanese or Italian collectors swoop in and hit it and for the next year everyone talks about it. The price leaders happen at some point. NOS sometimes never EVER comes again, even if you wait five years. $250 seems to be market for avg. PLUMs, so I am using the NOS rule of thumb for watches!

No they do not....
Here is a link to an auction I recently won that does not have the PayPal link in it...

I have sold more than my share on eBay over the years and have never had a problem with PayPal.... In fact they were more than helpful recently when a buyer tried to defraud me by claiming he did not receive an pen I sold and refused to give them the information they asked for as proof...

I believe an open bid forum like eBay will get you the best price.

1) The people on this forum who are interested know that these pens are listed there and what they are worth to them and will bid accordingly. So you will get no less on eBay than you will here.

2) Believe it or not, there are eBay bidders who are not part of the FPN who will also bid on your pens if listed correctly. They may be willing to pay more than the FPNers will.

Someone telling you not to list or auction or asking you to "sell-it-now" is just trying to preclude competition.

If you are a new seller (ie, zero feedback it is required), try registering a new name to see for yourself.

$500 and $750 starting bids on the plums?

wow.....

best of luck on your pen sales.

*edit*

in the series of new pictures there, you have a few high end 51's there. At least you did good in testing the waters on eBay, with the ones you put up there. I would do some more research on the that third group, before you put them on the bay. specifically, that pale green one, the yellow/orange one, and the burgundy one that has the end jewel, just for starters.....

Thanks for tip.

no I understand, sorry for the comment, I edited it, after thinking about it.

It is hard to tell from the color of your third photograph but:
a - if the third from the left is a Green Vacumatic Parker "51" it is rarer than hens teeth and should bring over $1000? $2,000? at auction. A DJ Nassau Green went for $2300 last week and the DJ is more common that the Single Jewel Nassau Green
b - the fifth is a Double Jewel Burgundy "51" and will go for $250+
c - the sixth is a Double Jewel Mustard "51" and will go for $400+
d - the seventh pen is "51" with a Sterling Silver cap and will go for $100
e - the eleventh and fourteenth are "51"s with Silver with Blue Diamond Clips and stacked Coin cap and will go for $100 each.

and then you have the Plum pens....

Don't let anyone talk you into selling outright.

I'd be interested to know which green DJ 51 pulled >$2300 and if it was valued because it was green or independent of its greenness (say, with a rare cap worth $2k independent of color). If regular cap green's are $2000+, guess i'm going to have to triple the price of the bunch in my retail sales pipeline Always willing to learn new details that lead to higher retail prices, though.

Whilst i've enjoyed the backchannel chat (not initiated by me, i might add, as I was asked for some appraisal info), I note that as the involved seller has had access to my website (especially the sold pens archive) means he likely has some sense of what these can pull retail. There is, after all, no where else online with so many sold retail 51's prices available for the casual peruser.

QUOTE

the eleventh and fourteenth are "51"s with Silver with Blue Diamond Clips and stacked Coin cap and will go for $100 each.

I've never seen a silver 51 cap with stacked coin band, but would love to see my first.

-d

Keep the tips coming.

>I appreciate all information.

The stacked coin caps you show are not silver... they are lusterloy.... Parker did not make a silver stacked coin cap....
As for the Sterling Silver cap they are extremely nice and can be uncommon in very good condition, but I would not call them rare....
Both do bring a premium to the price of the pen... the sterling more than the stacked coin.

Darn. I was hoping to see my first Silver cap with stacked coin band. Guess not.

-d

Why do you believe the Sterling Silver with decorated band is one of a kind? Is there something about this one that sets it apart from all (or any) of the other Sterling Silver pens with decorated band and "brushed pin stripe finish"?

regards

david

Someone must have mis-quoted what I typed, I said:
"e - the eleventh and fourteenth are "51"s with Silver with Blue Diamond Clips and stacked Coin cap and will go for $100 each. "
that is "Silver with Blue Diamond clip" - OK? The Clip is Silver (chromed actually) with a Blue Diamond on it. And the pen cap is a "stacked coin cap".

Sounds like someone typed in error only to be quoted correctly, though the subsequent clarification is somewhat helpful. Indeed, and as an aside, i have clips of this sort that show brass, not white metal, where the white outer layer has been worn away.

regards

david

In reply to all the helpful insights, tips, appraisals.

This Forum has provided a wealth of information and saved me some costly mistakes.

-For example, the Plums (5) had Buy It Now of $25 for about 1 hour on Sunday night.
-The Duofolds were about to be listed as a lot for $50
-The Nassau Green was lost in a myriad of of other colors.

In full disclosure, I knew coming to this Forum would provide the insight, and spark spirited debate amongst collectors and dealers who compete for the rarest models.

In my mind, its the passion of collectors and the ability of dealers to make a nice margin that keeps any market efficient and viable.
If it is a one sided market, it will in time become thin and keep values lower, and margins thinner as collectors get discouraged or dismayed at the lack of availbility, and dealers experience less demand..


I would encourage all to provide your insights, and I will make sure to incorporate all advice as best as I can to ensure a level playing field.

Look, i'm probably not in market for these at this point, but i offer- only in opinion- that if you plan to play here to tap the knowledge and insights of folks who are generous and willing to share, that perhaps it would be... courteous... to offer a few pens on the FPN board vs simply taking and taking in order to maximize your personal profits on another site. It is easy to take. It is tougher to give. It does seem pretty easy to ask to have those insights keep on comin', whilst placing hyperbolic ebay ads but offering... nothing... in the milieu from which you gain all your knowledge.

I do need to review the pics, too, but at least on my monitor's color space, nothing appears to be Nassau.

regards
david

Amen.

Thank you David.


John

poetic....

Could not have said it better myself....
One of the reasons I always start my sales on FPN first is to give back to the community....

just my two cents worth - actually after all the experts here have already piped in my 2 cents are probably not even worth that - but here goes. I would never buy on ebay - especially not a vintage pen. I would though (and have) bought them here as I trust the members of the site, I know that others will pick up on duds and help me if I need it and I am therefore willing to pay a premium for that.

So given all the help being offered here, a pen sold here (maybe at a bit of a premium with a built in donation to the site) may get you a very satisfying sale!

(May I suggest you post one the P51s I am interested in!?) :-)

With all due respect, its been less than 36 hours since I posted the original forum post/ebay ads.

I have 12 ebay listings up, actual not hyperbolic and quite reasonable, and will post more as I have time.
I stated clearly any ebay listing is open to bids or a deal offline to any FPN member.

I have responded to 9 PMs, and will take into account interest.

I will share listings on FPN classifieds, and if in line with market, will trade.

Its Nassau, an expert in NYC has confirmed this morning in person, and made an offer as well.

I plan on taking better photographs, to document features & flaws, and provide accurate descriptions and organize an efficient sale.
This takes more than 36 hours for 100 pens.

I would argue I have shared as well, photos, commentary, history, and some rareities as well as being courteous. Forums need content to stay relevant. So not empty handed here.

Re: Maximizing profits; zero (0) is the current profit aftter 36 hours.

Dictating, pressure, & heavy handedness on protocal/ettiquette are misdirected here.

I have a collection, want to share, will sell to those who appreciate the pen and my relationship.

Enjoy

It would be a very nice sign of appreciation to offer a complimentary pen to all those who have given you tips. They share they wealth of knowledge, you share your wealth of pens. Sounds like a nice deal to me.
(I claim dibs on the Mustard DJ)

Interesting! So now that you know that ClassicChronograph is both a eBay Seller and a Member of FPN will you bid on the auctions?

The key ideas being discussed here are "help being offered" I guess.
Do members have to "pay" in some way for information here?
If members WITH information feel that they should get paid for information then they should hold on to it and not give it away for free.

I'd say that most of the information I gave was obtainable either at on-line information sources, in books, or from observing sales and auctions. Some of my information came from my time spent collecting and reading, but only a part.

When I give help I don't expect compensation.

Things hotting up .................sounds more like chatter now.......!

I don't see anyone saying that the OP had to pay for the information he was given....
The remark made was that it would have been courteous for him to have offered the pens here first instead of jumping them on eBay....
I have yet to see any member of FPN ask for compensation for information....

I think you will agree that many of the members here will post a pen for sale in the Market Place before putting it on eBay....

Interesting. I have already pm'd asking you for a price on a specific pen and recieved no response. I have not seen it up on the ebay auction, so one would opine that it could be available without upsetting the ebay applecart. This may have changed though, as I have not checked your ebay auctions today and do not plan to.

Should you only wish to sell on ebay, great, that is your choice. I do think though that David's point is will made and I agree with him wholeheartedly on this one. If you ask us here on FPN for advice re price and identification to ascertain price it would be only polite to offer a few of the pens on this board as a sort of thank you. Listed at fair market value the pens will sell near immediately here, and with no fees whatsoever for listing. This would actually increase your net, but you seem uninterested in dealing with those who have helped you. It is not an expectation, but would be a pleasant niceity to see some pens be made available to those who helped you ascertain a fair asking price.

I personally do offer up pens here and pentrace, never on ebay anymore. Could I sell some of my pens on ebay, certainly. But, over the last 4 years this forum has helped me immensely gather information on pen values and other odds and ends, so I feel a sense of duty to do what I can to pay back my friends here.

Yes your pens will likely sell on ebay, and possibly to FPN members. Will I bid on them, not likely. I do not see any heavy handedness here, only those interested in the longevity of this board looking out for it.

You state that you would but have ignored a request for your price on a specific pen. It would seem that you are now putting stipulations on the sale, we must now prove our worth and generate a relationship before we are deemed acceptable to even consider selling to. Turnabout is fair play, if you wish to garner information on your rare and valuable pens, throw a couple up here and see how fast they sell (fee free I might add again).

Sean

anymore, I find it a lot nicer to deal with selling here, rather than selling on eBay. Paypal is not the problem of eBay, eBay in itself is.

I don't think it is a matter of compensation, or much else. It seems to me that someone mined the site for information, is going to make financial gain on the information gathered from the host of experts here, and the experts, can't even seem to get sorta a "thank you" in return for their contribution. What I am talking about is this guy had BIN on a few plums of what, $25? wonder how he figured out they were worth a lot more? seems that maybe FPN was of help in the matter? Maybe, just maybe a donation to FPN would be appreciated, to help ease the server situation.

Personally, I don't care, they're not chiltons, so they're just pens to me. His dad had nice taste, I hope my kids approach selling my stuff a little differently, or even keep my collection that I put so much time and love into.

Oh well. At least a few rare and HTF pens will be put in the hands of some collectors that will appreciate them. in the end, that's what it is really about.

Since we've been requested to keep those ol' insights comin', i guess... i will...



Yes, let us consider collector insights into lack of hyperbole and presence of reasonableness. Perusing those ads i see...




Teal is common



Plum is desirable, but is not rare, recognizing the subjectivity of said claims. Still you invited our insights. At least 15 plum 51's have been offered during the last 7 months or so, just via FPN. Serious collectors rarely consider 'rare' those items for which more than a dozen appear in half a year. Of course, this is just one fellow's opinion and... insight.



Guess that rules out the dishwasher, doctor, or other folks who don't imagine themselves high falutin'. At least Ernesto still qualifies, iirc.

QUOTE

Jumbo Large Size

As opposed to normal larger size?

QUOTE

... and the Sterling Silver with decorated band is unique as well with a brushed pin stripe finish

The Sterling lined cap with decorated band is neither Unique nor uncommon. Indeed, it is the most common pattern seen in sterling caps.

Anyhoo...



"Sharing" of course is a subjective concept. Dropping teasers about sales in the non-sales section of a website, under the mien (or perhaps guise) of "sharing" is of variable value to different individuals no doubt. Whilst i don't venture formal opinion in this post regarding this particular example, i note that this sort of pattern has cropped up before and tends not to impress. That's just this one fellow's opinion regarding the general case



First, as you admit you are completely and abjectly new to this website, your assessment of any protocol here is of limited import.

Second, whilst i do not know of course what you are thinking, i note that the words you type seem... inappropriate. Specifically, I invite evidence to back your assertion that "dictating, pressure and heavy handedness on protocol/etiquette" are present.

Rather, what i have seen are simple observations offered with remarkable restraint and grace about what some appear to consider the presence of poor form. Hardly "Dictating"



Which pretty well says it all.

Oh, how does one meet the unstated and no doubtn very objective criteria for appreciation of "the pen" and of "my relationship"?



I remember the show LA LAW, when a neophyte lawyer defended a client in night court from a $20 Parking Ticket and invoked... lofty principles of the Constitution. The Judge chewed her out asking her why on earth is she arguing Constitutional Law about this parking ticket. Funny show. Ever since then, i've been suspicious of folks who argue High Principles (eg. Market efficiency and viability) in the setting of trivial business transactions, such as pen sales. Always suspicious when those "high principles" are in play. I also note that those who compete seriously for the rarest models are nowhere near this dicussion so far. Of course, a smattering of those who compete in less than serious fashion are here. This works out well, given that none of hte pens discussed indeed are rare.



Worthy information.

Perhaps instead of beating about the bush, we can make this easier for you still just by giving you a list of most of the big sellers in this arena (not counting me of course) who might be happy for chance to show appreciation of the relationship and pen.

Do drop notes in USA to

David Nishimura
Gary Lehrer
Geoff Berliner
Bob Novak
Ernesto Soler

I hope you find these insights of help.

regards

david

I guess things are done differently in the high end watch community?

This has gotten intresting. I can't add much being a newbee who has never even laid eyes on a 51 other than in photos. With all the 51 talk that you see here I would certainly like to give one a test run one day. As far as appreciation of the "Pen" some of us would be happy just to get an old beater in our hands to try out, much less a "Rare" whatever. And for the experts who share their information and insight..........Thank you all..........it is appreciated by those looking here to learn.

Regards,
NB

Do we have a Jr. Benz in the making?

also, what did we really expect :

I must say...from the first post, the changing texture of this thread was predictable. When David threw down the gaunlet...and rightfully so, it all changed soooo quickly. Notice the dropoff in the posters response rate.

Clearly this person is what we, or at least I call a USER. Not illegal at all...but disrespectful, ugly, and rude.

Were I inclined to buy a Parker 51 which I pretty much always am...I'd pass on this dude/dudette on principle.

I would rather look to the people who have put in the sweat equity...like David (although I have yet to buy from him ), Richard, John and all the others who contribute.

FPN...great board!!!

Peter

I was also surprised to see how the the board turned on this Poster who came looking for information and let everyone know that the pens were going up for sale.

hmmmm

- looking for information

- letting people who might be interested in buying know that pens were for sale

Both sound like good things to me!

Not offering them to those who's generosity he depended on to set price and avoid costly mistakes, very poor form.

Look this guy came here and said that he knew nothing about pens, and needed OUR help to answer his questions about them. He then inferred that if we who decided out of the goodness of our heart to help him out did not pay 25-33% more than he figured he could get on ebay, he would not deal with us. Paraphrasing obviously here, but you get my drift, I hope.

Others on this board helped him directly and indirectly to ascertain market value for some of the pens, although his $500 plum sets will most likely not sell, and he basically shat on us and did nothing to help this board. He then got testy when called to the carpet and then buggered off.

Have fun bidding on his pens, I am not interested in dealing with someone who will not do a good turn for those who have helped him. Do unto others, isn't that the saying? Well if he is not interested in selling some of his 150+ super duper rare Jumbo Large Size pens to those who helped him out (in his own words), then I am not interested in helping him.

Sean

Cool!
I still find fascinating the concept of only helping whose who will give you something back.

Glenn, as usual you are poking the embers of a fire, and missing the point at the same time. No one, including me says that the OP HAS to help us, do something for us, whatever. What all the others who have posted here are saying is that:

It would only be polite to offer something back to this forum who has helped the OP out.

I cannot state it any clearer than that. You are drawing generalities on posters in this thread based on your incorrect assumption that we will not help someone in need. Take a good long read of this thread, starting at the top. Many people offered up help, here and backchannel to help the OP determine what he had on his hands. When the OP stated that he would only sell on ebay or at a premium of another 25-33% to FPN members, that is where people's knickers got in a twist.

You know nothing of me in particular. Anyone who actually knows me knows that I would give the shirt off my back to some one in need. I don't EXPECT anything in return, but it would be nice if something was done in kind. To blatantly rub in our face that we helped the OP out, but he does not want to sell here, and will continue to take any and all advice we have to give, and then tell us how the forum ettiquette should go, that is basically reprehensible.

Sean

Please back your assertion that "the board turned on this Poster".

I did not see any turning, assuming you mean this with a negative connotation (the word is somewhat malleable I admit, but i don't gather from your context that you suggest the board- for example- put the poster on a lathe to spin him into a pen barrel). If you mean "turning" in a positive connotation, i withdraw my request, given that I found the board's examination of the issues raised to have been done in a courteous and positive fashion. If you concur with that, then we have nothing to discuss.

Indeed, the major misinformation conveyed by The Board to the Poster was that green 51's are $2000 pens as per, "A DJ Nassau Green went for $2300 last week and the DJ is more common that the Single Jewel Nassau Green" and that Jeweler's Band caps are silver, surely unhelpful to a self-declared neophyte.



regards

david

Interesting that what you find cool has nothing to do with what evolved here.

Rather analysis of "use and abuse" by a new poster seems to be more in play. Indeed, i provided him with more insights than he could shake a stick at, in my last post addressing his request for tips and insights, and he never even responded. How courteous is that?

I corrected most of his hyperbolic/grandiose errors in his ebay ads. He never even responded. How courteous is that?

I also wonder what favor was done for him by one who implied a DJ Green Nassau is a $2000 pen?

Saving grace is someone might get to buy these pens cheaply, assuming he does not simply cancel auctions, as zero feedback, one week new registration and... optimistic... opening bids on couple pens should keep most away. But... if they sell well, that's fine, as the pens do appear to be nice specimens. Of course the Paypal/No-Paypal confusion in the ad should make things... interesting... for the winners.

cheers

d

Possibly Glenn was upset that he provided erroneous pen advice to the OP and is projecting, or something. Hey, we all make mistakes. Trick is not to get cranky at others about it. That probably is what separates those who perhaps would be experts from those who do not so aspire. Other than that, i just don't get his whole point.

regards

david

I just generally didn't like this guy's approach and manner and he did not respond at all to my PM suggesting that he sell some via FPN as well.

Letting the board know that pens are going up for sale on the bay is fine.

Pumping us for information so baldly to increase his prices just feels wrong...

But...it's so nice to be able to just walk away!

I was much amused with the $2000 price tag on a nassau 51. I was thinking to myself, that geez, even Doc I couldn't get that kind of money for one, and his stuff is pretty darned nice. Even with an empire cap, tough price to reach. (not to mention the plums... wow)

Besides, if I'm going to consider a nassau, why would I want a single jewel model, no matter how rare? OMG, a pen like that needs to be a double jewel, just my opinion...

True, on the point of being considered an authority in a specific realm of pendom... It's easy to figure out where to get the info from, when you have a question, if you have been around for some time.

This whole thread is pretty amusing.