I've been talking to a friend that has been collecting pens for a L O N G time.
He has a treasure of pen he is concidering to sell and some interest me.
First even though I havent seen his pens I know all his pens are in excellent condition as he is very anal about his pens.
I know he has few Parker 51 DJ and a Parker Mandarin Yellow SR
So I would like to get some info on these pens as my knolage with these pens is very limited:

1.How many colours were Parker 51 DJ made with ?
2.Which colour is the easiest to find and which is the rarest ?
3.What are the going prices for each and every colour ?

I know Parker Duofold had colour fading issues with some of its pens like the jade.
4.Are there colour problems (fading,ambaring or anything else) with the Mandarin Yellow ?
5.How much is a Duofold Mandarin Yellow SR is worth ?

Normal production DJ 51's came in 8 colors: Dove Gray, Cedar Blue, Cordovan (Brick- like color), Black, Yellowstone (Mustard), Buckskin Beige, and Nassau Green.

I would say the easiest to find would be a black. The hardest by far is Nassau Green.

Prices for a black DJ with nothing special go for around $200-250 (for decent - good condition) on ebay, and this is the same with cordovan, and gray (be careful, the gray's blind cap can turn very dark. Condition is key for gray). Cedar blue would go for a little bit more on ebay, $250-300 (one went last month for $350).
The hard to find colors shoot up in price. I would say Buckskin is the easiest to find in the hard to find colors (Nassau, Buckskin, and Yellowstone). Buckskin is around 300-400. 2nd is Yellowstone is around 325/350 to 400 ish. Nassau rarely go for under $500, and usually peak at $700 for a nice clean example.

Some times, they go for much less in a "old ink pen" listing, where less people are going to see the auction. I recently missed an auction for a nassau green 51 in a lot of pens for $200 becasue I forgot about the auction. I am still upset at myself

Now these are ebay prices. If you were to buy from a dealer with a return policy and the pen is fully backed and estored, the price of each would go up by around 100-175. If this will be one of the only DJ 51's you will be getting, I would recommend buying the pen from a trusted dealer, or someone who has been collecting 51 pens for some time.


- For the Mandarin Yellow Duofold. Fading usually does occur but not like that of a Jade duofold. The yellow rod stock was pretty stable, but many things could happen to it (changing color etc). It is very, VERY fragile. One should never post a mandarin cap. You can see on ebay that most caps are cracked.

Price tends to be on ebay, 800-1500 for one with no cracks, and from a dealer, $1500-1900.

I hope this helped

Regards
George

Whew, that might be an overwhelming info request even for me (I like addressing questions!) especially with my limited access on dial-up this weekend.

Some basics, though...

1) All the USA well-known Vac-51 colors are found Double Jewel. Common and/or lower-cachet colors are black, gray, blue, cordovan. More scarce and/or better-cachet colors are Buckskin, Yellowstone (Mustard) and Nassau (green). Nassau tends to be priciest amongst the DJ pens, all else equal.

2) Prices are highly variable with COLOR, CAP, CONDITION and VENUE (wholesale vs retail etc) A worn out Black pen with bad cap used as barrel-assembly donor will wholesale well under $100. Retail on a Nassau with Empire solid gold cap (the cap in this case dwarfing the significance of even the nassau-ness of hte barrel) will retail in gem condition >$2,000, with regular cap still retail superb $700+ range. You are welcome to peek at my forsale (and sold pens archive) to get sense of what decent ones retail around, though prices are up vs sales from couple years back.

3) Duofolds of sort you describe are celluloid. Things happen to celluloid. Fading, crazing, cracking, staining, poor removal of personalizations, etc. I can see a Mandarin Sr. (as for nearly all pens) trashed to the point nearly of valuelessness but ratailing excellent > $1700. Condition is very very very important on these. Did i mention VERY IMPORTANT?

regards

david

1. All the Vac colors: Black, Cedar Blue, Cordovan (brown), Gray, Mustard (Yellowstone), Nassau Green, Buckskin Beige (tan).
2. Easiest - Black --- Hardest - Green (just a guess)
3. DJ are in the $250 and up range. Prices depend on the barrel color, the pen's condition, which cap it has, and the Year of manufacturer.

4. The Mandarin Yellow will darken with exposure to sulfur (rubber sacks) and is brittle, so the cap lips are prone to cracking (probably more than any other Duofold, IMHO)
5. Again, based upon if its cracked or darkened or not, perfect Mandarin Yellow Duofold Sr.s go for $1300+.

I would recommend looking at David's website, like he said, to get a good understanding of 51 prices. He has sold nice 51s and browsing his site might better narrow your search.

George

Goodguy,
To answer your questions--
1)The Parker 51,DJ or single jeweled,came in India Black,Cordovan Brown,Cedar Blue,Buckskin Beige,Mustard(some
call it Moonstone)and Nassau Green(personally my favorite choice).
2)The easiest to find is India black;the rarest are the last 3 colors--Buckskin Beige,Mustard,and Nassau Green.
3)The 1st three colors are pretty common;the last three can vary in price from several hundred dollars to over a
thousand(my experience of watching completed 51 auctions on fleabay).
4,5,6) A Mandarin Yellow Duofold in Sr size or otherwise still will command over a couple of hundred $$$--but the Sr
size will always command more since it's the largest size in the Duofold family. Mandarin Yellow was a color that wasn't
looked upon with great delight in the 1920's-30's(though Parker Sr. liked the idea of the color after a trip to China),so
not many were made,ensuring their rarity. They can discolor,or amber like any other celluloid pen, will show up as a
slightly darker discoloration of yellow or darker,depending on how badly it's discolored. I have seen a rare Duofold
model in the color of cream with gold flakes discolored to an amber color so darkly that it looked like a cola or root
beer color.

Let us know how you make out with your chance to buy two wonderful pens.

John

Thank you very much for all the information

The seller is an old friend and I would trust him with my closed eyes so no worries there.
I need the backround info so once I know what he has I will know what to expect.

I know for sure he has a Mandarin Yellow Duofold but I must admit I am a bit affraid to buy a pen this expensive only to find myself in few years with an ambared or cracked pen.
I would never use it but still these pens were not designed to stay intact forever and when you put 1000$+ on a 70 years old pen you take a BIG gamble.

Parker 51 on the other hand is known to have a very stable,good reliable body so I guess the risk of finding the pen cracked or faded in time is much smaller.

Thanks again everybody

I believe it will take about 2 months until I will get more info.
As for sharing my thoughts and what I buy-I always share it with everybody as it is for me a very important part of the whole FP collecting experience.

Well, If you keep the Mandarin in a case, nothing will happen to it. Crazing/cracking/discoloration only happens when the pen is in bad conditions - temperature, humidity etc.

George

and, by no means of disrespect to your friend, regardless of how anal he may seem, when it comes to his pens, still take the time to fully examine any pen in which your going to consider purchasing. It is very easy for someone to think that their pens are pristine, when in fact, have a multitude of defects, repairs that the novice might not see, etc... I have handled many pens over the years, and looking at something objectively rather than subjectively, is what the prospective buyer needs to do, especially when it comes to what could be considered a high end pen purchase.