This is an obviously naive question about vintage Parker Duofolds. When I look at the early ones, there is a version where the flat-top is completely untapered, and another (I am guessing, later) version, where the edges taper just a bit. What is the proper terminology to describe this difference in form? And during what time period was the un-tapered version made? I sometimes see the word "streamlined" to describe Duofolds, but I am not sure whether this refers to the flat-tops with just the slightly tapered cap, or the outright streamlines later ones, like the Vacs.

the image below (linked from peterpen.dk) illustrates the two types I would like to differentiate:


If there is a good "history of the Duofold" thread or website that explains all of this, please point me to it as I was not able to find one.

Many thanks!
QM2

I can't actually help you, but I'd like to point out that the fourth from the left is modern remake. Maybe irrelevant for your question.

The fifth from left is, as I understand it, a streamline. They were the later ones.


Mike

QM2, the difference is explained and illustrated in my Duofold profile.

Thanks. This is quite funny actually: I visit your page on a regular basis, think I've seen it all, and then never fail to discover something "new" and obvious that has been there all along.

One question I now have regarding this (from Richard's page):
"By 1917, the Jack-Knife Safety had acquired ... the button filler."
Does this mean that the later version has a self-filling mechanism? And if so, then how can it still be a "safety", which I thought are by definition eyedroppers?..

Also can somebody please confirm or correct the following info, just so I know whether I understood everything correctly:

- All Pre-Vac Duofolds, including the earliest, are button fillers and there is no such thing as an "eyedropper Duofold" (I've seen one advertised)
- If a Duofold is pre-1929, it is non-streamlined
- The Duofold remained "band-less" only for about a year after its introduction; by 1922 it had already acquired a cap band.

Thanks once again,
QM2

EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot the usual question! Were any ever made with white-metal trim -- either Duofold or Jack-Knife?..

Oh geeze, here we go again. I think I have learned to keep my mouth shut because whatever i say, based on my limited observations, some one will come a long with some obscure, off the wall exception and infer that I am a dunce.

Wait, what?... No : (((
Why would anybody ever do that to a cat?

Please make any observations you like. How can you embarrass yourself more, than me asking these questions in the fist place?

Permit me to refer you to my article Design Features: Safety Pens. I'll draw your attention especially to the gray box toward the bottom of the page.


This is generally considered to be the case.


This is generally considered to be the case.


The band was added as a $1.00 option at some point -- I don't know the exact date. It later became standard.


By default, Jack-Knife Safety (not just "Jack-Knife," as the three-word form was a trademark) pens had nickel silver furniture if they had any furniture at all. Duofolds are considered to have had gold-filled furniture from the outset, but it's not possible to prove that no Duofolds were sold with nickel silver furniture. This is my Jack-Knife Safety No. 23¹/2.

I believe JKS pens can be had with GF Trim. Will confirm when home.

regards

david

I hope I can add a couple of points to this topic.

1. All Duofolds were button fill.
2. Duofolds were never offered with nickle trim. The gold cap band was an extra-cost option, with the early (1922-1923) options being a thin cap ring (about 1/8 inch wide) and a large cap ring (about 3/4 inch wide) being available at different prices. Sorry, I can't recall the prices right now.
3. The Jack Knife Safety was available with several options: nickle clip for $0.25 extra, gold filled clip at $1 extra, gold filled cap band at $1 extra (IIRC). There was no cataloged option for a nickle cap band for the JKS series.
4, The JKS series was a "Safety Pen" because the end of the clip washer in the cap would close up agains the end of the section, effectively sealing the section from leaking. The marking campaign stated that you could put the pen in your pocket "like a jack knife" without worrying about leaking.

All the best,
John

Okay, I think I've got a proper understanding of the early Duofolds now, as well as of the Jack-Knife Safety. Thank you for patiently answering my recent onslaught of "Vintage 101" threads, as opposed to rolling your (virtual) eyes! Sometimes it is not intuitive where to find information, but once you get a few keywords or a friendly push, that can really make all the difference.

Now I will go and suffer over the tragedy of not owning a BCHR button filler Parker Jack-Knife Safety...
QM2

Well... i do have a gem available

d

Boy, it must feel good to be able to relieve people's suffering both at the hospital and in the pen world : )
I'll be in touch via PM.

That's easily remedied, as they show up pretty often on eBay and a variety of folks (David included) have them for sale. I have a few duplicates in my collection, but I usually don't sell them. Although, I just picked up a JKS 24 that's in decent shape that didn't have a nib, which will pair up nicely with the extra Lucky Curve 4 nib I have laying around.

Thanks John,

They do show up occasionally on ebay. Right now there is a non-chased hard rubber one c.1915, described as exceptionally clean and in working order, on "buy now" for $160. Is this a good indicator of price for these things? I have not gotten a feel for them yet. What would you say is a typical price for a chased hr button-fill with nickel trim, restored?

I've seen that pen out there for a while. If it's accurately described, it's not a bad price. However, I would ask for photos of the imprints (barrel, cap, and blind cap) because they should be pretty solid with minimal wear. If that turns out to be the case, then it's probably a good entry level user pen.

Just a word of clarification of the term "Safety Pen"

Modern collector convention usually uses "safety" as shorthand for a retractible safety pen - on in which the nib retracts into the barrel and allows for an extremely tight cap seal. These were, by design, all eyedroppers (I suppose you could have made a retractible safety that was not an ED, but it would have been very technically complex).

However, back in the period of 1904-1920 a safety cap was often used for any pen with a threaded cap and a an inner cap that created a tight seal against the section. Compared to the various slip-cap pens that preceded this design, they were remarkably free of leaks and had a cap that stayed securely in place when in the pocket (thus Waterman called their version the POC for "Pocket"). In the literature and advertisements of the time you will find references to pens with "safety caps" or "safety style" pens that are nothing more than threaded-cap/inner cap designs.

One thing I have to comment on with Richard's Safety page - he cites the Jack Knife safety and the screw-cap/inner cap design (patent 1028382, from 1912), implying it was the first such pen to use that inner cap design. In fact, the first pen with an inner cap and screw-cap design was the Boston Safety pens that utilized August Eberstiens patent 764,227, issued July 5th, 1904. Boston Safety built a very sucessful company using that patent and completely changed the way thay pens were made - probably 90% of all fountain pens made thereafter used some variation on the concept of an inner cap, including many still made today (though there have also been notable refinements, and a number of later pens - like the Parker 51, or Sheaffers Triumph-nibbed pens - used a different approach). Parker was actually a bit of a latecomer to the party with patent 1,028,382, which seems to rest more on the use of a removable and adjustable inner cap, as opposed to the fixed inner cap of the Eberstien patent and most other inner-cap designs.

John

I am sorry if my last post came off as impatient or sarcastic. I meant it in a light hearted manner. I thought of putting a LOL after it but did not and should have.

Parker made ED pens from their beginnings through 1920 and a lot of the JKS are ED's but the Duofold which came out about 1922 was button filled and I think all pens were afterward until the vacumatic was introduced in the early to mid 1930's.