Well, I'm working my way through a Peartree sampler of BB.
(Peliken=too much gray not enough blue, Regular Noodlers BB=What Blue?/Black)

And, I've spent HOURS scouring the ink forums and reviews.

I'm beginning to wonder if there really is what *I* consider a BLUE/Black out there
and that being an almost black with just a DEFINANT blue tone to it. Not green. BLUE.
I'd like enough BLUE in it so there is NO doubt that it's NOT a black but enough BLACK
to know it's not a blue either.

I'm starting to think this is one of those ink exercises that will either drive you crazy
or cross eyed, or both.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Try Platinum or Mont Blanc or Skrip.

Yes, it will drive you crazy, if you let it! I like Noodler's Legal Lapis and I think it's a Blue-Black - it has great shading.

Also, make sure you use a nib that is broad enough so you can get the full effect.

I wish you the best in your Don Quijote's quest!

Erick

Skrip or Legal Lapis are my own choices. LL is blue-er to my eye.

The human eye has a large bias towards seeing things as green, so they may look green to you, as they do to many people.

Good luck. I really enjoy writing with blue/black ink.

There really is no consensus on what color is blue-black, so there is a ton of variation. When I think of BB, I think of Waterman's BB, which is classic in my mind, but people will complain of the green tint, but I'm often disappointed when I buy an ink which is simply a dark blue.

I think that if you really want to be happy, mix up your own blue black. This is what I do when I want a stronger blue tone. I've gotten good results with Waterman's Florida blue and Noodler's black.

PR Midnight Blues, Sailor Blue Black, Diamine Blue-Black, Noodler's Legal Lapis...

The above are in order, from the one I think would most meet your requirements (Midnight Blues), to the one I feel would least meet your requirements (Legal Lapis).

Regards,

JJ

Richard Binder's website partly explains why blue-black inks look green:

"blue-black An ink color originating with iron gall ink, whose blue component (indigo) fades to leave black as the ink’s iron salts oxidize. Modern fountain pen inks are colored with aniline dyes; since there is no true black aniline dye, these inks usually assume a greenish hue as the blue dye fades. See also iron gall ink."

PR Midnight Blues and Noodlers Midnight Blue are next on my Peartree sampler.

JJ (and others) I think I read on one of the many (Many!) ink reveiws that someone
felt the Noodlers MB was the darker of the two, is there a consensus here on that?

The Skrip looks promising (JJ your scan on your reivew of it is inop on my computer)
but ink isn't available locally here and Peartree doesn't carry it (and if I get ink there
it resets my sampler availability). I'll have to wait til I need more Rhodia I guess before
I can try the Skrip and get it elsewhere.

Thank you all for your help.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Noodler's Midnight Blue is a bit darker than PR's Midnight Blues, though there's not much in it, especially if you use a fairly wet nib. You may also want to try the Noodler/FPN Starry Night, though you may think it's too grey, not blue enough. PR's Electric Blue is so dark it might qualify too, though maybe it's not black enough for you. All of these, by the way, are far darker/more saturated than the blue-blacks made by most other companies, especially those whose names are associated with pens (Parker, Sheaffer, etc.). The only blue-black made by such a company that I've tried recently and that looks like blue-blacks used to look is Pelikan's: it really does look like a cross between blue and black and doesn't fade to some sort of green/teal. If you an ink that's not very saturated, try that, or mix your own (add Waterman Havana to Waterman Blue Black, or add some black to Waterman Florida Blue). (As you've probably found out by now, the so-called blue-blacks made these days by Waterman, Parker, Yard-o-led and Diamine aren't blue-black at all.)

Simon

I'm using the Pelikan BB now. It's better than the Noodlers BB in color but I am also getting some of the gray instead of blue when it drys. It also doesn't seem to flow for me as smoothly as the Noodlers. I'm using it in an Esite M and have a Waterman Phileas coming soon, maybe that will be wetter than the Estie. We'll see. It is interesting to me looking at all the reviews and scans wondering what so many manufacturers are thinking when they put "Blue/Black" on the label.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

You are correct. There is no good blue black ink on the market today. They're all either greenish (Waterman, Parker, Diamine, Noodlers) or grayish (Pelikan, Sheaffer, Sailor) or just plain blue (Pilot, Platinum). The one with the best color (PR Midnight Blues) dries slowly and smears.

Curiously, the Italian companies (Aurora, Omas, Visconti, Delta) don't even attempt to make blue black ink.

To my eye the new FPN Van Gogh Starry Night Blue is black with just the hint and I mean hint of blue.

I know it doesn't help to keep whining about reality, but I just don't get it. It shouldn't be rocket surgery. It seems others here have been able to find "a better mouse ink" (sorry, sometimes I just crack myself up!) by mixing their own using just 2 other inks. Sooo, it doesn't seem it should be that hard for the companies to do.

I hate to think I'll have to mix my own to get what I want too. Especially, since I didn't take any notes in my research here on THAT angle of a solution and that means basically starting combing back through it all again.

(Maybe the Noodlers MB will work, especially if it's darker than PR MB and doesn't have the slow drying problem, but I'm not holding my breath.)

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Part of the problem is that we all have our own idea of what the perfect blue-black should look like.

There are a couple of threads on mixing your own blue-black. General consensus is to get a blue and a black (often from the same company, like Parker Quink or Sheaffer Skrip) and try proportions of black:blue from 1:20 to 1:15 to 1:10. Somewhere in that range you will find your perfect colour. Don't start with ratios of 1:1, as you will only get black. Only use a very small proportion of black to blue.

Image shack did the same thing to my Sailor Blue-Black pic as well. I've got them back up, for those that are interested.

I've found that Noodler's inks dry slower when compared to Private Reserve, for what that's worth.

Regards,

JJ

I have found what for me is the perfect Blue-Black ink. I take Waterman Blue Black, which is a darker blue, and add about 10% Waterman Black. I call it Waterman Blue Black Black, and it looks like blue black should to me, though YMMV. That also allowed me to use a bottle of Waterman BB Ink that I would never use otherwise.

I also use a lot of Legal Lapis. With an Esterbrook 9284 nib, it comes out very much Blue Black ink, and doesn't require any mixing (but does require shaking the bottle before use!)

For the true Blue Black fan, finding a suitable ink puts him, or her, on the path of mission impossible. What you want is an indefinable blueness to your black ink, which shades to blue when the ink is thin, but otherwise looks dark, shading to black. I know, I know-I was on this course for some time. I had to abandon the quest-or abandon all hope of sanity. I chose sanity

Regards and Good Luck,

Wade

Wade, I think my definition of BB is about one notch more BLUE than yours.

Mine should Definately NOT be a black, but definately NOT be (just) a dark blue either.

More of a, "Well that almost looks like a black except that it's kind of blue".

(For me, Noodlers DOES have that nice "two toned" effect to it, unfortunately, the second
tone (for me) isn't blue...)


Bruce in Ocala, FL

My favorite blue-black ink I've found is the Cross one, that i've used in cartridge form. I bought a bottle of Lamy blue-black, hoping it would be similar, but I have been supremely disappointed. The Lamy "blue-black" is gray, temperamental and corrosive (iron-gall based). Grrrrrr.

I think I am getting there believe it or not.

I loaded up tonight with Noodler's Midnight Blue and between it and either the Noodler's BB or
Pelikan BB, it comes closest to what I am looking for. While I think I can live with this for awhile
it's still just a hair too blue.

If I wanted to add just a touch of black, should I stick with Noodler's black or does it matter? Is
there another black that would work any better?

Thanks,

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Bruce, you might try diluting your Noodler's B-B. Just a little, not too much. I've never done it, myself ('cause I like the color as is -- it may look black, but it has a certain "pop" to it, which makes it special), but I'm thinking that a thinner solution might bring out the blue a bit more. Don't know for sure. But you don't lose much by trying.

P.S. If you're going to add black to Noodler's Midnight Blue, I'd make it Noodler's Black, [acronym="If I Were You"]IIWY[/acronym]. Midnight Blue has little water resistance, so the Noodler's B will add some in that department. Plus, it's a great ink to add to just about anything. [acronym="In My 'Umble Opinion"]IMUO[/acronym].

ACCKKKK!

Viseguy, you're just trying to push me over the edge with the Noddler's BB idea right? Or drive me to being
cross-eyed squinting at the writing to see if I *really do* see green highlights in my NEW homemade BB right?

Thanks for the heads-up on the Noodler's black.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

After trying any blueblack ink I could get I came back to good old Pelikan blueblack.

I have a wonderful broad, wet vintage Pelikan 400 nib that makes this ink look blueblack, not like anything greyish. This pen will be filled with Pelikan blueblack exclusively.

Other than this I use a 1:1 mix of Pelikan blue and Pelikan blueblack to get a bit more blue and a 1:1 mix of Quink blue and Quink blueblack. Still greenish, but much better than blueblack itself. Pelikan requires wet ink flow, otherwise it is pale and greyish. Quink works with any ink flow.

My teal blue Parker 51 is allowed to write with something greenish. Either Rohrer & Klingner verdirgris, Diamine blueblack or Noodlers midnight blue. But I do not consider any of these inks a blueblack ink

I've tried a few, not as many as some surely, but enough to know what you're saying. FWIW when I have done the coffee filter test on PR Midnight Blues I get blue and nothing but blue - albeit a nice rich dark navy blue, but no black. Noodlers Blue Black separated into black and what looks like regular noodlers blue - a medium royal blue. Aircorps Blue Black separates into black and turquoise - hence the decidedly green tint.

Personally I like Waterman Blue Black - not perfect but pretty darn good and my favorite blue black these days is Noodlers Ellis Island Blue Black - which to me is definitely dark and close to black with just a hint of slate blue undertone - imagine a darker legal lapis (which in my case at least is more towards the slate blue end of the spectrum than black), and not as blue as Waterman.

My all time favorite blue black ink, however, is the ST Dupont Blue Black which you can buy in cartridges in the US but the bottles apparently just aren't imported and are even apparently hard to find overseas. I've seen the cartridge line, however, and it is a near perfect vintage looking blue black.

I actually like the Namiki blue black cartridges fairly well, although I don't know that there is much black in that mix, it looks a lot like Midnight Blues to me.

Yeah, I'm gaslightin' ya, man. Just keep posting here and you'll be flat-out crazy in no time.

B-B is a great color to obsess about because there're so many goshdarn permutations of it. Blue-green-black-gray... it's endless.

You've also got to consider the pen-color effect. Does the ink look greener in a green pen? Bluer in a blue pen? It does, doesn't it? Well, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does. I think so, anyway. Play around with it, see whatcha think...

Bwa-ha-ha! <-- Charles Boyer

Try PR Midnight Blues, and add some PR Black (all current PR colors are compatible for mixing) to desaturate to your exact liking.

I am obviously easy to please... I use the Parker blue-black cartridges, and the Namiki/Pilot blue-black cartridges, and think they are both great - a lovely colour on the page. Funnily enough though, I don't like the bottled equivalents of each as they are too grey or green for my liking. Cartridges are also better for me with all the travelling I do (so no messing around with bottles and refilling).

I myself am not easy to please. My mix is basically black but with a noticeable purple (no, not violet) touch and just a hint of brown. Please, no gray and no green here.
But I think the most important thing here has already been said above. It's not the ink that makes the colour, it's the pen and the nib that make the colour.
E.g. if I make one single mix and load it in 9 pens, I get 9 different colours. All with M or B nibs, my NN or Aurora Optima are the lightest and 51 or Crest are the darkest. Miles and miles apart.

Mike <-- Mix No. 10

PS: I have to edit and edit because if you think I can't write decently with any pen or pencil in my hand then you should see how crippled I am at trying to hit the right key at the right time on the wrong keyboard. MAN!

I like Lamy Blue Black in a Lamy Safari pen. It comes out Blue Black, just like it says. And it's permanent and waterproof, so all my tear-stained journals will be readable by my grandchildren, should they ever find them.

Oh, iron gall inks are reputed to eat pens for breakfast. So that's why I'm using a Safari, not some expensive bling thing...

Private Reserve Midnight Blues - very much a blue-black.

Incorrect. There is 1 that I know of: The blue-black in the Pilot Petit1. It is NOT the same as the blue-black in their cartridges, nor in their desert topping sized bottle from Japan. It is black with a just obvious hint of blue.

I have been tempted to buy refills and put them into a bottle for my nicer pens.

I hate myself for saying this but for me the blue-black ink in the Uniball Vision Elite gel pen (0.5mm) is very close to the perfect blue-black. It is dark but definitely blue and has an understated (although a bit boring) look that I like.
Is there a fountain pen color that looks like it (but more lively)?

In the meantime I've discovered MB's B-B. Not bad, maybe it's because it contains iron gall.

Mike

You might like to try Sailor Blue/Black or Diamine Blue-Black.




Martok

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ellis Island BB from FPH.

As far as a blueish BB, I rather like Platinum BB. Legal Lapis is kinda sorta a BB, but not likely the one you're looking for- it's very greenish. If you don't consider the color of Noodlers BB to be very blue, then skip the Legal Lapis. For the record, I love the Legal Lapis.

In the end, a lot of people end up mixing their own to get the kind of *blue* black they mean. Ink companies seem to disagree with the segment who wants that kind of BB.

Aaron

I think you're looking for a black blue not a blue black Take a look at some of the Noodler's inks. Or if you just can't find it get some blue that you like and start mixing!


Kurt

What I was going to say....!!!!!!!!!

I've had a similar problem with blue-black, and I've tried almost all of them.
This is what works for me:

Tibaldi blue-black (similar to PR Black Magic blue, but more gray, and less saturated).
PR Black Magic Blue
PR Midnight Blues

The thing to do is to take the two PR inks and mix them to taste.
Midnight Blues has a more cyan aspect, and BMB is more "purply"
Together they make a really noble blue - my mix is sort of cobalt, but very dark.
By the way, the idea was proposed on this forum about a year ago, a propos the ideal dark blue mix.

Eric

my recipe is:
4 parts Waterman South Sea Blue
1 part Waterman Black

mix drop by drop, test for color

I too am surprised that nobody has mentioned Noodler's Ellis Island BB from Fountain Pen Hospital (although I guess that's not true now ). It is definitely closer to black than blue, with just a slight undertone of slate blue underneath it all. I think it would qualify as a "Black Blue" rather than a blue black. It was the first thing that jumped to mind when I saw the original post.

MB/Lamy BB is pretty much like the Pelikan BB: It can be very nice coming out of a wet nib. Rohrer & Klingner Salix (another iron gall BB) is not so picky and closer to blue than MB/Lamy BB. Have the Lamy BB in a Lamy vista right now but the ink flow is a little bit dry. Coming out of a M150 nib (my ink test nib) it looks much more appealing. Have to find a better pen for this ink

It will be interesting to try this out, but I don't see why this should get round the problem of the black drying to a greenish shade. Does it do so?

I tried out, and slightly altered, a suggestion on this site: mix blue-black with red ( I finally settled on 7:1 ) and then I added 2 of Florida Blue. I stuck to Waterman's for all three colours. That still looked just a touch greenish (but a nice dark green) so I added 1/4 part red on top. That finalizes as 7 blue-black: 2 Florida Blue: 1 or 1.25 of red. But while the red seems to neutralize the green tint it can easily introduce a purple one.

I quite liked it but not enough to try it a second time and personally prefer the Pelikan BB as long as the ink-flow is not too thin.

Anyone else think my way about the Skrip BB: that it dries to a weak thin brownish shade that is very disappointing? Could just be poor quality paper, I suppose.

Thomas

The blue-black that comes in the Pilot Petit1. Which is different than the normal Pilot blue-black. One could call it black-blue just as easily as blue-black, but to me the 'normal' blue-blacks are just blues, sometimes a bit darker, but no black to them.

I had hoped the FPN Van Gogh Midnight Blue would be THE blue-black for me, in permanent form and available in bottles, but it is too dark (no hint of blue in my fine point Prera). Drat. I already have a bottle of black ink. I don't want to mix ink but I may be forced to.