I happened to stumble on Roaring Springs Wide Ruled composition books this weekend at Gordonville Bookstore near Lancaster Pa......an Amish religious bookstore. I think they were $1.29 each.


Tony

Oooh, how did I miss this thread? Last month, I stocked up on a few marbled ones at Target. At fifty-cents each, I got almost a dozen books -- clearing the store of its pink and purple ones. I have this black one right now that i can't wait to use up so that I can start digging into my loot.

I know they're cheap but I don't care. I find that a fine point pen works just fine with very little if any bleed-through. I can use the disposable FPs too but I have to write fast enough as these pens are fairly wet.

The black marbled cover: Ugh. There is no need. If you shop around, every now and then Target sells them in funky designs (but not at fifty cents, more like $2.50 to $3.00). I saw a few with bright circles on the cover. Another one had a brown wood print with a white tree. The Office Depot near me had some with solid pink covers. If worse comes to worst, use gift-wrapping paper or grocery store bag paper or even shopping bag plastic to cover it up. :-)

Why does everyone ELSE find these on sale?

Am I right in thinking that fountain pen ink is not the strongest or darkest? I can't understand why my pilot rollerball (precise v.7) bleeds through my composition book worse than my medium Waterman phileas with Noodler's ink.

I dunno about everyone else but I wait until August when all the back-to-school sales are going on.

If a school supply doesn't usually come out in a funky color, it might in August but August only. Took me a few Augusts but, I finally scored a pink graphing calculator this year. This year instead of waiting till after they sold out, I decided to jump on one. The point of this is that if you're also looking for comp books in something other than marbled black, August is your time. All the comp books at Target are now black only.

For those of you whose have notebooks that are at least a few years old, how does the paper last? I read a review where someone complained that composition notebook paper gets brittle and yellow. Have any of you had such an experience?

I can only agree that for the money these are the best. I've been buying them for twenty years and they still the great little book they where when I started using them.


.....Stani

I have one that is 37 years old and has been stored in less than optimum conditions at many points in its existence, and it has held up remarkably well. There is a little yellowing of the paper and fading of the old ballpoint ink I used as a teenager, but still in good shape overall.

The paper in this old comp book seems a lttle more substantial than the paper in more recently manufactured ones. Since the paper is probably some sort of wood pulp, my guess is that there is a high acid content, or ph level, or whatever it is that makes paper deteriorate. So they certainly won't last as long as journals or notebooks with higher quality, acid free paper. Whether a new composition book will start to get yellow and brittle in just a few years or whether it takes decades, I can't say.

It's not August any more. PHAIL.

I ran across a stack of these in the supply closet at my office, and, um, appropriated one. Ours are 'National' brand, made in Brazil. True to others' experience, the paper is quite nice and overall seems to perform better than the paper in my Moleskine. Not sure where these came from, my assumption is an office supply wholesaler, maybe Corporate Express? I'll do some investigating.

August 2009 hasn't happened yet.

I have one or two of those, and they are indeed made in Brazil. I've also got ones that just read The Original Marble Cover (made in Roaring Springs, PA), Pen-Tab (made in Brazil), American Scholar (made in India), and a REALLY old 'National' that was made in the USA. The Staples comp book that I just bought this year is made in 'Nam.

I think the Brazilian paper's pretty decent, haven't tested the others yet.

I haven't mentioned in this thread but may have elsewhere... but if you're looking for a pocket notebook I definately recommend the pocket comp notebooks they have at WalMart. I'm one of those don't-shop-at-walmart folks, but this little notebook is great, and I've found found anything nearly as nice at any meatspace store around here. With some elastic from Michael's, and some duct tape, I added a Moleskineish band to keep it shut.

The best thing about these little pocket comps is that they're sewn, just like their big sisters. Most of the pocket comp-looking notebooks I've come across at Target, OfficeMax and elsewhere all use a really crappy glue binding that failed after a couple of weeks of being carried in a manpurse- prolly last a few days in a pocket or at the bottom of a backpack. If you turn the page, the sheet falls out.

At the WalMart around here, they're 77 cents US. 80 sheets/160 pages and college ruled. The paper is quite a bit nicer than the paper in the regular-sized composition books I've used, both no-name ones and the ones made by Mead, nicer than Ampad Evidence or Gold Fibre. 4.5x3.25, same width as my pocket Moleskine, but shorter. They fit in pockets easier, the cover is flexible cardboard but the one I've been carrying for a few months is still intact. And, unlike my Moleskine, they actually lay flat.

On the back it says something like "Made for Walmart Stores Inc." Made in China. THe last half of the barcode is 080359, but the first half is covered by the duct tape. I've been using these more and more, largely because of my ingrown Minnesotan fear of actually using anything too nice- because of the higher cost, I tend to only put real information into the Moleskine, but I doodle and play a ton in the cheapos.

The Moleskine is the hard drive, and the Walmart pocket comps are the RAM? Something like that.

Aaron

I picked up a couple of those cheapo Wal-Mart mini-comp books a while back and have also found them to be solidly made. The only caveat I would express is that there seems to be some wide variance in the paper that gets used. They had a couple of dozen on the rack at the store and pulling out several at random, I found some with quite nice paper and some that was like glossy newsprint or something. So I would recommend looking inside before you buy.

Thanks for the warning!

OOOO....I LOVE those little comp books. I have a few of them including one that's been traveling around with me for at least two years and it's still perfect! The binding really holds up well and the paper in mine is nice too.

After reading this post, I went and checked the backs of a bunch of comp notebooks I bought a few months ago at walmart during their back to school sale for a quarter each and sure enough they are that same made in brazil ones as talked about here! I am so excited to have lucked out and at 4 for a dollar, what a deal!

I believe someone mentioned that the Mexico-made ones are (Potty Mouth), and I can confirm this.
I bought one today knowing full well it probably wasn't any good, but it was what they had,
and hey, it was a buck. Norcom, I believe the brand was. I can still use it with a pencil,
but I won't go near it with anything wetter. Ink bleeds through the back side of the page
onto the next page.
Pure-dee ca-rap.

Today's consolation is that I also acquired a Black N' Red, A5 size, spiral, polypropylene
covers. Nice 24 lb paper -- does not bleed or bleed through. Only thing is, it seems a bit
water resistant; my ink took quite a while to dry on it.
-jon

EDIT: Potty Mouth?? BWAAHAAHA

A QUARTER?

You people are killing me.

OK, the question about how long the paper in a standard composition book will last got me to looking around, and I found this interesting article about paper deterioration from the Library of Congress:

http://www.loc.gov/preserv/deterioratebrochure.html

Since, as I said above, I'm assuming that the paper in composition books is made from wood pulp, it will not have a very long life. But "long" is a relative term. If you expect your composition books to be around in 100 years for some descendant or archivist to read, you should probably find another sort of notebook/journal. If 50 years is acceptable, then your jottings will probably still be available, though they will have shown some real deterioration by then.

Another article I ran across said that it is practically impossible to predict how long a given piece of paper will last. There are so many variables -- ranging from its manufacture to its use and storage -- that affect its duration. I think composition books have a certain fundamental charm, and their impermanence may be part of that. They certainly are not an archival medium for storing one's writings.

I have one here that has a first date of 1992 - still looks great, but there's a little yellowing of the paper edges, though nothing dramatic.

It's a blank paper (no rules) one made by Vernon McMillan (A Boorum & Pease Co.) and it says "Made in U.S.A." And, for my convenience, there's also a Metric chart in the back with U.S. Equivalents. Ever hopeful, eh?

I used a comp book for lab write ups but haven't used one for notes taken in class. I don't see anyone in my classes using them so they don't seem very popular. I get a lot of bleeding using regular spiral notebooks so I may have to switch to something a bit higher quality. Guess I'll have to buy a couple different brands of comp books and see which has the least bleeding. BTW they are about 20-50 cents here.

After reading the OP around the back to school time, I purchased 4 comp notebooks at WalMart. I am taking them today to the Dallas Pen Show to use for people to try out nibs, because the paper is about as good as some samples of Clairefontaine someone gave me. All this for $0.50 each!!

Donnie

Keep it up, people.

I just picked up a new order of Roaring Springs composition notebooks, and I was very disappointed. First of all, one of the reasons I liked Roaring Springs was because they were made in PA America--not outsourced to some third world country--so I didn't have to spend 10 minutes looking through their notebooks to make sure I bought the right "Made in..." product. Well, when I picked this stack up from my local bookstore, the quad ruled said "Made in India," the paper was descent, but not like the older ones I had. I also picked some unruled notebooks--they were AWFUL!!! They were just like tracing paper. The bleed through wasn't the most irritating; what I hated most was that the actual indentation of the pen into the paper showed through and was more frustrating!

I picked up a Roaring Springs yesterday. The quality was disappointing.
Horrible feathering and bleed-through with a Pilot Varsity; not quite as
bad with Waterman Fla. Blue. I expected better performance from the 20 lb. paper.
-jon

Hey, Europeans -- don't forget about the little school handwriting exercise books.
(Got one right here, picked up for something like 20 pence.)

Granted, they are much thinner (about 50 pages / 100 sides), but if you can pick them up cheap, they are usually made for fountain pens, since that's what kids in school are taught handwriting with. (or at least used to be)

The lines may not be for everyone (since it's designed for handwriting) but it's not a bad thing. You sort of get in a habit to stay within certain lines after a while...

We never get cool stuff like that here.

Just saw a nice variation on the composition book at a Borders' Paperchase. It's the same size and configuration as regular composition books, with very stiff glossy covers in colorful patterns, with fairly heavy paper inside. I didn't check the price or see how many sheets were in each one, but I was pretty impressed (though I didn't much care for the colors and patterns on the covers).

That reminds me: UK Paperchase has a sort of rock n roll theme collection out right now that include, yes, US-style composition books for 2quidfiddy. I am willing to bet that these are the only comp books in the continent, excepting the half dozen that I brought back from my hometown this summer, so if the Britons are curious, get them before they switch them out.

Please indulge my neurosis but…

Is anyone else peeved when the pages aren’t stiched down the center but off to the side a bit? Does anyone else like to go through the shelves looking for the most centered stitching?

Also: I got the Roaring Spring unruled comp book. Black marble cover, meh. Please tell me this isn’t my only option for unruled comp books. However the paper is “heavyweight” whatever that means but I look forward to doing some ink tests on it.

Pink Ink, LOL. I never really noticed.

I did notice that all the composition books these days are made in India, and TERRIBLE. They bleed, they feather, and little strands of the page get stuck in my fountain pen nib. AGGHHHH!!! I'm going to stick to spiral bound!!!

Made in India = bad. Duly noted. The ones I bought last week at Staples are made in Brazil and the paper is excellent — thin so there’s a lot of show through with thick lines and dark inks but, no feathering at all.

I've found that Wal-mart and Office Depot are the best sources for the Made in Brazil ones with the better paper. At Office Depot, you do have to hunt a little--some of the "fashion" ones with patterns on the cover are "Made in Brazil" and have good paper, some (within the same stack at the store!) are made in Vietnam or India or China and have nasty, spongy, fibrous paper that takes ink about as well as bad newsprint. Ick.

But the "Made in Brazil" ones are nice, bright, smooth paper. I can write on both sides with a fairly wet writer with very minimal show-through and no bleeding (except, alas, for the Baystate inks). They don't feather much if at all with most pens and ink, either.

Wal-mart almost always has stacks of "Norcom" brand com books that are also the nicer paper. The last batch I got there were the colored marble covers. The black and white ones were some sort of inferior paper...Vietnam, I think. This time of year, they cost the princely sum of 92 cents each. As others have noted, they're sometimes as little as half that near the beginning of the school year. They're a little rougher than the Office Depot ones--sometimes stitched a little off, and I've come across at least one that didn't have the right number of pages, but for the price, you can't beat 'em.

I soooo love comp books! Not that I don't use all the other nice papers I can get my hands on, but for my fiction scribbling and even for journals, I keep coming back to composition books. No lost pages, perfect size, durable and cheap.

It's true what you're saying about paper quality. I've even tested it in spiral-bound notebooks. The new paper is awful.

Never again will I get rid of an old unused notebook.

Brazil, right? I'll check next time =)

I got about 5 of the 3-subject composition books from a local buy-out place for 0.50 each.
I currently use one for story-writing.
And my current journal is one of those leather-look ones from walmart that I got from the same place.
But yes! they work pretty good as long as you're not about to soak the page with ink. I can see my writing through the page, but as long as it doesn't bleed through, I'm happy. Also, for the price, you can afford to skip the back of the page.

I would like to find a cover for them that's leather and doesn't cost $30, though.

Hobby Lobby sells a kid skin for ~$26 that ought to cover
3 of the what? A5 size? 8x10 or whatever they are.
A whole lot of the pocket size.

Having noticed the difference between older and newer papers (an' in don't come down in favor of the new) I will never again give away old notebooks, no matter how purdy the new covers are.

I salvaged four or five older spiral-bound books ranging from 5/7 to the standard 8.5x11---NO INK shows through on the reverse side, ever!

Good thing I kept some old comp notebooks.

hrm...oddly enough, There's a hobby lobby back at the university...so I'll have to check there. And post pictures if I ever make a cover for them.
Thank you.

You're onto me.

That Brazilian paper is nice, isn't it! ;-)

I always stock up on these when back-to-school time comes. Walmart has the best prices.

I usually get some spiral notebooks as well, those have had nice paper in them the past few years.

Another thing I do with them, since I run a print shop, I have access to a large guillotine cutter. I have chopped the comp books into smaller notebooks to fit in various leather covers and such that I have.

After reading all of these great comments, I ordered a cover from PLE Designs and stopped on the way home from work to pick up a couple of Norcom composition notebooks from WalMart. Found a couple made in Brazil. Can't wait to try them out.

Oops...I meant to run back to this thread and post a link, and I forgot. For those who might still be looking for a leather composition book cover, I recently received a Renaissance Art custom cover. My thoughts (and a few pictures) are here! I'm very pleased with it. I go through about a comp book a month when I'm writing regularly...I figure the cover will have paid for itself in a few months, when compared to the cost of your typical Moleskine level notebook! And I prefer the paper and size of these....

Great way to add a touch of luxury to the lowly composition book.

A cheaper (non-leather) cover that I have found at Target and Officemax is the "Cambridge City". Cambridge is part of the Mead company. I have found the cover in two sizes and the smaller one fits the marbled notebook. The "Cambridge City" comes with a wirebound notebook. It works well, too, but I prefer using the marbled notebook in the cover. I tried to find a picture, but they don't have one on their website.

ht

So I went today over my lunch break and grabbed one of the Wal Mart ones made in Brazil. Wow! I'm quite impressed I think I'm going to pick up a few more of these as even my wettest writing Levenger True Writer with Waterman South Seas didn't bleed through nor any feathering. Very pleased and cheap (sure, I paid full price at $.98 with tax, but still. That's not bad at all!)

Yeah, I noticed that. I wrote in my target moleskine knockoff. and my moleskine, and the cahier. There was feathering, some bleeding, and it wrote a little wider. and then in my previous journal that's a cheap comp book, no feathering, no bleeding, and it wrote much finer.
So I think I'm going to switch everything to comp books eventually. they're cheap enough.

Recently, I’ve had the best luck with made in Brazil comp books. As for how to shop for them, what I do is, when they’re on sale, I buy one and if it’s good then I go back to the store and stock up.

But even if a comp book turns out to have crappy paper, that’s okay too. I’ll just use it for scrap paper. Having a scrap notebook around cuts down on the post-it notes. Plus, instead of a gajillion notes everywhere, everything is neat and tidy in one place. ;-)

I love composition notebooks - especially the grid-paper ones.

I cut a clear page protector in two, so now it's ~9 by ~5 inches, and keep the bottom half and throw away the top half. Then, I turn it sideways, and tape (clear packing tape) the bottom edge of the protector along the front edge of the inside cover of the notebook. Now, I have a pocket. The opening of the pocket faces the spine of the notebook, so that things don't fall out when the book is closed. You can put two or three of these pockets into the front and the back covers, just offset them a little. Instant filing system, lol. Also really nice for photos.

I make a pen holder book mark by taking an approx 18 inch length of 1/2 inch gros grain ribbon and folding up the last approx 12 inches, and then stitch up each side of the ribbon, to make an approx 6 inch long pen-pocket with an approx 6 inches left to the ribbon. (Burn the cut edges of the ribbon to prevent unraveling.) I put a strip of duck tape near the spine of the inside of the front and back cover. I use the tiny gold safety pins and pin the bookmark to the duck tape - I use 2 pins. Now, the ribbon can mark the place, and it can hold a pen or pencil. I put one in the front and back covers.

Now, I have my everyday book. I just retired my last one and made my new one. My last one was hauled around with me every day for the past TWO years! It's no where near falling apart, it's just that I ran out of pages. I did have to re-attach the cover about half way through. I took it off, duck taped the inside of the spine, and re-sewed the pages to the cover. Then, ducktaped the outside and I was good to go.

I just appointed a moleskine flexible cover notebook in this manner, and I am having my doubts. The flexible cover doesn't play nicely with my two pen bookmarks. Hmmm... Maybe I'll take the cover off of a composition book and attach it? Hmmm...

My old composition book was soooo fat with all of the stuff I stuck inside. Another filing tip - take an "office" size envelope, and unfold the flap, so it sticks up. Give it a quarter turn, and arrange the envelope in your comp notebook so that the bottom of the envelope is parallel to the spine of the notebook, face up, and the point of the flap is pointing to the front edge of the notebook. Now, lick the adhesive, and stick it onto the page. It makes a really nice receipt holder - just the right size, and nothing will fall out. It is also good for holding other things into your notebook. You can do the same thing with other sizes of envelopes, but the standard office size one is my fave. I also like the brown, rectangle envelopes for this use, but you have to stick the flap to the other side of the page, and fold the flap over the page, and I don't like this .

@RosemaryKnits: Oooh, your ideas sound so cook especially the pen holder. I was wondering if by any chance, you make altered composition books. I was looking at the ones at Etsy and I am intrigued but I have no clue what kind of glues to use for the papers and ribbons.

Hello! Well, I *guess* you could call it altered composition books - I just want, and need, a knock around notebook for all of my brilliant thoughts, lol. I draw my own calendars into these notebooks, so it serves as sort of a day-planner and note taker. Nothing fancy, but I can't live without it. Which is why I'm concerned about the whole Moleskine notebook thing - I'm not sure I'm ready for the change, lol. I was drawn to the "no lines" bit, but the paper seems really thin, so I'm not sure. lol

I don't glue in the ribbon - I pin it to a bit of duck tape. The fabric in the duck tape is what allows the pin to hold the ribbon, and the duck tape has wonderful glue.

I also knit, http://rosemaryknits.blogspot.com for endless blathering on that topic.

Those are some pretty good ideas, rosemary!

And Lord help me, I just came home with two new comp notebooks.