fpfanatic5
Jun 20 2008, 04:50 PM
I was unscrewing the section of my beautiful Golden Brown Striated Sheaffer Balance yesterday, and I realized that there was a small crack on the barrel under the threads. I did some further investigation, and realized that there is also a circular crack around the circumference of the barrel. The area on which the top two threads rest is almost completely broken off, with just a bit of the circumference still holding the piece in place.
Is there anything that I can do?
gmberg
Jun 20 2008, 05:37 PM
Victor Chen of Penopoly is a crack wizard. You might ask him.
Gerry
Ron Z
Jun 20 2008, 10:29 PM
This is one where you are best to send it off to be repaired. When done right, the repair can be very solid and almost invisible. Superglue or other adhesives will make a proper repair difficult if not impossible. I have one in the shop at the moment that had an identical problem, but the outcome is still in question because of the use of glue.
fpfanatic5
Jun 20 2008, 11:29 PM
QUOTE(Ron Z @ Jun 20 2008, 05:29 PM) [snapback]646181[/snapback]
This is one where you are best to send it off to be repaired. When done right, the repair can be very solid and almost invisible. Superglue or other adhesives will make a proper repair difficult if not impossible. I have one in the shop at the moment that had an identical problem, but the outcome is still in question because of the use of glue.
Thanks Ron, advice appreciated. I didn't expect that I'd be able to do it myself, I was actually wondering if it was possible at all. Thanks for giving me hope.
jicaino
Jun 21 2008, 02:11 AM
very low viscosity super glue gives excellent results. You can "prime" the crack area by sparingly brushing it with a VERY THIN natural hair brush (000) and MEK (metil ethil keton) I use a DELRIN mandrel for lining up the barrel with the threaded section (those pens always crack there!) and once the glue catched I hold the barrel in the lathe and with a negative to zero rake tool cut the ID about .75 mm larger and slide a brass or german silver sleeve, then trim a little the section and voila. That would require pro repair if you're not a skilled machinist (not necessarily a pro but an accomplished hobbyst would do!)
Ron Z
Jun 21 2008, 12:35 PM
QUOTE(jicaino @ Jun 20 2008, 10:11 PM) [snapback]646387[/snapback]
very low viscosity super glue gives excellent results. You can "prime" the crack area by sparingly brushing it with a VERY THIN natural hair brush (000) and MEK (metil ethil keton) I use a DELRIN mandrel for lining up the barrel with the threaded section (those pens always crack there!) and once the glue catched I hold the barrel in the lathe and with a negative to zero rake tool cut the ID about .75 mm larger and slide a brass or german silver sleeve, then trim a little the section and voila. That would require pro repair if you're not a skilled machinist (not necessarily a pro but an accomplished hobbyst would do!)
I'm sorry, I disagree. Super glue cures in by reacting with moisture, and will eventually fail because it continues to react. There are some exceptions, as when using a "hardened" glue, but it's best to avoid it in pen repair. It also does not have enough surface area to form an effective bond.
MEK is one of the commonly used solvents for crack repair, and works by fusing the pieces together. Perhaps it's the MEK, and not the glue that's doing the work for you. I use a different solvent for repair (available in the US only with a Federal EIN), and find that the repaires are extremely strong. No sleeve needed if the section is prepared properly.
extrafine
Jun 21 2008, 01:23 PM
I can speak for Ron's skills - he once fixed the cap of one of my Balances that prior to his attention looked like it had no hope whatsoever.
I once (personally) fixed a radial crack just below the barrel threads of a Wahl-Eversharp Skyline (it had broken clear off, actually). Now, before I say anything else, I'll take care to specify that this pen was in OTHERWISE horrible condition that made it unworthy of anything beyond user-grade, hence my being willing to experiment with it - paying for professional work on it wouldn't make sense. Anyway... I used acetone, which I applied with a small metal stick, and held the pieces together after for a day with a rubber band.
The end result:
- The acetone dripped a little where it shouldn't have, doing some minor cosmetic damage on the outside of the cracked area. Nothing that couldn't be fixed in the style of a scratch repair, but I'm mentioning it as a caution to one more of the many pitfalls of non-pro repairs.
- Amazingly, the barrel holds together very well! I occasionally write with the pen, and in so doing, the repaired area is directly stressed... but so far it holds.
The reason it works, AFAIK, is because it dissolves the plastic and makes it one solid piece again. Glue would rely on adhesive properties, and I don't think it would be strong enough.
jicaino
Jun 21 2008, 08:06 PM
I don't know what kind of cianocrilate (sorry if I didn't type right, it's hard for me to translate the chemicals to english! ) are you buying for super glue. The CA I use is german made and once it reacts with the water it's waterproof. I've done extensive research on this type of adehesives because I use them to stabilize cracks in wooden clarinets and I have repaired clarinets with no pinning whatsoever that has been holding fine for over 15 years (I check on them periodically so I can be sure of what I'm saying) another fine glue for this kind of thing is UV cured CA's wich also comes in different visosities. Also every ketons even the purest lab quality, and MEK ain't exception to this rule, contains a certain amount of water. In this case the keton softens the material presumibly allowing for a finer alignment in the repair and the CA bonds and covers the small microchipping, once you resurface it it would be almost unnoticeable to the naked eye and most people with a good eye and good magnifier can't really tell where the crack is if they didn't see the unrepaired barrel. Other than this minor "discrepancy" I agree upon the sleeving being not neccesary. I sleeve those pens wich I know are going to see heavy everyday use and pocket/hand overstress (heavy handed writers, people that carries their pens on such ways that I might consider they could be pushing them a little too far, etc)
Another fine solven for fusing celluloid, other plastics and even acrylics is clorophorm (old anaesthesic, govnmt controlled also down here, I believe long prohibited up there because vapors are known to cause liver cancer among other serious health conditions)
the big con in using solvents to fuse them parts is that they tend to ligthen the color around the edges.
extrafine
Jun 21 2008, 11:21 PM
^ Interesting. I was guessing that maybe there was something in the CA adhesive that also dissolved the celluloid.
This sounds better than any CA that I've come across - do you have a brand name? Not sure I'd want to try it for cracks if at all avoidable, but there are definitely other things where I'd like to give it a go.
Thanks.
Ron Z
Jun 21 2008, 11:47 PM
QUOTE(jicaino @ Jun 21 2008, 04:06 PM) [snapback]647046[/snapback]
The CA I use is german made and once it reacts with the water it's waterproof.
I'd be interested in hearing what type of CA this is, and who the manufacturer is. A CA that is that stable in a wet environment would be
interesting quite useful.
QUOTE
the big con in using solvents to fuse them parts is that they tend to ligthen the color around the edges.
Quite the contrary! Use the right solvent and the right technique, and the crack can not be found at all! I have several many examples out in the market where you can NOT see the repair, including the lapis blue Wahl that David Isaacson posted last week, and a black and pearl Balance that had a hole in the top. Gone. Ask SMG about that one!
extrafine
Jun 22 2008, 01:48 AM
QUOTE(Ron Z @ Jun 21 2008, 07:47 PM) [snapback]647231[/snapback]
Quite the contrary! Use the right solvent and the right technique, and the crack can not be found at all! I have several many examples out in the market where you can NOT see the repair, including the lapis blue Wahl that David Isaacson posted last week, and a black and pearl Balance that had a hole in the top. Gone. Ask SMG about that one!
Or ask me, about my Balance with the cracked-up cap that no longer is... can't be seen, I was amazed at the job you did on it. It's what encouraged me to try on crappy pens - while my results aren't as aesthetically pleasing, I've been pleased with the usability.
jicaino: you're the only one I know who has used chloroform - is it any better than acetone in your experience? I'd feel safe enough messing with it in a fume hood, but this only seems worth the hassle if it's significantly better than acetone.
FarmBoy
Jun 22 2008, 02:23 AM
QUOTE(Ron Z @ Jun 21 2008, 05:35 AM) [snapback]646717[/snapback]
MEK is one of the commonly used solvents for crack repair, and works by fusing the pieces together. Perhaps it's the MEK, and not the glue that's doing the work for you. I use a different solvent for repair (available in the US only with a Federal EIN), and find that the repaires are extremely strong. No sleeve needed if the section is prepared properly.
Ron,
What is an EIN?
I can guess but I'm intrigued. I can also guess the solvents used but that is sort of a trade secret....
Todd the Chemist.
SMG
Jun 22 2008, 03:03 AM
Dude, I have read the MSDS on the stuff that Ron is talking about. I am seriously considering getting some, but it is WAY SUPER FREAKING NASTY STUFF. Acetone looks like chocolate milk compared to this.
BTW I did look very closely (10x power loupe) at the pen Ron was talking about. I actually though that he and David were pulling my leg, that there never was a chunk missing from that pearl and black balance. Same with the Wahl, I could only guess as to where the crack had been, and actually I was wrong. The repairs that Ron is doing are seamless, invisible and frankly amazing. I can only hope to get that good.
Cheers,
Sean
OnPoint
Jun 22 2008, 03:16 AM
EIN = Employer Identification Number, the US federal taxpayer number for businesses
FarmBoy
Jun 22 2008, 03:53 AM
QUOTE(SMG @ Jun 21 2008, 08:03 PM) [snapback]647408[/snapback]
Dude, I have read the MSDS on the stuff that Ron is talking about. I am seriously considering getting some, but it is WAY SUPER FREAKING NASTY STUFF. Acetone looks like chocolate milk compared to this.
BTW I did look very closely (10x power loupe) at the pen Ron was talking about. I actually though that he and David were pulling my leg, that there never was a chunk missing from that pearl and black balance. Same with the Wahl, I could only guess as to where the crack had been, and actually I was wrong. The repairs that Ron is doing are seamless, invisible and frankly amazing. I can only hope to get that good.
Cheers,
Sean
Sean,
I'm a chemist so I'm not so freaked out about chemicals. That others are is a good thing, it keeps us employed. The folks I worry about are the biologists down the hall working on live virus cells...oh wait, that would be my wife...I'm going to wash my hands now, perhaps in acetone or benzene or ???
I guess when you have a chemistry lab at a University you don't need an EIN to order tanks of almost anything you want. I do have a DEA permit and a DOE permit and a permit to handle radio-isotopes along with a few other things. I suppose it can be some what difficult to get some things I consider common.
Thanks,
Todd
extrafine
Jun 22 2008, 04:45 AM
QUOTE(SMG @ Jun 21 2008, 11:03 PM) [snapback]647408[/snapback]
Dude, I have read the MSDS on the stuff that Ron is talking about. I am seriously considering getting some, but it is WAY SUPER FREAKING NASTY STUFF. Acetone looks like chocolate milk compared to this.
When I worked in a lab, I came across a bottle of Sodium Chloride (lab grade) with a nasty MSDS-style label on it. Claimed it to be potentially carcinogenic. I really cut back on the salt at lunch that day...
After that point, I got REALLY freaked out, because we don't know what's really dangerous any more and what isn't. Finding a 30 year old bottle of something with a warning on it, you know it's sure to be dangerous, but the modern bottles ALL sound nasty. Now, I imagine Ron's stuff is dangerous because *he* says so, but I'll bet that the MSDS for acetone probably looks similar, yet it's sold as nail polish remover (with a bit of (Potty Mouth) added)...
Just a side-rant.
jicaino
Jun 22 2008, 04:59 AM
I do think that clorophorm is worth the extra risk. The only "plastic" wich isn't "convinced" by clorophorm or other solvents is HR. Not sure of what kind of specific formula Ron's talking about but be aware that clorophorm does lighten the edges slightly if you don't master it. This of course can be used for your benefit: clorophorm fumes if not applied directly can reduce the color darkening that's so typicall in some delicate colors such as jades, true blues, etc. It's risky to work with but no worse than your average "old school" chemicals... I don't like "enviromental safe" materials if they're not actually better than the real thing. Of course I don't pour acids down the drain or such but any restoration I perform (may that be on pens, musical instruments, whatever) has a mixture between old school techniques, modern improved techniques, and minimized enviromental pollution.
CA I use is imported in bulk containers and given the commercial fancy brand name "powerlock". They also produce (as in the german company from wich my source gets the bulk stuff) a modified vynil cement wich cures acid and solvents resistant and is heath sensitive, so is a perfect replacement for shellac especially on P51 hood sealing, vac section sealing, etc. I don't use it for latex sacs but I do use it for silicone sacs with greater success than my own shellac mix wich I have to say I used to love until I tried this stuff. The local importer names this hi-tech vynil adehesive "power mix". It can be washed with water the first 30 seconds, it can be dissolved with rubbing or more complex alcohols, but once it cured, you can only attack it by heating it, then carefully scraping it off or wiping it with a clean cheesecake rag when still warm. Release temp is lower than shellac, wich makes it a treat to use on delicate pens.
My first wooden clarinet has been glued 20 years ago with Loctite 495 and so far... so good. It's a hairline crack that goes thru the higher tone hole in the upper joint of the instrument. This hole and that particular region sees a lot of stress, dimentional changes due to heat/cold cycles and such. The use of ketons as priming in deep cracks allows for the water contained in the keton to cure the CA deep down. If you don't prime it (actually this would be a catalyzer rather than a primer) it stays kind of "fresh" in the bottom and eventually the difference between hardness or molecular structure between the upper and lower coats of adehesive produces what you guys say: it peels or cracks again or simply "wears off". Another good way of producing more resitant bonds and fills with CA's is using some mineral load. Coloured ferrous oxide (ferrite) such as those used in some artistic masonry works like a charm. Use a good proportion of this steel or iron oxide dust and you've managed to get an almost perfect match for that missing chunk of Hard Rubber on your cherished pen. I've been repairing missing tipping from mouthpieces this way for years. No, it doesn't wears off or "dissolves" in saliva (you can't get worse than saliva for testing glues and fills and such! ) and holds perfectly fine if you don't drop that rare mouthpiece again.
UV cured glues, I shoot straight for Loctite. I strongly suspect that the german glue I'm using is UHU or whatever maker used to produce the UHU super glues.
extrafine
Jun 22 2008, 01:41 PM
jicaino - thank you for all the glue information, if I come across any of these, I'll buy some and try them out.
knewmans
Jun 22 2008, 09:51 PM
I remember my father used chloroform (before it was dangerous) to glue quite large perspex (lucite) assemblies. These were often clear and the joins were completely invisible through the full thickness of the material. The whole process took only moments.
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