The topic concerning schools no longer teaching cursive writing in the Chatter area has progressed to a discussion of how we were taught to write and what writing styles we were taught and now have...

I thought it would be interesting to compare our handwriting and see what we have learned (or forgotten) and/or how much we think we have changed...

I have written three sentences in the attached image... I would like you to use all or one of them for the comparison.... that way we are all doing the same work.
I wrote them at my normal speed... please try to do the same...

I was taught the Palmer method in Parochial school in NY in the 50's... I don't think my hand has changed all that much. With the exception of a few capital letters, I pretty much still write the way I was taught... one big exception is that my Q no longer looks like a 2.... in fact I was going over my daughters cursive book (Zaner-Bloser) and they now teach that the Q looks like a Q.... plus some other subtle differences...

OK so who is game for this little experiment.... This should prove interesting.

Good idea. I was never reallly taught writing at all, being a victim of trendy 70s teaching. My writing isn't pretty, but seems to be legible to most people.



Ray

*will resize it later, computer converting video, too much to start image editor at the same time

Let me defend myself by saying that I typically print, rather than use cursive. (If you couldn't guess by looking at this )

Though I can almost always read my own scrawl. (I can read things I've written in the dark, in a moving car, at faster-than-usual-speed. Though I did eventually recopy them so other people could make sense of them.)

I was taught cursive in 3rd grade, and used it for a whole year before I went back to printing.

Your handwriting reminds me of my 6th grade teacher. Are you left-handed?

This looks like fun! I'm going to do this when I get home

My awful awful handwriting .

Here are my scrawlies... taught with the Zaner-Bloser method in 3rd grade around 1984 (Hi Mrs. Eckstein!!)... I really liked learning handwriting at the time and did well, but my writing quality has gone down the last few years. Guess it's still legible though:

Here is my sample.

It just annoyed me so much when I wrote this because the nib was so bold. I usually like finer points.

The bottom few letters are the ways I was taught with on top, and the way I write them today. Does anyone know what method I was taught under?

Well, it's not great but here it is:

I do not remember practicing writing in school, much less any particular hand.

Since I am practicing an italic hand, I have included it in addition to my normal scrawl. Recorded just below each section of text is the time (Minute:Seconds) it took to write that section, not counting the pen and ink text. The italic took over twice as long to write as my normal speed, though it is also more than twice as legible. My italic hand still needs much more practice to obtain both consistency and speed. This italic exemplar has sacrificed much to increase speed a little.

I really have no idea what method I was taught other than it was in the early 80s and I believe it started with 2nd grade at which point cursive was required for everything we did through highschool.

Once in junior high we were required to use pen on everything except for math.

In highschool the teachers no longer cared what we used to take notes, as long as what we turned in was in cursive and with a pen (with the exception of my math and science classes where we still used pencils).



My style has varied a little since I first learned. I have lost many of the loops (I seem to like the tall spikey look) and I have broken away on many of my uppercase letters. I've never found an alternate T and F I liked so I tend to print them instead.

At the bottom of the image I do show how I was taught to write them.

For a very brief period in grade school I was able to master the lower case R but never had much luck with it overall.

Random

Here's my sample...written at normal speed. The top is a standard fine nib pen, while the bottom is a slightly stubbish nib pen.

TMann

I'm not even sure if I write it all right, but this is the script I learned at school.
Probably explains the lack of slant in my normal handwriting..

Here is my submission using my three basic hands: speed note taking (printing), chancery italic and copperplate. All are written fairly quickly without striving for perfection!

Not fair EdelmaK, you overachiever you! Now I'll never post my boring Palmerite cursive.

BTW, what pen/nib combo did you use in your exemplar? Those fine lines are so beautiful.

Thank you for your kind words.

I used one pen....the Danitrio raw ebonite Densho model. It has a flexi fine nib that I ground into an italic. The ink is Noodlers Black!

Kirk

Okay, no doubt about it, I want a snail from EDELMAK! *sheesh*

It would be my pleasure. My address is on the PT Snail List or contact me back channel.

Kirk

Holy! You can do THAT fairly "quickly"? Simply awsome!

Kev

Kev:

It's that wonderful pen you sold me!!

Kirk

whoa, nice handwriting Edelmak!

Rather makes me want to give up Beautiful!

Hey guys, remember that this isn't a contest! I love seeing the writing of Edelma, Antonios, James P. and others. It inspires me to keep working on improving my own writing.

TMann

No, it doesn't really make me want to give up. But I do want an italic nib or something. I can practice till the cows come home, but I think you must have to have an italic nib or something to be able to do that at speed

Another quick one with various inked ens on the table.

1. My usual writing I never understood why there is this snearing at printing in the US. To me legible handwriting of any kind is acceptable. Most of my writing is done with this hand.
2. My "copperplate"-like hand. This is mainly for pleasure.
3. A pseudo-italic hand. This is just to see whether I can do it.
4. A pseufo-uncial hand. Also to see if I can do it.
5. A byzantine hand - I have been "teaching" myself greek hands from the early and later byzantine years. This is an early one often found on eastern orthodox icons.

Here it is, but I'll not be responsible to any damage done to your eyes by looking upon something so hideous:


(Edit: wouldn't you know it - my scribble comes right after AntoniosZ's artwork! Also, image looks a little blotchy - bad scan, but you get the idea.)

I thought that you had a Sheaffer Calligraphy set? Those are italic nibs that they use in those. (Usually a fine, medium and broad.)

However, the copperplate writing that Edelma and Antonios do so well requires a different variety of pen. It requires a very flexible nibbed pen to get that beautiful line variation.

Good luck with the practicing!

TMann

EdelmaK and Antoniosz, how much practice did it take to be able to do those "fairly quickly"? EdelmaK, I love your sample. I can practice and practice, but what I do doesn't really feel natural.

Antonios - Very impressive work, as always. You continue to inspire me. BTW, I am working on my reply snail to you. I recently received your last letter and am very interested in your journaling. It is an area I need to improve!!!

Kirk

Thank you for your kind words!

First, I highly recommend getting a FP with a flexible nib. You can either go vintage or modern, although with modern pens, your choices are limited. I, myself, prefer a modern semi flex nib, like the Danitrio flexi nibs or Namiki Falcons. I also spend time - probably too much time - adjusting the nib to my hand and making the flexi nib italic which gives me some line width variation with or without pressure. This also reduces the surface area of the nib which contacts the paper and thus reduces the amount of ink that the pen lays down on the writing surface. The flexible nib topic is hotly debated by pen enthusiasts who know much more than I do, but my advice is to simply find something you like - modern or vintage.

I have also found the grip to be important as you need to hold the pen somewhat flatter to the paper than you probably normally do. There is a thread on this topic here on FPN. You will also hear alot about writing with your fingers versus your arm - also see threads on FPN. As far as my experience goes, the most important thing is to sit in a relaxed position - not too hunched - and grip the pen relatively lightly.

Finally - and most importantly - find styles that you like and try to copy them. This is impoirtant as you need to practice and by using this approach, you will eventually develop a hand that is probably a combination of those that you have found attractive. As such, it will be your own distinctive hand!!!

Good luck and keep writing!!!

Kirk

DOH! Yes, I do. Oops! Poor thing has gotten lost in my recent frenzy of FP acquisitions. Hmmm Flexi huh?

Carrie, I did not practice intentionally. A lot of it just happened. In my case, I learn by taking notes. If my notes are not clear, I do not learn . I did this during many years of school and university (I entered the elementary school in 1968 and I got my last degree in 1992 - no interruptions...). I had 2 years of heavy (10-15 hours of drawing per week) engineering drawing in 1981-82 (pre-autoCAD days) which enhanced my hand control. My job involves some writing. So although I do not have the artistic flair of Kirk, I have a decent control of my hand movements, enough to fake the artistry . So the true answer is that it does take practice...

Many times people ask me how to improve their writing - and I am not sure if my suggestions are authoritative but here they are.

To begin with have someone to examine your writing (some people are too hard on themselves). If a "true problem" is recognized then perhaps a practice regiment can help. The most important part of improvement is usually accomplished by slowing down, and increasing the size of the letters. Usually this suffices.

The next step is to improve legibility by avoiding connecting letters in such a way that they are unreadable. Make sure that the letter forms are complete and not rushed.

To me whether you do printing or italic or "cursive"/copperplate-like is not relevant. Readability is the most important first step. My guess is that italic writing is better in improving readability without sacrifice of speed.

With respect to what pens to use, I believe that the most "capable" pens/nibs should not be used for improvement. Initially a plain, reliable nib is enough. You should not have to think about holding the pen in the right way - this should come later. In fact I believe that one should use a broad good flow nib to begin with - one with no scratching, not flow problems that detract attention. Then one can move to a medium/fine, and a stub

Graduating to an italic and then a flex are almost natural after certain level of hand control is achieved (yes muscles are trained . At this point a good nib and an understanding of the "technique" helps. Consistency and artistic flurishes come much later. One should strive to improve graduate but continuously rather in large spectacular steps.

Finally, although I do not believe in graphology there is no doubt that the emotional state of a person affects handwriting. When I am tired, upset, over-caffeinated or sleep deprived, the effect on the quality of handwriting is direct and quite detrimental. On the other hand once you start achieving certain level of ability, you can use calligraphy to lead your mind into a more relaxed state.


PS> Some people discuss the issue of speed. So I did some experiments. I wrote the alphabet fast but legibly and took time couple of times each.
Printing: 14 secs; cursive: 17 secs; Copperplatish: 25 secs; Italic: 13 secs . As expected - although some people claim that cursive is faster than printing - which I doubt.

HOLD ON HERE .... You mean to tell me that there is a something other than those states out there...
Where do I find them... I don't think I could adjust to not being over-caffeinated.

My handwriting speed for cursive and printing is about the same. For short peroids of time, printing is faster, but I find it tires my hand quickly, I find it's easier to write cursive for longer periods of time.

Shaun

That gave me a little laugh, my uncle is a retired architect and still does a lot of drawing because it's something he's always enjoyed. He still firmly believes that we're in "pre-CAD" days

Miss-post, sorry.

dear EdelmaK .... just saw yr post ....

....cowabunga ... !

.... inspiring ...! I hope to be able write like that one day ....

I've looked in my attic to find an example of what handwriting I was taught. Very sorry sorry to say I didn't find any sample. <_<

I know it was a lot more readable, but also quite strict. The sample CorienB posted comes quite close.

Well, I don´t know either what exactly I was taught...whatever they taught in Austrian elementary schools in the beginning of the 90s. But my handwriting has gone through some changes since then...

I´ve written quite fast, at my usual note taking speed I´d say, it looks a bit better when I write more slowly.

Here's a few examples of my handwriting, described by a teacher as "untidy but surprisingly legible". It's deteriorated over the years, probably due to typing more than I write on most days.

I'm not interested in investing the time to learn italic or some other calligraphic style, but if anyone has any tips on improving legibility, I'd be interested to hear them.

Another example

I really am going to have to visit my Mother to get a book I have there, and scan some of the pages. Won't be until next month though, sorry.

You'll love the handwriting. But more so, the development of the handwriting.

My grandfather was Chairman of the Funeral Directors Association of Yorkshire. He sold his business before I could inherit it (!) - being the eldest grandson - but I/we still have a lot of the paperwork that relates to it.

In particular there is one notebook that was used for minutes of the Board meetings. It spans if I remember about 60 years of the organisation.

Consequently it shows handwriting from the 1920s in a beautiful precise copperplate, through a more utilitarian style in the 40s and 50s (still using fountain pens), to the scrawl of ballpoint in the 1970s.

Its part of a great collection that dates back to the early 19th century when my Grandad's business was formed, including lots of stories that were collated from the very begining.

- Mark

I always end up recommending this website, because it helped me. People who have seen this twenty times already may be excused from the remainder of the message.
briem.ismennt.is shows a simple italic style (NOT calligraphy, just writing) that has a short learning curve and no nonsense. It isn't the prettiest thing, but it's been a big improvement over what I used to do.

I love that site, as it happens.