I'm a lefty side/overwriter. I want to improve my writing, and in the process become an underwriter too. Basic improvement is what I'm mostly seeking. However, I love the look of Chancery and Cursive italic and would love to be able to write in that general style. Is this possible?

The link below takes you to photos of how I hold my fountain pens when I write and a sample of my writing. The initial purpose for these photos and writing scan was to order a stub nib, so please ignore the content in the writing sample.

Where do I start and how do I proceed. Any help would be most appreciated.
Sample writing and hand writing position photos


Michael

There is a wealth of information in, or linked from, the Pinned topics at the head of this forum section.

I would say read, try, read and try. Take everything with a pinch of salt - some things you will read are
baseless folklore. What works for you is an important factor.

Some things you try may seem unnatural and uncomfortable - that doesn't necessarily mean they are
wrong - there may be 20? 30? years of habit and perhaps well-intentioned misteaching to overcome or
relearn.

My immediate suggestion is to spin your writing pad by 60 degrees clockwise. I think you have it so that
the diagonal from top right to bottom left points at your chest? If you position it so that the other diagonal
(top left to bottom right) points at your heart, then your writing hand will naturally fall 'below' the
writing line, and the pen will be in a configuration similar to that used by a right-hander. As a result
you may find at first that you can't 'write' but have to 'draw' each letter.

Inkidentally, you (and I) are in good company. Whereas the occurence of lefthandedness in the
general population is in the range 7-14% [figures vary], 32% of the respondents to the poll in
this forum declare themselves to be lefties.


I hope this will be but the first of several replies, and that better informed coaches and gurus will
be along to help soon.

Deejay,

Thank you very much for the reply. Last night I searched the sight for how to improve my handwriting (for lefties). I perused all of the material I could fine. Most of it was aimed at right hand writers. The adage, "just do the opposite" I learned doesn't apply to left hand writers. Unlike swinging a bat or learning the triple jump, left hand writing doesn't abide by the "opposite" approach - so I learned. Consequently, I'm a little leery of buying a handwriting book who's primary audience is right hand writers. I may not be able to create right slanting letters. Mine might be more upright or left slanting. Is it a good idea to trace and practice letters made for right hand writers? I don't necessarily want to create my own style of writing, but I want to learn with left handedness in mind. DeeJay's suggestion to turn the paper 60 degrees is good advice I believe, one that I need to learn - that is unless I want to write in mirror image or write in a language that's right-brain hemispheric.

Hi Michael,

I'm a lefty side/overwriter, too. I don't hook my wrist, and it doesn't look as though you do either, but I do approach the writing line from above. You will likely have a more difficult time with Chancery italic if you become an underwriter, as it isn't natural to an underwriter's hand position--but that's not to say that you can't find a way around it. Underwriters are a natural for Copperplate & Spencerian though.

Regarding Chancery script, unslanted is OK. As an overwriter your ductus (direction & sequence of strokes) will be different than that of a right handed person. When you look at exemplars in instruction books that, as you said, are intended for right handers, what you want to bear in mind is that the goal is getting your letters to look like the exemplar...And you will need to come up with your own way to form the letters correctly. Tracing for awhile to get the feel of how you have to hold the pen in order to get the thick and thin strokes in the right place won't hurt anything. You might want to trace a letter, then try to duplicate it without tracing. Be sure to study and dplicate the shape of the white space inside of letters that have them, too.

I can't comment on slanting the paper because I write with mine straight in front of me.

Best, Ann

Ann,

Thank you very much for your reply. For the past two days I've tried to write with my paper slanted and my hand below the writing line. It feels so awkward and my letters tend to slant severely to the left. It's interesting to hear that Chancery italic is better suited to side/overwriters than a lefty underwriter. Perhaps I should stay with my current hand position and just work on penmanship. I suppose I should buy a penmanship book or two and start tracing and duplicating exemplar letters.

Michael

Ann,

I've been perusing your Chancery Italic Script Instructions and practicing a few letters with my Mont Blanc 149 pen with a medium nib - my thickest lined pen. One problem I have with my writing is that I write using finger movement rather than arm movement. I think a large nibbed pen would force me to use arm movement in my writing. Ideally, a paint brush on lined canvas would be ideal, but I'd rather stick with pens. Also, none of my current pens have italic nibs. I suppose this isn't necessary, but it would help with aesthetic appeal when practicing. Therefore, should I consider buying a calligraphy dip pen? Can I used use regular fountain pen ink with dip pens? Do dip pens offer italic nibs?

So far all I've done is the letter "a". And already I can see improvement in my writing. Perhaps I should head on down to Meininger's this afternoon for a dip pen.

One more thing . . . I'm creating my own lined paper using Scribbler's line generator. I'm a little unsure how to match the line height with the nib width? Should the five 45 degree diagonal dots touch one another between the horizontal lines? And how does one determine dot size. I can make small and large diameter dots with my pen depending how long I hold pen to a paper (feathering).

Michael

On second consideration, instead of a dip pen I'm thinking of ordering an italic nib for one of my existing pens. Lamy Safari specialty nibs seems to be stubs, an ok option for line width variation. I could have a cursive italic ground for $15 at Pendemonium. Then I noticed existing specialty nibs at Pendemonium such as the 0.9mm cursive italic for a Vanishing Point pen; I have a VP. The price is $40. Also for $40 is an M200 Pelikan 0.8mm cursive italic nib; I also have a M400 Pelikan - the nib will fit, albeit the Pelikan is a steel nib vs. the gold nib on the VP. And then I remembered Richard Binder sells speciality nibs for the VP and Pelikan too. His 0.9mm cursive italic VP nib is $65. So which nib should I buy? Are Binder nibs better than Pendemonium ground nibs? Is the $25 extra for the Binder nib worth it? And for my primary purpose - to learn and write Chancery Italic - is a cursive italic the best option? Would a crisp italic be better? Since I'm learning and going very slowly drawing each letter, is it best to use the least forgiving nib and learn it the right way? Or will this approach lead to total frustration? Also, for learning, is a 0.9mm italic nib better than a 0.7mm italic?

Yes. I could learn with my existing round nibs, and this is what I'm doing now. However, even with the best technique I won't have line variations with a round nib. I think part of the fun and learning bliss will come when I see my writing match the exemplar writing - and this includes line variation.

Your thought and recommendation would greatly be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Michael

Yet one more option is a $50 steel Pelikan nib from Richard Binder. A 1.1mm nib can be purchased with this option.

Michael,

Since your purpose it to improve your handwriting rather than to become a professional calligrapher, you will likely find it easier to use a fountain pen. One thing you need to know if you're thinking of getting an italic nib from Pendemonium or from Richard. They measure differently. Richard's 0.9 mm is the width of the line made with the nib (which is what I was used to.) Pendemonium's 0.9 mm is the width of the nib itself, which will give you a much thinner line width on paper, so you have to allow for this. I've always ordered the sharp rather than cursive italic nibs, but I can't say which you'd like. You may want to begin with the Lamy with a 1.1 nib and see how you do with that before you get a more expensive nib.

With regard to determining the x height of your letters, remember, you hold your pen perfectly horizontal and move it just enough to make the little square. There should be no space between each of the 5 little squares--which are representative of the nib's width (if there was space between you'd have more than 5 nib widths by the time you finished making the last square.) Do not use paper that your ink will feather on. This will not only throw you off on determining your nib width, it would not be good to practice on--your letters would be distorted with the feathering.

Hope this helps!
Ann