As best I've been able to tell, "cheap" fountain can write perfectly well. So is it purely the look of the pen that commands the steep prices? I have to admit, I see some really nice looking pens in ads, and then the price is always north of $300. Is there anything else besides appearance, to justify those prices?

Not all $300+ pens are automatically better than $300- pens, but some really are. Factors include: Quality of the materials used. Gold nib -- not a better writing experience, necessarily, but it won't pit, which steel will do if used with corrosive inks. Quality of manufacture. Innovative design. "Interesting" fillers (e.g., Visconti Power Filler or Visconti and Stipula crescents).

As far as the gold nib goes, aren't you getting that with the Namiki FP, or even Hero? (I think they said my $29 Hero 187 has a 12 kt gold nib.) If not the writing experience, any other benefit to 18kt or 21 kt gold over lower kt gold?

I had a Hero for about 20 hours, but after I got it home and looked it over, I was annoyed by the fit and finish. It wrote OK - not great but very good for the price, but it annoyed me to have a $30 pen that looked worse on close examination than the 88 cent black uniball pens that I have laying about the house. The next day was the kicker: some of the metal plate flaked off while I was handling it. I took it back for exchange, but the one they offered in exchange also had visible defects. Then I asked to see the Parker 100 again, and that was the end of my Hero experience.

Maybe that seems nonsensical to you but for me, a $200 pen that I really like is better than a $30 pen that looks cheesier than an 88 cent pen. But I can understand someone thinking that $200 is a lot to pay just to have a pen look and feel great too. After all, that's what I was thinking the first day when I bought the Hero.

The Parker writes better too, but not 7 times better. It does look and feel at least 7 times better to me on close examination though, so I guess in this case it is mostly looks that "justify" the price. Also the Parker has a cap that snaps on while the Hero had a Parker 51-ish clutch ring but nothing in the cap to actually clutch it. That annoyed me too

What about the difference between a very well made $200 pen and something costing over $600?
In that realm I think we are talking more about exclusivity, such as use of expensive non-standard materials, a high level of artistry (maki-e for example), or limited production, more than quality of build or function. No criticism of expensive pens intended. In fact, the delights of an expensive pen unrelated to pure function can be considerable.
J

Do you recall which Hero model? I have a 187 that has a brown, marbled, matte finish, and is actually quite nice. I agree the cap fit is sort of cheesy. I think what I find is that every pen has positives and negatives, and I guess I"m waiting to throw down big bucks if I can ever find one without many negatives! My most expensive, about $150, is an Aurora that looks great and writes nicely, but I actually like how my $60 Sensa writes better, it's just too heavy of a pen for the pocket!

There's a big difference between expensive and value for money. Luckily for pen manufacturers everyone has a different opinion on this subject!

Martin

Why are there $200,000 Lamborghini's and Ferraris when you can drive around in a $10,000 Hyundai? Or better yet why not just buy a $500 used Pinto?

I expect ANY fountain pen costing more than $40 to write flawlessly, which is why I have returned so many $100+ pens for service or refund.

BUT, there is a quality of built, materials, function, durability, and appearance that I am willing to pay extra for.

If you are happy with $30- Heros, then you should be a happy person. You'll be able to satisfy you writing desires very cheaply. I have one Hero. Won on eBay. Writes like garbage. Is a great dust collector because it never moves out of the pen jar it has been stuck into.

They were Hero 100s (Parker 51 clones).

I recently picked up a Parker 51 at a flea market. It has a lot of little nicks and scratches much like the Heros I tried but on an emotional level, those scratches are more acceptable to me since they are the result of 60 years of use instead of factory fresh.

Of course, anything from China is likely to provide much more bang for the buck than anything made in the US or Europe. I find myself arguing with myself sometimes as to whether I should allow for that and buy the product that pays someone a reasonable wage. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.

Hi,

Some pens, like Omas pens, are handmade. Others, like my $$$ Sailor are made of expensive materials. (The Sailor, if you are wondering, it made completely out of barleycorned sterling silver. I use it a lot, so it is not money lost. )

Dillon

I would say it is the exact same thing that with automobiles. Sometimes a big tag is explained by better engine, performance and finish, sometimes you pay for the brand name, and other times, for both

There is also a lot said about the fact that vintage pens can be had for lower prices and better quality than those 300 dollar plus pens!

Well, didn't they have safety problems---ie. the fuel tank rupturing during minor (rear) collisions?

But yes, the analogy is quite apropos re: cost vs. what you get. I am very annoyed when a $30-40+ pen fails to function properly. We all know about the oils left over during the manufacturing process which can impede the flow of ink to the nib...but beyond mere rinsing in slightly soapy water, I don't think I should have to send a brand new pen to a nibmeister to get it to work....or send it back to the company (unless they are willing to pay for shipping and insurance both ways and fix it for free---which I doubt ). I know Richard Binder tests the pens he sells before he sends them out (unless customers request otherwise)...and I think that is a great thing!

It's good to read about the pros and cons of various pen models on boards such as FPN and Pentrace et al. before putting a lot of money into a pen purchase. Brick and mortar (store) sales people can be very knowledgeable, but the pooled experiences of pen users on pen boards is invaluable, IMHO....

Yes, but at one point Lamborghini stopped selling to people who weren't "known to the factory" because a lot of the people who where buying them had never driven an over-steering mid-engined car before and were crashing them. These cars have a tendency to turn more if you take you hand off the wheel and accelerate, rather than straightening out like most cars do. That takes some re-learning.

Kind of like a fountain pen in a ballpoint world

Yeah, I have to remind my husband "Don't press too hard!" when he picks up a fountain pen

I'm interested to hear what you mean in terms of how you buy an expensive pen. If you rely on what you read, you won't know how the pen feels. If you go to a store, they tend to be top dollar, and I don't like to abuse the sales folks by spending tons of time trying out pens, and then ordering if off the web!

Well, it's pretty simple, actually. When I go to a store, I only ask to see one or two pens, max. I've worked in retail for 17+ years so I know how busy salespeople can be. I pick up a pen, and only if I like the way it feels I ask if I may ink it. I have bought many pens in B&M stores in the past and will continue to do so, because I want to financially support them. I do however want to read about a pen before I bug the salespeople about it, thus my addiction to the Internet pen boards

It's foolish to think a $5-15 Hero 329 (or even a Vector or a Reflex) will perform as well as a $125-150 Parker 100, any more than a $5 Sheaffer School Pen will be better than a $150 Sheaffer Legacy 2.

You generally get what you pay for with fountain pens. The Heros I have are by and large decent pens, but they do not compare in terms of fit and finish to a vintage Parker 51 or 61 or a new 100 any more than a Toyota Echo compares to a Lincoln Town Car.

Any pen that's in the $100-$200 range is going to be better built, have a better nib and be more reliable than a $10 pen.

Sure, there are exceptions to this. Esties remain the best inexpensive pen ever made. They are reliable, durable and nicely designed. They're great pens to write with. But as good as they are, the Balances and Vacs and Skylines and Snorkels that were the contemporaries of the Dollar and J Esties were and remain better pens. People who own Esties alongside Sheaffers, Parkers and Eversharps know this.

Price isn't the sole determination of a great pen. But it stands to reason that in most cases, the $100 pen is going be better than the $10 pen.

Most of my modern pens were bought online, but my most expensive modern pens were bought in B&M stores. That's because I want the extra security that a B&M provides for a big ticket item: the ability to test the pen in hand and to dip the nib and write with it on my stationery, a grace period for a refund if needed, and the ability to walk back and exchange the pen for another if needed. I am willing to pay extra for this security and to avoid the hassle and cost of mailing back problem pens, but i've also found big discounts at B&M stores.
J

I have always maintained that MOST of the time you get what you pay for.But sometimes that is not the case as many have noted.I have a $50 pen that writes better than the $350 model. The gold nib on the expensive model writes worse than the steel nib on the less expensive model. I figure (and this has been voiced already) that if i like it,i will pay for it. Supply and demand. Those that don't want to pay the high price force the manufacturers to produce fewer pens.

Simple economics.

Jim

The other factor to consider when discussing a fountain pen's performance and value is that there can be a big difference in how "tuned" a particular pen's nib is. An inexpensive pen can have a perfectly adjusted nib, and an expensive pen can have perfectly awful nib. So it isn't terribly surprising that there are $30 pens that write beautifully, and $300 pens that write poorly, (at least out of the box.) Hopefully, you'll have better service with the $300 pen, but that's not necessarily a given.

As an example of this issue, I have to admit that my best writing pen, ie. the pen that never skips, writes smoothly, and a size/shape that works well for my hand...is my Waterman Phileas. It pains me to say this, because my collection currently includes very nice pens from Pelikan, Cross, and Parker. But if I was going to sit down tonight and write the Great American Novel, I'd grab my $30 Phileas.

Weird...

TMann

Hooray for the Waterman Phileas!!! Thats the pen I was talking about as one of my best writers!! imagine a sub$30 pen that writes this well. Mine is a green Phileas that writes a rather wet line. A favorite for my everyday work pen.

Jim

.a

Which Visconti models come w/ the double-reservoir power-fill? This looks interesting... Can you retro-fit a C/C Visconti pen w/ the power-fill system?



Maja-

Where do you do your B&M Pen shopping in Vancouver? I'd like to visit a shop next time I go up.

The powerfiller both single and double tank come in several different pens by Visconti: Manhattans, Anniversary, Titanic, NATO and a few others. The filler is an integral filler meaning that like a sac or piston it's built into the pen. I've had a Manhattan and a yet to be inked Titanic and can say that it holds a bunch of ink.

Kurt H

Thanks Kurt! It seems as if the Double-Reservoir Power Fillers tend to be on the high-end Visconti models... It may be a while before I can afford one

How's New Orleans' recovery efforts coming along? I grew up in Metairie (Grace King High School) and still have a soft-spot for my hometown.

i would never judge someone for buying a $300+ pen. To me, it's all about what you get out of it. I personally don't spend more than $130 (thus far!) and even that is something I ponder long and hard. I don't want to know how much hubby spent on my Townsend but I"m guessing it wasn't cheap given he got the 18K nib. I could look it up because I saw the box it came in and no the website. But that would sort of spoil the fun for me.

Anyway - i have some $40 pens that perform better than any $100+ pen. Then I have some $100+ pens (gifts and a couple that I purchased) that are both stunning in looks and outstanding performers so that cost was worth it to me (and presumably to the gift-givers).

There may be a time when I feel comfortable "investing" in a maki-e or urushi (if they were smaller!) or some vintage pen I've dreamed of for a long time (burgundy Wahl Doric) but that will have to come only if I have really scrimped and saved or if i luck into some disposable $.

Hero's are fine for what they do. I do not agree it's more bang for the buck. I think a $15 Lamy Vista is far superior to a $5 Hero and that's not a big price difference in the long run. And if you don't use a pen, no matter how little you paid for it (or how much) it's hard for me to call it a "value" of any sort. (I'm excluding "collectors" in this discussion.)

so.... i guess my take is "to each their own" and the value you put in an object of any sort is what matters, whether it was $500 and writes like a $50 pen, or $1.50 and writes like a $40 pen (haven't seen that yet but...)

For $30 my pens would be vintage ones I've managed to find although I would add another $10 to that once restored. They are fabulous writers mostly. My vintage Conway Stewarts vary from $10 to $100. How about a 1930's Swan Eternal for $15 which I found. I tend to like older pens as the nibs are really flexible although I do find the body sizes are generally smaller than todays modern offerings.
I have some expensive vintage ones although they were still less than $300. My Sheaffer 1927 flattop Oversize I got for about $175 and has beautiful celluliod with a wonderful lifetime medium nib.
My Danitrio Takumi was much less than $300 and is as good as any megabuck pen I own. Also a Sheaffer Legacy with stub nib for $175 NOS.
Over $300 I have a Caran D'Ache Leman and a Pelikan M1000.

It's interesting to hear those with experience have such divergent experiences. Some find inexpensive pens great, others go by the "you get what you pay for" method. I guess I agree with KCAT that it will be a while to get one of those $300+. Part of the fun is experimenting with different pens at different prices, as I guess my own experience will help me decide what is worth what.