Hello everyone,

First time poster, long time reader. Last week I graduated from law school. I would like to commerate the event by purchasing a fine pen. My budget allows me to go up to around $500. This afternoon, I was at a pen store and really got to liking the Waterman Exception Night and Day Platinum in a Roller Ball (I know, this is fountainpen network). The sales person said that most lawyers purchase Ball Points, I thought that comment was interesting since i seem to prefer the Roller Ball. In particular I liked the smootheness and ease with which I was able to write. For whatever reason, the salesperson avoided fountain pens in their entirity.

Having said this, I'm curious what the experts here on this forum suggest with respect to (1)this particular pen, (2) Ball Point v. Roller Ball v. Fountain, and (3) any other pens that I should consider.

Thank you.

Not an expert, other than I have used all three versions in a Phileas.

As a confirmed FP user I purchased a Phileas roller ball at the same time as
my Phileas FP, for the same reasons you mentioned - ease of writing when
a FP wasn't suitable.

I also recently purchased a Phileas ball point only for when I was using
carbon-less copy paper and neither a roller ball nor a FP would work.

I don't know why anyone would choose to use a ball point if they had a choice.

Congrats on your achievement.

I got a MontBlanc ball point when I got out of law school. Then I came to this site to learn more about pens.

I bought a Lamy Safari the next week and I never looked back.

I used the MB ball point for about one day while studying for the Bar and after that it was all fountain pen all the time.

The Mont Blanc is sitting here in my pen cup. I don't think anyone uses it, because I sure don't!

But, if you MUST get a ball point, my advice is to get one that takes the Fisher Space Refill, that's what all my ball point pens have when I am not using them.

MDP, congrats on graduating from law school.

As for your choice of RB or BP, let me just say, the RB and BP pens are only as good as the 4.00 refill. So, while you can have all the glitz of a fancy pen, your fancy pen is controlled by the 4.00 refill. I am not saying this to discourage you, but when you ask which is better, you have to know it is the refill that makes the difference.

Fountain pens (and, there are so many attorneys who are FP collectors) are different because it is the nib that makes the difference. The nib is part of the pen, where the RB/BP refills are not.

Which RB/BP refills are better? Not sure, but I think I have heard good about Waerman and Schmidt.

If you decide to try FPs, start with a Lamy or a Waterman Phileas. Great pens, reasonably priced, and if you decide not to go with FPs, you will not have spent a ton of money.

Thank you all for your congratulatory comments. Unfortunately any time spent celebrating or endulging is made at the expense of studying for the Bar Exam... Ugh!

Your collective advice is exactly what I was looking for. Before I go any further, I'm going to insist on trying the FP's. Any ideas on what I should be looking for when evaluating FP's? I like to put alot of ink on paper so my guess would be the medium Nib, rather than the fine. (Though, my writing does tend to be on the smaller side.) My writing is always in print (never in script). Actually, the only time I write in script is my signature. Also, I think I would prefer a FP that is cartridge-capable based on practicality.

The Waterman Exception Night and Day still catches my eye and looks even better as a FP...

Thanks again!

Have a look at the Carenes. Lower price, take cartridges, write beautifully. I throw 2 in my purse, 2 in a brief case, keep a couple boxes of cartridges in a snack size zipper plastic bag. Easy to change, quick refills and virtually indestructible. You'll probably have trouble finding broad nibs, but they're lusciously wet. With smaller writing, the M nibs may suit. Expect a wet, easy-gliding nib from Watermans.

If you buy a Waterman Rollerball, they not only use Waterman refills, but also Aurora, Schmidt, and Pilot G2 refills. I agree that the pen will only be as good as the refill. On the other hand, if you like the look, weight, balance, and overall feel of the pen, I say go for it!

To try out if you like fountain pens at all, get a Waterman Phileas. For less than $50, (less than $25 if you get lucky) you can have an excellent FP experience.

If your handwriting is small, using a medium nib will create some challenges with leaving open space in the middle of enclosed letters such as a,d,b,e,g,o,p,q. That you print instead of use cursive should help somewhat but be aware that small letters are easier with a fine nib.

Once you decide you like fountain pens and are comfortable with a nib size, get yourself your graduation pen. Splurge, if you can, for a Waterman Edson. It is one of the most handsome and satisfying pens made. The nib is a marvel and it has some technology that resists burping up ink during atmospheric pressure changes during flight.

Suggested retail price is a bit north of your $500 limit but if you shop carefully you could probably land an Edson within your range. I own the ruby red Edson but the blue one is just stunning as well. It is a large pen, so be sure it fits comfortably in your hand. If you have a smaller hand, the Edson is not for you.

Let us know what you decide, and most importantly, congratulations on your graduation and good luck on the Bar exam!

Andy

Thanks again for the insight. I purchased a Red Phileas with Fine Nib for around $35 on Ebay coming France, can't wait until it arrives!

BTW, does anyone know how I could find out which Ball Point pens accept the readily available Fischer Space Refill?

And so the addiction begins...

Hello again everyone. Well, I've been using my new Phileas all day today. This pen has really gotten me into fountain pens (though if you've read my other post, I'm not comfortable enough to use it for the upcoming bar exam). I purchased one with a Fine Nib and I'm quite surprised at how much ink it puts down on paper. Is this normal for Waterman's? The medium Nib must be huge!

It's an overall nice pen for the price. I'm glad that the forum recommended it to me. At this point it doesn't make much sense for me to buy nice flashy pens that aren't fountain pens. I feel that big purchase coming on... Anyone care to make any other recommendations for something in the $500-600 ballpark? Waterman or not?

p.s. If there's one thing that I don't like about the Phileas is that it looks kind of cheap. I'm particularly annoyed by the gold ring towards the end cap which ends don't meet... Then again, for the $35 I paid, I can't complain...

Standard space pen refills fit Parker ballpoints (there's a little converter thingy comes with the refill). Fisher also make refills for both standard and selectip Cross ballpoints and there's a "universal" spacepen refill that fits most multipens such as the Cross Tech3 and the Lamy models.

Sorry - I don't know about Waterman - if anyone does I have a Carene ballpoint I wouldn't mind using with spacepen refills.

Availability is a bit of problem here in the UK though. If anyone knows of a source I'd be glad to hear of it.

======

GOTCHA!!

I like fast learners!


OK, here are some of my recommendations:

Yard-o-led
Parker Duofold
Namiki Sterling
Waterman Carene (I think Waterman may have a few left, but Ghost Plane raids the warehouse, so hurry ).
Pelikan M800


Except for the Yard-o, I stayed around the 300.00 range so you can put 100 on your Starbucks card, and have 50 for ink, and 50 for gas/bus/EL.

Visit a few pen sites:

www.oscarbraunpens.com
www.swisherpens.com
www.joonpens.com
www.pendemonium.com for stationery (WELL? you have to write on *something*!).


Also, check the for sale section here; Tony Byng/Dusty Bin is selling some great Watermans that are no longer in production (I already have most of them).




Edited, because they changed records.


HEY! Hurry up and get the Rhapsody FP while he still has it!

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=66209

I'm going to stick in a late oar-- if you're looking at spending Yard-O-Led money, you might look at some of the sites offering fully restored vintage pens as well. The refill time on most of the pre-1960 mechanisms is no greater than that involved in swapping out a cartridge, and the increased capacity means a morning fill-up is likely to last the whole day, becoming a guarantee if you top up over lunch. Most ink bottles will easily fit in a briefcase if you're really worried about running out in mid-stride. Vacuum fillers (mainly Sheaffer) and piston fillers (including modern Pelikans) are the best bets for capacity, and if you like way the Phileas point feels, you'll love vintage points. The old Sheaffer conical "Triumph" points are quite capable of multi-part forms, too.

Hello, and congratulations on surviving Law School. My own law school experience was a very long 27 years ago, and just being able to leave New Haven was reward enough. I'm glad that you're going to give yourself something a bit more substantial.

My own view is: keep your budget maximum in mind, but go and try out various pens until you find one you like the feel of, and then buy. If a cheaper Philéas feels better to you, go for it. And if you find that the pricier Exception feels better, then buy it.

Personally, I use a fountain pen in my practice. I use it to sign all briefs, documentation, and correspondence. I also use it with notes and other miscellany-- anything which goes out the door in my own hand. If you're looking for comfortable writing, I think you'll find there're few things like a fountain pen. And if -- like any good attorney -- you're looking to impress, there are fewer better ways to do so in writing than with a fountain pen. The choice, however, is yours in the end. I keep two fountain pens on my desk, a Waterman Charleston (chocolate ink) and a Waterman Carène (red ink).

I am not sure that I understand what credence to give to a sales person who says that "most lawyers purchase Ball Points." Seems to me you should use what makes you most comfortable.

Another concern: I tend to leave my fountain pens at the office. When I am in a hearing or at court, I use my Waterman Carène Ball Point. Just a bit easier and no worries about running out of, or leakage of, ink.

Best of luck.

For sub $50, the Waterman Philea is okay, but I think I agree that a fine nib might be preferable. My medium nib writes significantly bolder than the medium-nib Mont 146 I use at home. I've found that the Mont rollerballs write well, but be sure not to leave the cap off.

I think there must be some variation between the
fine nibs, at least among the Phileas.

My original blue is a fine that writes
like a medium and my newer green fine is
a true fine.

Congratulations on law school graduation, mdp0430!

First, I would be skeptical of the salesperson's statement that "most lawyers purchase ball points." Second, while there are undoubtedly many, many lawyers who do purchase ballpoint pens, I wouldn't worry too much about what "most lawyers" will do. You're the one who will (undoubtedly) be spending a lot of time with your new purchase. If you're going to use the pen for outlining, taking the bar, making notes, etc., then (in my opinion) comfort is a top priority. There are undoubtedly some excellent roller balls out there, but I have never found any pen that could compare to my FPs for comfort. I used a fountain pen all the way through law school, and I took lots and lots of notes. I have no doubt that I would have suffered serious hand cramps if I'd tried to do that with a Bic BP.

Oh, I just noticed that you got a Phileas. Guess I should have read the thread more carefully before posting. At any rate, the Phileas is, IMO, a good choice for an inexpensive pen. I've got one (yes, mine is a medium nib) & really like the way it writes. By the way, you might as well start looking into blue inks. I (& many other lawyers that I know) will only use blue ink for signatures, so that the originals can be easily differentiated from copies.

Good luck on the bar!