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mmb993
I've been into fountain pens a long time but just recently started fixing minor problems with a bunch of vintage pens I have been buying lately. Nothing fancy, ammonia baths and ultrasound cleaning and stuff like that. Suddenly I run across an incredible pen that has been in the family since the end of the 19th century. It's a Waterman Eyedropper exactly like the "Secretary" model in the following picture.

Click to view attachment

As soon as I got it, I started to clean about 75 years worth of crud with an ammonia solution. It took days to get all the stuff out but now its clean, but the black rubber turned brown. I know it's no big deal because I have read so many ways to get the color back that I have no doubt it can be done. I figure the best way is to send it to a professional restorer for a G-10 treatment (and I may do that anyway), but that wouldn't be any fun.

I have Frank Dubiel's "Da Book" and that is the reason I'm doing this post. He has a lot of suggestions for restoring the color but he gives so many of them I have no idea what to do. Among them:

1) Soaking in household bleach
2 )Soaking in a cleaner like Formula 409
3) Black Dyes
4) Soak in liquid black shoe polish
5) Rub with black shoe polish paste
6) Various hair dyes
7) 15 to 45 minutes in 409 followed by black shoe polish (may be the best result)
8) Paint the pen black
9) Toothpaste and if too dull follow up with a polish
10)Motor oil

I never imagined that there could be any problem in the world that could be resolved by either toothpaste, motor oil, shoe polish or hair dye!

As if there are not enough options, I also read about "Pensbury Manor Black Hard Rubber Pen Potion No.9 Black Hard Rubber Dye" which may be the best solution based on the testimonials. I don't know if there is a #8 or a # 10, but I'm considering using their "Great Knobs" product to restore the dashboard of some of my antique cars. In any case the guy is an FPN guy so that's to his favor.

My mother in law has been hiding this pen from me for over 30 years (she hates me) and finally broke down and gave it to my wife on mother's day. Before I fix it I want to show it to her in this ugly brown color and tell her it's ruined, but I have to make sure I can get it back to normal before she kills me.

So, you ladies and gentlemen of this greatest fountain pen community in cyberspace, what should I do?

-Mario
RussA
Pensbury works on some and doesn't on others. One key element of success with the potion is evenness of coverage, and on that pen, it will be next to impossible with the metalwork.
Richard
Unless you want to destroy it, DO NOT SOAK THE PEN IN 409, BLEACH, OR ANY OTHER DESTRUCTIVE SUBSTANCE OR ATTACK IT WITH TOOTHPASTE OR ANY OTHER ABRASIVE!

Pensbury's product is a good way to do the job if you are determined to do it yourself -- the results, if you're careful and patient. can be very nice.

The best way to do it, IMHO, is to have it done professionally by someone who uses Giovanni Abrate's G-10 process, which puts color back into the rubber instead of painting over it. DISCLAIMER: I am one of only two people who can do this; Giovanni is the other. The process is described here on my site.
Johnny Appleseed
And might I suggest that this is another reminder not to expose HR pens to lots of water to get them clean?

John
mmb993
QUOTE(Richard @ May 14 2008, 09:58 PM) [snapback]611256[/snapback]
Unless you want to destroy it, DO NOT SOAK THE PEN IN 409, BLEACH, OR ANY OTHER DESTRUCTIVE SUBSTANCE OR ATTACK IT WITH TOOTHPASTE OR ANY OTHER ABRASIVE!

Pensbury's product is a good way to do the job if you are determined to do it yourself -- the results, if you're careful and patient. can be very nice.

The best way to do it, IMHO, is to have it done professionally by someone who uses Giovanni Abrate's G-10 process, which puts color back into the rubber instead of painting over it. DISCLAIMER: I am one of only two people who can do this; Giovanni is the other. The process is described here on my site.


Richard,

This is one of the reasons I did the post. Frank Dubiel is a very respected source. I bought "da book" and was very surprised by what I read about this subject (page 94). 409 and toothpaste? Give me a break!

Is the Pensbury process reversible? If I don't like the end result, can you still do the G-10?

Thanks for your response and all your contributions to this forum. I love your website.

-Mario
mmb993
QUOTE(RussA @ May 14 2008, 09:03 PM) [snapback]611202[/snapback]
Pensbury works on some and doesn't on others. One key element of success with the potion is evenness of coverage, and on that pen, it will be next to impossible with the metalwork.


Russ,

I appreciate your response but I don't get it. My understanding is that I would soak the pen in the potion for some time. The potion does not affect the gold, just the rubber. If all the hard rubber surface is evenly exposed to the potion, Why would the metalwork cause it to fail?

-Mario
Richard
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 17 2008, 12:53 AM) [snapback]613550[/snapback]
Is the Pensbury process reversible? If I don't like the end result, can you still do the G-10?

Syd says that his potion can be removed, but I honestly don't know whether even a thorough cleaning will leave the rubber able to respond to G-10. My gut feel is that there could be tiny amounts of the potion left in the rubber's pores, sealing the surface against G-10. This would be an interesting experiment, but I don't think it should be done on a pen someone cares about.
mmb993
QUOTE(Richard @ May 17 2008, 08:06 AM) [snapback]613746[/snapback]
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 17 2008, 12:53 AM) [snapback]613550[/snapback]
Is the Pensbury process reversible? If I don't like the end result, can you still do the G-10?

Syd says that his potion can be removed, but I honestly don't know whether even a thorough cleaning will leave the rubber able to respond to G-10. My gut feel is that there could be tiny amounts of the potion left in the rubber's pores, sealing the surface against G-10. This would be an interesting experiment, but I don't think it should be done on a pen someone cares about.


How expensive is a G-10 treatment? How long before we get the pen back?

Thanks,

Mario
Richard
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 17 2008, 04:19 PM) [snapback]614240[/snapback]
How expensive is a G-10 treatment? How long before we get the pen back?

That info is all on the page I linked above.
RussA
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 16 2008, 08:57 PM) [snapback]613551[/snapback]
QUOTE(RussA @ May 14 2008, 09:03 PM) [snapback]611202[/snapback]
Pensbury works on some and doesn't on others. One key element of success with the potion is evenness of coverage, and on that pen, it will be next to impossible with the metalwork.


Russ,

I appreciate your response but I don't get it. My understanding is that I would soak the pen in the potion for some time. The potion does not affect the gold, just the rubber. If all the hard rubber surface is evenly exposed to the potion, Why would the metalwork cause it to fail?

-Mario

It is more like painting. You brush on Pensbury and let dry. Not all areas of the BHR take the color as well as some, and you find that you need to concentrate the application more on some areas than on other areas and blend areas for evenness, and there are brush strokes to even out as well.

david i
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 13 2008, 09:01 PM) [snapback]610317[/snapback]
I've been into fountain pens a long time but just recently started fixing minor problems with a bunch of vintage pens I have been buying lately. Nothing fancy, ammonia baths and ultrasound cleaning and stuff like that. Suddenly I run across an incredible pen that has been in the family since the end of the 19th century. It's a Waterman Eyedropper exactly like the "Secretary" model in the following picture.

Click to view attachment

As soon as I got it, I started to clean about 75 years worth of crud with an ammonia solution. It took days to get all the stuff out but now its clean, but the black rubber turned brown. I know it's no big deal because I have read so many ways to get the color back that I have no doubt it can be done. I figure the best way is to send it to a professional restorer for a G-10 treatment (and I may do that anyway), but that wouldn't be any fun.

I have Frank Dubiel's "Da Book" and that is the reason I'm doing this post. He has a lot of suggestions for restoring the color but he gives so many of them I have no idea what to do. Among them:

1) Soaking in household bleach
2 )Soaking in a cleaner like Formula 409
3) Black Dyes
4) Soak in liquid black shoe polish
5) Rub with black shoe polish paste
6) Various hair dyes
7) 15 to 45 minutes in 409 followed by black shoe polish (may be the best result)
8) Paint the pen black
9) Toothpaste and if too dull follow up with a polish
10)Motor oil

I never imagined that there could be any problem in the world that could be resolved by either toothpaste, motor oil, shoe polish or hair dye!

As if there are not enough options, I also read about "Pensbury Manor Black Hard Rubber Pen Potion No.9 Black Hard Rubber Dye" which may be the best solution based on the testimonials. I don't know if there is a #8 or a # 10, but I'm considering using their "Great Knobs" product to restore the dashboard of some of my antique cars. In any case the guy is an FPN guy so that's to his favor.

My mother in law has been hiding this pen from me for over 30 years (she hates me) and finally broke down and gave it to my wife on mother's day. Before I fix it I want to show it to her in this ugly brown color and tell her it's ruined, but I have to make sure I can get it back to normal before she kills me.

So, you ladies and gentlemen of this greatest fountain pen community in cyberspace, what should I do?

-Mario


Sigh, A couple-few hundred dollar pen and heirloom to boot and it is dropped in chemicals.

These are old and fragile. Go gentle or go pro, please.

d
mmb993
QUOTE(RussA @ May 18 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]615083[/snapback]
QUOTE(mmb993 @ May 16 2008, 08:57 PM) [snapback]613551[/snapback]
QUOTE(RussA @ May 14 2008, 09:03 PM) [snapback]611202[/snapback]
Pensbury works on some and doesn't on others. One key element of success with the potion is evenness of coverage, and on that pen, it will be next to impossible with the metalwork.


Russ,

I appreciate your response but I don't get it. My understanding is that I would soak the pen in the potion for some time. The potion does not affect the gold, just the rubber. If all the hard rubber surface is evenly exposed to the potion, Why would the metalwork cause it to fail?

-Mario

It is more like painting. You brush on Pensbury and let dry. Not all areas of the BHR take the color as well as some, and you find that you need to concentrate the application more on some areas than on other areas and blend areas for evenness, and there are brush strokes to even out as well.


Got it. Thanks for your response.

-Mario
Shangas
Mario, I would suggest sending the pen to Richard. A family heirloom is an important item not to be trifled with. Better leave it to the professionals, wait a while and get a top-notch finish that will last.
Ray-Vigo
I have used Pensbury Manor #9 on a BCHR pen. It works well if you follow the directions and take your time. I have a Mabie Todd on which it did a very nice job, especially considering how well it preserved the chasing and the imprint. It looks sharp all around.

That said, a pen like yours will be very difficult to treat with #9 because of the metal work present. I think that one is a job for a pro.
extrafine
It's a funny thing, but I personally sort of LIKE the brown look. I guess it's not authentic, or maybe is more authentic, or whatever - I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to MAKE it happen, but I tend to find that if it's that way, it's fine.

Just my 0.02.
mmb993
QUOTE(Shangas @ May 18 2008, 07:37 PM) [snapback]615330[/snapback]
Mario, I would suggest sending the pen to Richard. A family heirloom is an important item not to be trifled with. Better leave it to the professionals, wait a while and get a top-notch finish that will last.


I appreciate your response. The money is not an issue, it's the 17 week wait. I'll probably send it to him considering the reputation he enjoys in this forum.

-Mario
mmb993
QUOTE(extrafine @ May 19 2008, 11:15 PM) [snapback]616409[/snapback]
It's a funny thing, but I personally sort of LIKE the brown look. I guess it's not authentic, or maybe is more authentic, or whatever - I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to MAKE it happen, but I tend to find that if it's that way, it's fine.

Just my 0.02.


I'm OK with the brown too, but my wife wants it back the way it was. Her family is where it came from so it's her call. She almost used show polish on it yesterday before I wrestled it away from her. I probably need to send it to Richard before something happens!

-Mario
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