My question comes out of my experience with an Esterbrook 9550 nib in a JS pen but could just as easily apply to any of the rest of my pens because all of them do it to some extent, just some worse than others. My JS needs a new bladder so I can't feed it that way in order to compare line weights but it appears that a dipped pen produces a heavier line than a fed pen.

My 9550 nib is an irridium tipped nib and is supposed to be a super fine (xf) for "posting" according to the Esterbroo Nib charts but when dipped it writes exactly the same as my medium tipped ROtring Freeway and Sheaffer Fashion fed by their cartridges or converters. Is this normal and if so what does that mean when I test a pen at the pen store by dipping it. Am I really getting an accurate feel for how a tested pen writes? (so far I haven't had the guts to ask to dip a pen to try it out but assuming that I get the guts one day)

My ROtring, Sheaffer and Pentech pens show a similar tendency of heavier than normal line weight when dipped as well but to a lesser degree. I have tried several of my bottles of Private Reserve inks including Ebony Green, Copperburst and Blue Suede with identical conclusions.

Does anyone have any explanations or similar experiences?

Click to view attachment

A word of explanation, the copper/ brown is the medium point Freeway and the blue suede/ teal is the xf Esterbrook 9550

First of all...you've got excellent handwriting. Nice to see someone writing in Greek, too. Scholar?

You're right. In my opinion, unless you can figure out how to dip a nib ever so slightly so as to barely get any ink in it, you'll probably write a fatter line. I attribute this to the channels in the feed loading up with a whole lot more ink than they're used to when being fed. The one thing I've learned to do when I dip something, is to try and wipe it first on the inner rim of the glass. It tends to wick away some of the excess ink, while still leaving enough to get a sense of the line weight.

Did that make any sense?

It could be dependent on your technique when dipping. If you leave ink on the nib it will have a heavier stroke as ink from the whole surface of the nib tries to get in on the action. If you let ink run up into the feed, then lightly wipe the nib before writing you will probably have something closer to the performance when fed.

[quote name='System of Adam' date='May 13 2008, 02:12 PM' post='609423']
My question comes out of my experience with an Esterbrook 9550 nib in a JS pen but could just as easily apply to any of the rest of my pens because all of them do it to some extent, just some worse than others. My JS needs a new bladder so I can't feed it that way in order to compare line weights but it appears that a dipped pen produces a heavier line than a fed pen.

My 9550 nib is an irridium tipped nib and is supposed to be a super fine (xf) for "posting" according to the Esterbroo Nib charts but when dipped it writes exactly the same as my medium tipped ROtring Freeway and Sheaffer Fashion fed by their cartridges or converters. Is this normal and if so what does that mean when I test a pen at the pen store by dipping it. Am I really getting an accurate feel for how a tested pen writes? (so far I haven't had the guts to ask to dip a pen to try it out but assuming that I get the guts one day)]

This is always my experience; a dipped nib has more ink in it than it's ever likely to receive via the feed from the barrel/converter/cartridge etc. (I'm sure someone will give you a technical explanation of what's going on). This is why I think dipping a pen in a pen store is almost a complete waste of time; you simply can't tell whether a pen that's wet and smooth when dipped will behave similarly when filled (dipping is only useful if the pen still feels scratchy or won't write when dipped - avoid such a pen!), let alone how good the ink flow is. You will only know how it really performs if you fill it, let the surplus ink drain from the feed, and wait a while before writing with it (or, if you use it immediately, also let it sit for a while and then try it again). Good luck finding a store that lets you do that!

Simon

Thanks for the compliment, as to the scholar thing... is there a modifier for scholar that isn't sexist but suggests "a little" like "scholarette" or "newb-scholar"...

My dip technique has been to get the feed into the ink at least half of it's length and then wipe the top of the nib on a blotter, then write. I guess I expected a certain amount of initial weight but then expected the line to dry out as it exhausted the ink left on the nib and had to pull from the collector. I will pay more attention to the way I dip though and see if it helps. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this phenomenon though...

I suggest proto-scholar!

It occurs to me that a pen writes wetter as it gets closer to being empty, because it's easier for the air to return to the feed/sac/cart with less ink to push out of the way. A pen with ink only in the feed would be the ultimate example of this, wouldn't it?

In the late 1950's, I was at the tail end of the last generation that learned to write with a fountain pen in primary school. My class learned with dip pens. I remember that we all had trouble with ink pooling horribly on the paper until we got the hang of dipping our pens. We were taught to dip the nib about half way into the ink, then to flick the nib slighty (wrist action) over the ink to get excess to fall back into the ink well. - Did that comment make sense? - It took practice, but we all got the idea eventually.

Because I did well with a pen in school my dad gave me a Parker "51" that he was not using. That level of pen was highly unusual for a kid to have, and I was asked to use it exclusively at home. The first thing I noticed with a "real" pen was that the ink fed ever so smoothly and consistently onto paper, unlike the dip pen.

When dipping a pen to test a nib, I feel like I am back in grade school. I can get some idea of how smooth the nib is, but the ink flows very freely and I will never know what kind of line the pen writes until I can fill the pen and let it feed on its own.

I like it "proto-scholar" like proto-plasm but with less personality!



This was kind of my thought process/ fear because my local pen retailers treat dipping a pen as the step just seconds before they charge your credit card and a dipped pen as just a hair more valuable than one with obvious damage but it seems like the higher dollar the pen the lower the likelyhood of it behaving as you might expect and the greater the pressure to buy it once the pen becomes "used" in their eyes. For example, I have read multiple reviews on the Yard-O-Led Viceroy and each seems to suggest a contrary view of the pens wetness from very dry to quite wet and the same difference in line weight from the same medium rated nib. This is a pretty pricey pen to take a chance on not liking it and having to sell it for a loss. There is a gentleman with a beautiful Bexley in the classifieds in this boat and I'd hate to join him.