I'm a new member, whose experience with fountain pens has been with Waterman medium nibs (Carene, Exception and Etalon, to be exact). I've read about Sailor zoom nibs, and thought they might be an interesting way to branch out. What are people's opinions of them? Are they worth the investment, or should one stick to specific nibs, or should one save up for specialty nibs (such as a Cross or Concord, e.g.). I tend to write small, so I'm not certain that a broader line will work for me.

I have two of the Zoom nibs, both on low-cost Sailor pens.

They took quite a while to get used to, but now I like them. I can get some variation in the line without much thought on my part.

If I ever got a middle-grade or even high-cost Sailor, I'd want to try a different nib, though.

Here's my opinion, since you asked for opinions:

1) The Zoom in a normal hand writes broad. Very broad.
2) You say you have small handwriting.
3) Broad nibs + small handwriting = lots of blobs.
4) I write small, and like fine pens.
5) I bought a Zoom nibbed 1911M to test it out.
6) It wrote smoothly, and varied based on the angle I held it, but pretty much, my normal hand position resulted in a broad line.
7) It was not for me, so I sold it.
8) I later bought a Sailor H-F fine nibbed pen.
9) I love the H-F.
10) I bought another H-F pen, a Profit, it is small, like the 1911M.
11) Still love the H-F.
12) I just bought an Extra Fine 1911.
13) I expect to love it even more than the H-F.
14) The specialty nibs usually write broadly, very broadly, except the saibi-togi, which is extremely fine.
15) If I were in your shoes (and I was, sort of, once), I would try a Sailor, perhaps the 1911M, definitely used, and see if you liked it. Then, you can see which way you want to go with the nib width.
1911's, Profits, and Sapporo's all come up on the Marketplace from time to time, and you could do a lot worse than a Sailor medium nib if you like your Waterman, but wish it were just a little bit more fine.

-George

I believe these nibs are really for writing Asian characters, when you want to achieve something resembling a brush stroke. I wonder if anyone's compared the Sailor Zoom nib with the Sailor Nagahara Concord or Richard Binder's Condor nib? I've been using the Condor nib for a couple of weeks for writing Chinese characters, and it's great for that, but it's a little strange to use it for Western writing.

Thanks for the responses - especially yours, Gepzo. I'll confine my looking to a Sailor medium or fine at the present time.

Here's my experience. Hope that helps a little.
I first bought a Sapporo with a medium. The nib was good, but thiner than what I expected, so I decided to change it to a Zoom nib. The zoom is quite broad, but not that broad. It will give you a constant line unless you manage to change the angle you held the pen during the process of writting, which is quite difficult if you're not used to doing it. Now that I think about it, I think I should rather have taken a music or an extra fine. The zoom nib ok, but not really to my taste in the end.

Nevertheless, it has made me discover the Sailor brand, and I now have a Cross Concord Emperor on a 1911L too, and I love it. I have written a quick review of my pen in the forum if you want to check.


Well, I have both of them, but there isn't really something to compare imho Nevertheless, I'll gladly answer any of your questions, if you have some.

Regards,
Shinichiro.

OK, Shinichiro, so have you tried writing Kanji with both the Zoom nib and the Concord? How well do they work for that? What are the differences?

Don

I bought a 1911M with a zoom nib, didn't know what to expect of it. After some use I've come to the conclusion that I'll send the nib back to Sailor for a replacement for a medium nib. The zoom is way to broad for my writing, and it doesn't produce any line variation despite what some people might have told you...

Kind regards,
Karl

I'd like to see some writing samples from Shinichiro using both pens!

Question about my two Sailors with their zoom nibs. One is a cheap calligraphy model (under $20 on ebay, it looks like a stick), but the other 'looks' like a regular Sailor. It, too, was an ebay purchase, and definitely under $50. But I don't know the model. It's dark navy blue with gold-tone trim.

The Zoom nib has a large ball on the end of the nib, and its not quite round, so the angle determines the amount of the ball's surface that is touching the paper.

I do not believe that it is commonly found on the cheap calligraphy model of any Sailor pen.

The cheap calligraphy Sailor has a bent nib, with a turned up (or was it down? I never owned one, I just saw the pics on ebay and here...) so you could change the surface area on the paper, but you don't write on a "ball" on the end of the nib, you're writing with the rounded part of the nib itself, and these "bent" nibs aren't supposed to be as smooth as a Zoom nib.

I could be wrong, but I think you're writing about a different beastie.

-George

It's clear I need to get myself a REAL Sailor. ^^;;;

I believe there's a misconception about what "calligraphy" means for Asian pens. It's nothing like the Western italic writing done with chisel-pointed nibs. Classical calligraphy in China and Japan (don't know about Korea) is typically done with a brush. Some of these nibs are trying to replicate some of the experience, or at least the line shapes, to a degree, of this kind of brush writing. So these Japanese nibs are not meant to be used for Western-style calligraphy, and you'll be disappointed if that's what you're trying to use them for.

Dr Grace makes a good point here, but here and elsewhere, a key point is left unstated: a calligraphy brush is held vertically.

A look at the design of the cheaper Sailor calligraphy pen, the Sailor Fude pen, and the various similar Chinese pens makes it clear that this is how the designers intend the pens to be used. If you hold the pen vertically, the flat of the nib will be in contact with the page.

I'd be interested to know how some of the more exotic Nagahara nibs behave when used in this manner.

I have med-small writing and I couldn't get along with my Zoom-nibbed 1911 at all, and gave it to my nibmeister in exchange for some nib-work on other pens.
I found that altering my writing angle felt very unnatural, and seemed to have little effect anyway!

Yes, I agree. The Zoom nib doesn't even give a narrow enough line when the pen is held vertically, and you can't get much line width variation by changing the pen angle within a stroke. I find the cheap Sailor calligraphy pen much much better in this regard. Yes, you need to hold these asian calligraphy pens vertically, like a brush, unless you merely want a very broad line, like a highlighter.

I have both a 1911 with zoom nib as well as the Sailor Fude. I use both for highlighting using the Noodlers highlighting inks. The flat part of the Fude will run a reasonbly thick horizontal line but not as thick as a typical Sanford type highlighter. The line from the zoom is thinner but works ok with a more colorful ink like Georgia Peach or St. Patty's Eire.

I've thought seriously about getting a Pelikan 200 from Richard Binder with one of his Condor nibs. I'm sure this sounds like sacrilege for those of you who practice the art of Asian characters. But I would appreciate any feedback on the idea from any of you that have either the Binder Condor or the original Sailor Concord.

Well, not sacrilege, exactly, but there are certainly cheaper ways to do highlighting!

The Condor nib I have makes a reasonably thick line, but it makes brush-like variations at the ends of lines (which is good if you want something resembling brushstrokes.)

Why not sell me your Fude and you can buy something more economical and/or expressly designed for highlighting, like a Platinum Preppy that's been modified by Noodler's for that purpose, or one of Richard Binder's Platypus nibs?

The Sailor Calligraphy pen is the same idea as the Fude, but much cheaper and would probably work just as well for highlighting. I guess an advantage of these pens is that you can use them both for normal writing and highlighting without switching pens. However, you have to use a very low pen angle for highlighting, which might be uncomfortable over long periods.

Apologies, I misspoke. I do not have a Fude but rather the inexpensive clear barrel Sailor caligraphy pen with what they refer to as the 4-in-1 nib. And the angle works very well for me when highlighting.

I agree there are cheaper ways to go about the business of highlighting and I have thought of both alternatives you mentioned Dr. Grace, the Platinum Preppy and Richard's Platypus. I need to explore the Platypus in greater depth but have decided against the Preppy as I would rather use a metal nib. I have seen mention by Richard that he intends to offer the Platypus for nearly $200 for just the nib. I have found that I must be aware of how I hold a pen and write. In my case, my wrist is fairly straight in line with my forearm. I think that it is possible that the Platypus may not work as well if it is not turned at an angle. But as I said, something to look into.

But thank you for your feedback

I own several Sailor's specialty nibs. All of them, except Saibi togi, left from medium to triple broad strokes on paper.
Zoom nib: its tip is well rounded and you have three different angle for writing: the higher one left on paper a medium-broad stroke, the medium angle produces a wet broad stroke and the lower angle a double/triple broad one. The only way to use a zoom for having fine writing is to use it upside.

Sorry for my bad English...

I "stole" this link... : http://www.nibs.com/SailorNibPage.htm

Bye!

So which is the one that gives a medium stroke? The medium Naginatatogi nib I have writes with something close to a European B line.

My favourite naginata togi is the medium-fine one. It seems quite similar to an european medium nib.

I bought Gepzo's 1911M with the Zoom nib- late last year - still getting used to it. it fun, but super broad and I LOVE the shading you can get with an ink like PR Shoreline gold or Copper burst... it doesnt see a lot action, as the uses for such a braod line are few... but I love to take quick notes in meetings with it.

Barry

Good to see that it found a good home! It did some amazing things with Noodler's Habanero, too.