I recently aquired some noodlers ink blue and blue-black. I heard that some noodlers inks can stain, clog, or even ruin a pen. Is this true? Are the inks I that I own safe to use in my favorite fountain pen without the risks and worries of damaging it? The bottles I purchased have a catfish on them. Do these particular inks have a name? Bulletproof? Standard? or are they just called blue? Or blue-black? Any help with the answers to these questions will be greatly apperciated! Thanks!

All inks can stain pens. Ink left long enough can clog pens.
I don't believe the FUD about Noodler's.

Noodler's conventional inks are generally very safe, and I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having problems with them. The Bulletproof and Eternal inks supposedly have particles in suspension in them, which may be slightly more problematic. Neither kind of Noodler's should do any harm to your pen, although you might take the precaution of cleaning it more often than you would with a safe ink (like Waterman). Some people prefer to use Noodler's in their modern pens and less saturated inks in their vintage pens. Basically I wouldn't worry about it - use and enjoy!

Copied from Richard Binder's site: Richard's Pens- http://www.richardspens.com/

This should help:

Your post will probably result in a long thread with seemingly contradictory responses. Noodler's inks are both controversial and very popular at the same time. I use Noodler's bulletproof inks almost exclusively because I like the combination of color and permanence. I make it a practice to flush my pens every now and then to keep them free flowing and that works for me and my pens. Some people who repair pens (Richard Binder and Rick Propas) have seen pens choked by Noodler's (and Private Reserve) inks and have issued varying degrees of cautions about their use.

My own opinion is that they are safe to use if you flush your pens every now and then. You could experiment by using them in a pen or two and monitoring the result. It would be a shame to be over cautious and deprive yourself of some really cool inks. Just my opinion.

Doug

Thanks for some info. I appreciate it!

I think that FPN and other internet resources may distort issues such as product behavior in that there are always a handful of vocal people who make a big fuss, whether positive or negative, about things they have used. Compounding this is the fact that a lot of people just don't get into the fray on one side or the other. My point is, there are always potential issues with products we buy, and sometimes these issues are widespread and deserve to be understood, but sometimes they are the result of not much more than bad luck combined with a need to vent combined with a forum to do so. In the end, as others have pointed out, there may indeed be some problems with Noodler's inks, especially with particular pens, but the majority of people seem to support the brand and enjoy the ink. As a side note, I haven't experienced any real issues with the 5 or 6 Noodler's inks I use.

I've used Noodler's in all my pens with no troubles, including my capilary P61.....*shrug*

-Bruce

Check the Pelikan forums. THere are two threads dealing with this subject. Apparently, Pelikan recommends NOT using Noodlers inks.

There is a lot of confusion on these issues, some of it inescapable because there are inconsistent reports, but some of the confusion is because a lot of folks are not distinguishing between two different sets of pens/pen users.

There is the very large set of all pen users who use Noodler's ink one or more times in one or more pens. Some of that group (or at least of the subset that are FPN members) reports some problems in some pens. The problems differ. On the whole, though, if my completely unscientific perception is correct, the vast majority of Noodler's users here have no lasting problems with Noodler's inks in their pens.

Then there is the group of pen users who send their pens in for repair (not nib adjustments, but warranty or other repair work). Some pen repair people (I have spoken with one repair person, read e-mail from another, and spoken with a seller) apparently have found that a large proportion of the pens that come in for repair or repeated repair have been using inks that are not the traditional mainstream inks. Noodler's has been specifically named, but not to the exclusion of other non-mainstream inks.

Is there an inconsistency? Probably only time will tell. It does seem to me that, if Noodler's were a real problem, we would hear more tales of woe. But it's impossible just to shrug off the assessments of experienced repair people. (Not shrugging off those assessments, of course, does not mean that there are not other factors at play influencing their good faith conclusions.)

My only point in this is that the data that's out there at this time, at least what I've run across, cannot fairly be said to compel one conclusion or the other. I think we need more time, more experience, and more analysis all around, i.e., users and repair stations.

Well, I've kept Noodler Bulletproof black in my Pelikan 200 for five or six months now. Nary a problem. The Pelikan inks, although nice looking, wash away in a flash.

I have used Noodler's almost exclusively for a couple of years now, and my two Pelikans fly swiftly and ecstatically with Legal Lapis and Navy. If I owned a "vintage" pen, I might well be inclined to use a thinner ink for that. I have a Parker Sonnet and a Lamy Safari that usually seem to prefer Quink or Diamine or others of that ilk. So I am pleased to accomodate them; there are many fine inks to choose from. Otherwise, I revel in Noodler's, especially the darker "near-bulletproof" variety, such as Aircorp blue-black.

I love the opinions. It seems from what I hear that noodlers is probably fine. I'm gonna give it a go and see what happens. I am curious to know if my inks have a name other than blue and blue-black? The bottles both have catfish on them. If anyone knows what kind of ink I have I would love to know. I can't seem to find any information about this. Again thanks fp members!

Blue and blue-black are probably the colors. Since you're local, if you want to try some others, let me know. I can make up some sample vials for you.

I'm not sure how many Noodler's ink bottles I have, actually.

I wanted to use noodler for the permanence...but
My recent experience is that Noodler's blue didnt work for me in the Nakaya, the ink flow somehow is inhibited.
Changed to Platinum blue-black and Sailor ink, flowing just fine.

Goodluck!

The catfish is on most of the bottles in some form or another, or on the box, since the name 'Noodler's' takes its name from the sport that involves baiting catfish with your fingers(Noodling).

I have had some starting/skipping issues with Noodlers blue in vintage pens despite daily use.

Won't do any harm to my pens so I stick to "save" inks with my vintage pens and use my Noodlers inks in Pelikanos or the Lamy vista.
They are not expensive and easily to replace. Being a pragmatic this is the easiest way not to worry about my vintage pens and use Noodlers at the same time.

Due to a combination of laziness and forgetfulness I left a couple of vintage Pelikans (100 and 140) loaded with Noodler's Navy for a few months. Despite my mild alarm when I remembered, both wrote without hesitation and flawlessly at the first attempt and I've had no problem with them since. For whatever that's worth....

Simon

I started with Noodler's and I've been using them exclusively. No complaints from me. Most of my pens are pretty happy, including my Pelikans. Only the Parkers (Sonnet and Inflection) had any real problems, but it wasn't due to Noodler's since they had the same problems using their own ink. My VP's thrive on Noodler's as much as my Pelikans.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be a big fuss as to whether there are distortions of overall experiences with a particular product.

Kurt

I use Noodlers because I love the colors and saturation.
I've had problems that I know of.

I think Richard Binder's article "Inks: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" addresses the question very well. Here is a quote from it:



This describes my experience with the inks. Some of the bulletproof colors don't flow well to me (eg. Verdun) and tend to dry on the nib. I definitely feel that I have had to clean more sludge from feeds when using Noodlers, and to flush more carefully. That said, I use a lot of Noodlers, and I use it in vintage pens (though there are some pens I do not use it in and reserve for very safe inks). I love some of the colors, and the bulletproof qualities are without parallel. But I also am finding myself really liking Diamine for general use - less fuss, great colors, good behavior.

I also find there is a fair variation among the different Noodlers inks, and they behave different ways. I do not like most of the fast-dry high-feathering inks. Some of the slow drying inks behave a little better if the ink is diluted a little.

Edit to add: I think the term "high-maintenance" is a good discriptor for Noodlers inks. Will they damage your pens (other than some colors that have staining issues, which is true for more than Noodlers)? No, but they do require more maintenance to keep them trouble-free.

As for the sellers who exclude Noodlers from their warranty - I think that is fair, depending on the problem. If you use Noodlers, expect there may be some extra maintenance, and expect to take responsibility for that maintenance. Don't use a more difficult ink and then expect the seller to clean it out for free. In that sense Rick is perfectly fair to exclude Noodlers from his warranty. On the other hand, if you use Noodlers and the piston filler breaks down or something else happens that is not the fault of Noodlers, then I don't think it is fair of the seller to claim using the warranty is voided.


John

Which is perfectly reasonable if you consider that many non-business people who buy fountain pens, do so for the ability to use a variety of bright vibrant colours. These users will be drawn to Noodler's Ink and other non-traditional companies which offer a rainbow of colours. These users also are likely new FP users who will send a pen off for repair, rather than muddle around with it themselves.

Also, if you consider the popularity of Noodler's Ink, it isn't that strange that a majority of pens are filled with it.

I've sent three pens off, a CS, a YOL and a MB all of which needed work. They had all been filled with Noodler's Ink, but their issues were independent of the ink used.

I've used Noodler's Ink for several years and with the exception of a couple of known troublesome inks (Britannia's Blue Waves and Baystate Blue) I've never had any problems with it in modern or vintage pens.

I am a regular Noodlers user with Polar Blue loaded into some of my Pelikans and Parker 51 Vacs, I have baystate blue in two Aeromtric Fill Parker 51's and a medium nibbed Pelikan M605 and a Aurora 88. I really have yet to have problems with the ink in my pens. I do flush on a semi regular basis and that is just sound maintainence.

I like your take on this. I guess taking the extra time and care for the pen would make sense in preventing future problems that might happen (aka common sense) . Using noodlers in vintage pens is my primary concern, and from what I've read it seems that most people are split in their opinions. I began using my blue noodlers in my Omas paragon (old model) and it seems to be working just fine so far. I want to use this ink in a limited edition MB, but I'm not completly sold yet. However, that could change the more I learn about noodlers. I must say I do love the color of the blue, and it would suck to not put it down on paper. Again I really apperciate all the feedback on this subject. Please keep the information coming! Thanks FPN members!

I was told that University Art in Palo Alto will start selling Noodler's in a couple of weeks from now, FYI.

The only Noodler's Ink I use ATM is Noodler's Bulletproof black. Black isn't one of those inks where "Shade" is a problem. In my mind black is black and it is the ONE color of ink that should NEVER come out. Maybe Noodler's doesn't have the colors you want, but if you need a good black ink... Noodler's is your best bet.

Due to its high saturation of dye, I like to avoid putting it in vintage celluloid pens because it can stain them...

Excellent! That's great news. I really don't like mail ordering unless I have to -- except that all my favorite Noodler's colors seem to be Pendemonium exclusives.

Would you care to elaborate on the problems (if I'm reading the post correctly) and which colours?

I've only had one real problem and that was with Noodler's Highland's Heather. Others have reported similar problems with clogging (on the UK Eternal Inks as well).

I regularly use Legal Lapis and Iraqi Indigo in Hero 329s and 616s for addressing envelopes. I have other Noodler's inks -- but use them only in cheap pens like Platinum Preppy pens and lower-end Pilots (from speerbob on eBay). They do not go into my vintage pens or my higher-end pens.

Been using various Noodler's inks for some time now. They are perfectly safe to use, with one exception: Baystate Blue. It may permanently stain some pens. It's a gorgeous-looking ink, though, so I would recommend an el cheapo FP that you haven't emotionally invested in

I bought a bottle of Noodler's Black but have had clogging problems with it. I use a variety of pens; Parker, Waterman and Kaweco, and have the same problem with all of them. The same pens work flawlessly with Qwink, but run Noodlers and I get skipping and often outright failure to write.

I've tried diluting the Noodlers, but that hasn't helped perceptibly. I read here than some folks actually dilute the ink at a whopping 3:1 ink/water ratio. Well, I haven't tried that much dilution.

I like the permanence of Noodlers. I've done some water soak tests of paper written with various inks, and after the paper dries I can't tell that the Noodlers was ever wet! Of course, that's pretty moot unless I can figure out how to reliably get the ink to transfer from the pen to the paper.

I use Noodlers and have not personally had what I would consider a serious problem.

But. IMHO.

(1) Noodlers & PR are saturated solutions with more dye than traditional inks.

(2) Dilute them 3:1, more or less, and you have traditional ink.

(3) The user is forcing more dye, saturated solution, through the feed so naturally you can get clogs, dye percipitating out, under some circumstances.

(4) The ability to clear such a clog depends on the user's level of skill. (Yes the pen repair people can do it and it is naturally a charged operation.)

(5) Since it can cause warranty work and tarnish their reputations it is no supprise that the pen manufacures and dealers discourage saturated inks.

(6) Note that manufactures' inks are all traditional as they wish to avoid any problems. (Similar reason is why no manufacture will sell a wet noodle flex nib anymore. They do learn from experience.)

(7) Fountain pens were created with certain purposes in mind. Painting is not one of them. If people must have the "blackest line" and opaque colors they are looking at the wrong tool. Black line, india ink and a dip pen, or a roller ball. Opaque colors, artists ink and a dip pen.

(8) Not all inks were with all pens. Repeat.

(9) If you absolutely have to have a problem causing combination, you will probably have to learn some pen repair and buy and ultrasonic cleaner. Everything has its cost and there is no free lunch.

(10) Personally I prefer traditonal ink and as I use my saturates down a quarter of a bottle, the water goes in.

(11) More or less as F.D. once said, 'remember, its just ink.'
YMMV.

Modern pens often have over-ventilated caps, and will give you fits with any "saturated" ink. I have used Noodler's black in a variety of pens, and the only one that has caused trouble was a Cross Penatia. Rather serious clogging and hard starts. I suspect too much air in the cap from the EU requirement that a child be able to breathe through the cap, hence a perforated innner cap (this also causes problems with other inks, but PR and Noodler's will be the worst).

What pens are you using Noodler's black in? I've had very good results in vintage Wearevers, Sheaffer TD, Sheaffer Snorkels (open and Triumph nibs), and Parker "51"s.

Noodler's El Lawrence only works for me reliably in a single Parker 21 Super unless I use it every day, though.

Peter

I use the Noodlers Black in a couple of Kaweco Scouts, a Waterman and a Parker. Same story in all three pens with Noodlers, even though Qwink flows flawlessly in all my pens.

Yesterday, I took my Kaweco, which was working fine with Qwink, flushed it throughly, and refilled with a 3:1 ink/water Noodlers Black mix... same story. I can shake the pen violently until the feed fills up, and the pen will write well until the feed empties, then I have to shake the pen until the feed fills again. Noodlers turns my pens into something resembling dip pens... I gotta recharge the things by shaking then they write ok for a line or so.

I'm sure the Noodlers is good ink, otherwise it wouldn't get the praise I've read (the reason I bought Noodlers). But, it's just not cut out for me and my equipment.

I read this thread and think there was a misinterpretation of information. Pelikan instruction manuals state clearly that permanent inks should not be used because they can clog the feed and corrode nibs. This implies iron gall inks. Noodlers bulletproof inks are permanent but not iron gall--they don't have corrosive particulates--so they should be fine.

Neill

If you dilute bulletproof black, will it still be bulletproof and everything?

djrsf42----- Ihave a number of old paragons (pre 2005 model is what I mean here, not real vintage) and I love them.

However I have found that the Omas pistons get more stiff over time than do the Pelikan and Aurora pistons. I guess what I should say is that MY paragons seemed to get stiffer over time much faster than did my Pelikans and Auroras. I do not really know is this is true for all of these pens, but the difference seems noticable to me, especially the paragon celluloids.

So, maybe those old paragons are better off on a diet of lighter dye content inks? The paragon is not as easy to service as those pens with nib units that are designed to be unscrewed by the average owner.

I would be relieved if anyone can say with confidence that my concerns are unwarranted. But I treat all my pens the same and the Omas pens all have stiffer pistons than the Pelikans and Auroras and I wonder if for some reason the insides of the Omas pens or the Omas piston collected more dye that did not flush away than did the insides of the other pens.

j