Hello, my Pelikan m200 recently developed a fault, and while I organise its return to get it fixed under the 3 year guarantee I was interested in purchasing a second fountain pen to act a backup/alternative.
On browsing these forums, I have seen people comparing the Waterman Phileas to the m200. Are there any other fountain pen's which people would recommend I consider?
The m200 was my first purchase (outside of £5 parker fountain pens which one is able to purchase from any high street stationary store), so I am pretty excited about this new purchase and want to make it a good one

On a side note, I was very happy with the m200 but am not averse to trying heavier pens.
I am mostly interested in ensuring that I spend about the same amount as I did on the m200 (about £50). Also I am not too fussy about whether it works using cartridges or a similar system to the m200.

Thanks for any feedback. I am going to spend some more time perusing these forums and will post any ideas which I come up with. In fact, it was these forums which helped me decide to buy the m200 2 years ago

I'm using both and I must say I personally prefer the M200 due to its weight and nib. The Phileas has a broader line (I use F nibs for both) but seems sturdier. Having said that, I bought the Phileas specifically because I needed a robust pen for school.

I hope that helps.

Lamy Safari

First of all, welcome to the FPN!!

The switch from the M200 to the Phileas is a big one in my opinion. The Phileas is 5.5" capped (135 mm) and the M200 is about 4.75" (121 mm). The weight is noticeable but since I don't have my M200 anymore (it was to small for me) I don't know the exact weight. I don't think you will be dissapointed in the Phileas regardless but the Pelikan nibs are a little smoother.....again in my opinion. As for cost, the Waterman should be about $15.00 less than the Pelikan. I know office supply stores in the US have the Phileas on sale pretty often.

Hi, thanks for the welcome and the opinions.

The thing about these forums is how it can quickly leave one craving pens outside one's planned budget.
Now, I am actually considering the Pilot Capless Decimo. This is an extra 1.3rd over budget, whilst the Phileas in uk is only only about £25-30, around half the cost of my m200.

Having enjoyed the smoothness of the Pelikan, I don't think I would relish a less smooth nib.
The thing I hear is that the Decimo nib is meant to be a joy to use.
The only issue I have is that I am left handed and am somewhat worried about whether I would have problems with it due to the placement of the clip. I am one of those left hand writers who holds the pen upside down to most other writers. I have been trying to experiment with my m200 to see if an imaginary clip being there would act as a hinderance or not. I do tend to leave some gap, but then again, the m200 is a rather slim pen.

Confused!

On a side note, I found the decimo on ebay for £80, as opposed to the RRP of over £100 (up to £115 i think).

The other pen I was looking at the Waterman Charleston, which is also £80 from a dealer, and it has an RRP of £100.

Any preferences? Or alternatives? It looks like my budget has increased to paying more than I did for my m200.

Some extra information is that I have rather small writing and use a fine nib on my m200

When some people speak about the M200 it seems that the Sailor Sapporo is always around and vice versa. These two pens are the same size, the same price range (a Sapporo cost 99$), the same high quality and very good value for money.

I've been owing a Sapporo for two weeks, and it really writes like a dream (smooooooooooooooooth !!). I just love it. I think you cannot go wrong with it.

Thanks, I've added that to the list too. Just out of interest, did you go for the standard, slim or mini size? I found the Sailor Sapparo for £70, so I would be saving £10 over the other two pens

I have a Sailor Sapporo (sometimes called Pro Gear slim), not a Sapporo Mini. Regarding pens sizes, it's Pro Gear (21K nib) > Sapporo > Sapporo mini.

And it costs 69£ here : http://www.thewritingdesk.co.uk/showproduc...ro&cat=pens or 99$ at www.melpens.com.

No affiliation.

PS : there are nice reviews of this pens on this forum, you can see here : http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...st&p=557771 some pictures of mine

Thanks for the clarification and the links. I think this pen is at the top of my list now. I've read all the reviews on the forums and also enjoyed your comments and the pictures which you took of it. I will sleep on it, and make a decision tomorrow.

Do you think that Sailor's medium nib is roughly the equivalent of a western fine nib? Like I said, I do have small writing and hence I generally prefer a fine nib. Would I be ok with a fine nib on the sailor or go for a medium?

Or Lamy Studio if you like to have a heavier pen. Has the same nib as the Safari.

A lot of people around say the Sailor's medium nib is the equivalent of a western nib. One thing you have to keep in mind is that the Sapporo is wet, and I think it writes line between western fine and medium.

You can see the difference between my lamy F (which is usually told to be a bit broader than western F) and my Sailor M (which is usually told to be finer than western M)

Personnaly, the M nib is perfect for me and my handwriting. If you like a fine line as you said, I think the Sailor F will be perfect for you.

Here some links, hope it helps :
http://www.nibs.com/Tipping%20Sizes%20page.htm
http://www.rhkoning.com/gallery/albums/album06/page37.jpg

Sailor nibs :


A 1911 with a F nib


Sailor F and M




(all the pictures belong to their authors)

Yes.

Waterman Phileas is a wonderful choice.I had one and itwas a pleasure.
Another pen is the Lamy 2000.Its a piston filler and even though I never had one I hard lots of good things about it.
Another idea is another Pelikan.An M200 or and M400.

Lamy Safari would be my alternative/back-up to the M200. But if you can get the Decimo for about 80 quid, grab it. You may find the Decimo eventually rivaling the M200 for your attention!

You can't beat the M200. That's why I use one as a backup--and with different ink.

I would agree - I have a Sailor 1911M (very like the Sapporo) in a medium nib which writes just a fraction wider than my Pelikan F nibs (which themselves vary!).

But if you have small writing, you might like to try a Sapporo in a fine nib. It will be more like a Pelikan EF. BTW, there's a really good review here somewhere comparing a Pelikan 405 to the Sailor Sapporo, and since the 405 is similar in dimensions to the 200, it might help you decide whether the Sapporo would be an enjoyable alternative.

There's also the MF size, which I have on both my Sailor pens. There is rather a large difference between the Sailor F and Sailor M, so they offer the in-between size. Depending on the particular Western fine, either the M or MF will work. In either case, the pen will give you a clear, wet line, and be smoother than a Pelikan m200 F. You might also want to consider the 1911m, which I have. Same thing, different body style.
The Pelikan m200 was one of the first nice pens I got, and I debated over whether to choose it, or a Sailor 1911m. After learning that the Pelikan was piston-filled as opposed to the c/c Sailor, I went with that route, and got the Sailor some time later. Now, filling systems aside, I can say that I much prefer the Sailor.
You might also be able to find a Lamy 2000 close to your price range if you get lucky. It, too, features an incredibly smooth nib, and is a German piston filler like the Pelikan.

oh! I had *thought* I had seen reference to the MF size before, but haven't seen it offered at my usual on-line haunts, so I thought perhaps I was dreaming. Until this thread

I've noticed the same thing as you - a big jump between the F and M, and I would really like something in between. I guess I'd better keep a sharper eye out for these.

By the way, do you know where I can buy a MF nib for my Sapporo ? I've been looking around for it without success...

Any comments on the decimo's compatibility with a left handed writer? (the clip getting in the way)

At the moment, the Sailor Sapparo is still on top of my list. I think the Lamy 2000 is out of my range in that it's double my original budget whilst the other pens are around 50% over, which is still acceptable for me.

How about a Pilot Ecrino? I recently bought one (reviewed here) and it immediately reminded me of my M200. It's actually longer, but it's slim and light and has a great nib. My F is very fine, though. More of an XF or maybe even XXF, so if you get one, order a nib grade broader than your Pelikan.

Hmmm... I notice that Worldlux has kicked the price up from its clearance price of $45 to $60. I got mine on their Leap Day Sale for $38 including shipping, but I think it probably makes a good $60 pen as well.

The Lamy Safaris and AL-stars that others have suggested make great pens too. They're quite a bit bigger overall than the M200, but the triangulated sections are quite slim like the M200. You could get a Safari AND an AL-star for the price of that Ecrino. That might be a better deal...

Doug

I've got no control over myself! Now I am considering the Lamy 2000 which would mean spending £100 now! hmmmm

I need to draw the line somewhere wrt my budget. On the plus side, I am using my credit card which has 0% on purchases till October (provided I spend the money by June).

Hopefully by October I should have a degree which should improve my income

Ok, so suppose I was looking at top entry level pens which now include the Pilot Capless Decimo (£80), the Sailor Sapparo (£70), and the Lamy 2000 (£100), any ideas of any other pens in the same kind of budget/category?

I am also still unsure as to the Decimo's compatibility for my left handed style though.
Thanks for the advise regarding the Sapparo's nib.

Another alternative is the Waterman Carene which also comes for £100 from the store I am browsing online (with an RRP of £130). I am enjoying the reviews on this pen too, though there aren't many around for some reason.

On a side note, one thing which does irk me about the Lamy 2000 is that I gather from this review that UK prices are double those of US prices, so I am not sure if it's the best way of spending £100 on a pen:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=38527

Oh, I just realised that the above reviewer obtained it from Malaysia, so hopefully £100 is not overly priced for that pen

I just checked my writing style a bit more closer. I realise that the Decimo, despite the excellent value at £80, is not suitable for my left handed style of writing.

So the list is now:
Sailor Sapparo (£70), and the Lamy 2000 (£100) and Waterman Carene (£100)
If I include the Pelikan m400/405, I would have to push my budget up to £120 which is going overkill in my opinion (for now at any rate. Maybe in 6 months my financial situation will allow it)

Here is a Lamy 2000 less expensive than 100£ : http://www.melpens.com/Lamy_2000_fountain_pen.htm, and it will be delivered in 3-4 days. Same thing with the Sailor Sapporo http://www.melpens.com/Sailor_Sapporo_fountain_pen.htm (I'm not affiliated, just a very happy customer)

Or, if you're reallt happy with your M200, why not getting another one in a different color (eg the lemon limited edition, which looks really nice !). You'll know what you'll get with this pen, no surprises !


(About the Waterman Carène, I had an opportunity to get one at 69€ with F or M nib this week end, but it's too late now. I think I should, price was really good ! )

Thanks for the links. I can't believe a pen made in the EU would be cheaper from the US,lol. In fact, I suppose that with those links you provided, I could afford to buy both pens for the roughly the same amount, however, I probably should instead take advantage and save some money.
Now it just depends on which is the best option out of those 2/3 pens. I would like to make a decision at some point today so I can place the order and forget about it. I've spent HOURS since yesterday researching.
I suppose that once I have a backup pen, then I can always shop for deals later on and acquire the other 2 pens.
I am put off getting another m200 because I want to try something new, and also because I have had problems with the piston filling on that pen from within a few weeks of owning the m200. Oh, and when I showed it to my friend, she said she could see any notable difference in it's quality of writing compared to the £5 fountain which she bought from a standard stationary store.
I did beg to differ in that at first I probably agreed, but since then I do find the m200 has grown on me, yet I'm not blown away by it to be honest. Not considering it cost 10x more than any other pen I had owned previously.


Update, I am now 90% towards buying the Sailor Sapporo F and the Lamy 2000 EF from those two links which you provided. I have a feeling that my m200 may not be fixed under the guarantee so I might as well purchase 2 pens so if one needs to go back or is lost, I still have a backup available. Can anyone think of any reason why I shouldn't order both pens? (such as Sapporo is just as good as the lamy 2000 for less money or something)

Cannot comment on the Sailor Sapporo but I have the Lamy 2K and the Pelikan 400. I love my Pelikans. They are great pens and my daily writers. And I like the Lamy 2K, too. Both pens would be a good choice.

Hi, the pelikan m400 is $60 more than the Lamy 2K and the Sailor Sapporo so I am somewhat averse to purchasing that one at present.
By the way, does anyone know if the Sapporo is supplied with a converter or if this needs to be purchased separately? I have emailed Melpens for clarification on this issue.
I have also heard that due to size of the Sapporo, it is sometimes hard to fit a converter in there, but I was hoping that a sailor brand converter would work fine such as the one on this page:
http://www.melpens.com/Sailor_ink_cartride_bottle_.htm

Hmmm - I've never had a hard time with the converter fit in my Sapporo (or the 1911M for that matter. As an aside - the Sapporo and 1911M are almost identical, but the 1911M has conical ends so it's kind of cigar shaped and a a wee bit longer. They're similarly priced and come in colours, so if you like that look better, that's another consideration).

My Sapporo came with a converter, but I didn't get it from the dealer you're considering so it's good to check.

From what I have learned from hanging around here for the last couple of weeks is that you can never have enough pens. No, really.

To shed some light on your question on the Decimo/VP pens. From a good friend who is a FP whore, told me that these pens are more lefty friendly. He used to own a VP and sold it to a mutual friend of ours because of the pocket clip being uncomfortable for him, being a righty. Now I'm this is very subjective but all I know is that the my friend, a lefty, who bought the VP is very happy with it and he is not a FP guy.

Thanks for the info. What I found is that when I grip the pen, my thumb covers the entire area directly above the nib which is where the clip is placed on the Decimo. This is what put me off that pen.

Also, with respect to the 1911m, I notice that it is pretty much identically priced to the Sapporo, so the only question is, what are the pros and cons of one over the other? aside from a slight difference in size/shape, are there any differences wrt nib, wetness? I had a quick search to see any Sapporo vs 1911m threads but didn't see any. I will try a more detailed search during my break from studying later.
Perhaps just reading over reviews of the 2 models will highlight any key differences

Also, does anyone know if I would end up paying any duty on ordering 2 pens from the US and having them sent to the UK?

I think the difference between the 1911M and the Sapporo comes down personal preference. James of Pear Tree Pens pointed out in one thread (which I can't find right now!) that the bodies are the same size and the caps of either pen can be interchanged - so can the sections, I believe. They are basically the same pen with cosmetic changes.

I can't do a straight-up comparison for writing quality because my Sapporo is a F and 1911M is a medium; both are just-right for wetness, but the medium feels smoother because it's a broader nib. The F is still plenty smooth, though. The nib is 14K for both pens, but the Sapporo nib is more ornate.

I bought the 1911M first because I wanted a blue pen, but to be honest I think the Sapporo is a nicer looking pen. I like the flat top with the anchor on it. But some people like having the colour choices of the 1911M and prefer the cigar shape. Both will provide an extremely satisfying writing experience. I probably use both pens equally.

I'll add - if you've been happy with your M200 I think that either of the Sailors are fairly close in size and ergonomics. The grip feels a bit wider than on a Pelikan (OK, I actually only have 400s but I'm told they're identical in size to the 200) and the pen is a bit heavier. The Sailor caps seem a bit heavier so less comfy or me to post than the Pelikans - but I have small hands, so most people find the Sailors perfectly comfy posted or not.

My Sapporo from melpens.com came with box, papers, Sailor converter and 2 Sailor cartridges.

And Melpens is based in Singapore, not in the US My pens were shipped by DHL, takes 4 days (including Eastern) to come to France. Melpens put 25$ as declared value and GIFT on the invoice, so I avoid the custom taxes.

(No affiliation, I'm just really happy with this purchase and this seller)

Thanks for the information, now I don't have to wait for them to reply to me so I can go ahead and place my order for the Lamy 2000 and the Sailor Sapporo (i prefer the look of it to the 1911m, plus since I am used to the m200, I'm guessing I will prefer the smaller sized Sapporo.)

Oddly enough, I can't find the Sapporo in MF size, either. I thought they were more common... It might just be a shortage at the moment that you can wait out. I couldn't find the 1911m in MF, either, and I know those exist because I have one (although it was purchased in Japan). Right now, I can only find the MF on the Professional Gear and other models.

I'm exactly in the same situation, can only find the no-slim no-mini ProGear with a MF nib. Hopfully, it will be my next pen ! I just need money !

Did you guys see this post? Sailor Sapporo LE - new for spring. Scroll down to the white pen....

Maybe that's where all the MF nibs have gone.

I just bought an old-style 400 (which I don't regret) but that's the only thing keeping me from being all over these new Sapporos.....