I am gathering up equipment to start pen turning and I am going to get a mini-lathe but I don't really want to have to get a drill press. Is there a way to drill blanks with a lathe?

Thanks very much for your help.

Using a lathe is the preferred method. Drill bit is held in a chuck in the tail stock. The negative is that the bed needs to be a bit longer to accommodate the length of the drill bit and the chuck. My assumption is that you are removing the center of the blank.

mike

Thank you for your response. Yes I am removing the center of the blank. I don't understand the terminology yet so I am sorry to ask but what is the bed and how do you make it a bit longer?

Thanks - Barb

Barb,

The bed of the lathe is a fixed length; It is the 'left to right' distance between the chuck and headstock (on the left of the lathe) and the tailstock (on the right). If you are going to drill a blank you really need a lathe with a minimum bed length of:- the pen blank length + drill length + a bit of spare.
If the lathe bed is less than this, you'll have trouble drilling the centre hole and may have to buy yourself a number of drills which you cut to different lengths so that the shorter drills are used to start the hole and longer drills are used in a deep hole. You really don't want to go there if you can avoid it! There are ways to get around it, but it's all of a horrible fiddle.
When lathes are specified the 'Distance between Centres' is usually quoted. This is the distance between the points of standard centres put in the headstock & tailstock. It does not allow for the size of the headstock & tailstock chucks. If the lathe quotes 20" between centres, then the maximum distance between the headstock & tailstock chucks will be around 15". Be aware of this. On a 300mm bed metalworking lathe, the usable distance between chucks will be around 200mm, which would allow 100mm for the pen blank and 100mm for the drill - this may just be enough, depending on the pen design.
The headstock is the left end of the lathe where the main motor drive and chuck/faceplate goes.
The tailstock is the right end of the lathe and can slide up and down the lathe bed. You can (depending on the work) 1) ignore the tailstock, 2) use it as a centre to support the work or 3) with a tailstock chuck, use it to drill holes along the centreline instead of a drill press.

In days of yore, before electric motors became cheap, lathes were often used as a drill press, with the work pressed against the tailstock and the drill was held in the headstock chuck. Then the work was fed up to the rotating drill. It works, but a drill press is easier.

Regards

Richard.

the other answers here are all correct answers, technically. They just didn't offer enough info. What you will need to drill the blanks is a Four jaw Scroll chuck with long nose jaws for the headstock and a Jacobs (drill) chuck for the tailstock. These two accessories will set you back about $150.00 for the least expensive tools available. Try GRIZZLY TOOLS, Penn State Industries, for availability.

The Lathe itself needs to be at minimum a JET Mini or equivalent size from Delta, Grizzly, Rikon or any of the others available. Personally, I prefer the Jet and the Rikon to any of the others. Again, personal taste.

On the other hand, an inexpensive drill press, and some sort of blank holding and centering jig can be less expensive than the Scroll and Jacobs chuck's needed. My advice is to buy a good lathe and a cheap bench-top drill press form GRIZZLY or Harbor Freight.

Have you done any turning before? Do you know how to use and sharpen gouges and skews? Do you know of any wood turners nearby that you can ask for help?

Wood-turning is a fairly simple excercise, once you know how to use the tools. However learning to use them safely is another matter. Approaching a blank spinning at 2500+ RPM with a sharp tool and no knowledge is a recipe for disaster. Approaching the same blank with a DULL tool is even worse.

This is a great hobby, but Mr Murphy is a frequent visitor to the workshop. Have fun, Be creative. And above all, Be Careful.

Penturner

You will also need a chuck with the appropriate jaws to hold the blank in place so that it can be drilled...
I happen to like Oneway and Technatool chucks... I currently have 2 Technatool chucks for my Jet 1236... the older one is set up for drilling blanks and turing small stock items... the other for bowls..
When you consider even a small chuck from one of these companies is going to cost you about $125.00, you might want to purchase a drill press..
However, that being said.... all my blanks are drilled on the lathe... the accuracy is much more superior...

Whatever you do... DO NOT buy a cheap chuck thinking you will only use it for drilling... the accuracy is just not there...

Great Minds Think Alike

Now I am really ticked off at The Boss.....
Ruaidhri has never come and visited my shop....
But then again, he probably knows you need a lot more help than I do

Thank you everyone for your insights and suggestions. I will give it a try. Barb

Better be careful, Mr Mullane, not to let your Alligator Mouth overload your Hummingbird Butt
Lest Murphy visit YOUR pen collection.

bscherokman, thanks for asking, because I had the same question, I just wasn't there yet.

The centering device for the drill press isn't totally necessary. I managed with just a little clamp that bolts onto the bed of the press, and I've seen printed instructions that use one of them wooden clamps, with 2 long screws in 'em to hold the blank while you drill it. I tried that, and it works pretty well. If the hole isn't perfectly centered, you do waste additional material when turning the blank to a cylinder, and that can become a factor with the fatter pen kits, like the popular El Grande and Churchill sets. With the thinner pens, the wasted material doesn't really matter.

All that being said, I must agree with the cheap chuck = not so good for drilling on the lathe. I got a $35 Jacobs chuck , and put it in the tailstock, and tried to drill my turned blank (I did a closed-end pen in the wrong order, living and learning!), and it chattered something fierce. I ended up with a decent drilled hole, but it would have been a lot easier if I'd just done it on the drill press. I got an inexpensive one for about $80 at Sears.

One thing I'll warn you about is to make sure that the drill press can travel far enough for you. Mine only has a 2" travel distance, and most pens require at least 2" depth, if not 2 1/2, so I've got to do a little dance of drilling the first 1 1/2 inches, then moving the work piece up (along with the table it sits on), and drilling the next 1 1/4 inches or so, starting with the drill bit halfway into the piece. Not ideal, at all, but I can deal with it, and had the press long before I got into pen turning. Next time, I'll get a bigger press.

Say, does anyone have any tips on sharpening the knives and gouges? I have a grinder, but I don't like it much. I'd rather use a belt sander, which seems to work okay. I've seen a Tormek-like sharpener from Harbor Freight...what do y'all use?

- George

Gepzo,

I sharpen my tools on a bench grinder. I've made a couple of jigs that hold chisels & lumps of HSS at angles I can set. It works quite well. For final grinding & honing I use a hand oil stone followed by a slip stone. I don't often need to do honing because of the quality work I'm doing - 'adequate' usually describes it, as I go for an 'original' look on my work in the house, ie it's been beaten up by constant use for 112 years. It's rare for anyone to be able to identify my work in the house, and we fooled a couple of surveyors who liked the 'original' cupboards and wainscot boarding when selling our last house (we did tell them!).

I have a woodworking friend who uses a linisher with a fine belt to sharpen his plane blades. It seems to work. The honing guide for my plane has worn a dip in the middle of my oil stone, which means that I have a plane that cuts a bit more in the middle than on the edges - so my hand plane doesn't get used often.

Regards

Richard.

Using a power tool to sharpen fine tools/chisels etc is asking to ruin them unless you are very careful and know what you are doing you will overheat the edge and ruin the temper.

This means it won't hold an edge worth a damn afterwards. VERY shallow cuts, SLOW SPEED and cool running wheels/belts are essential to protect the temper, honing can be done by hand.

I generally do everything but major reshaping by hand. Less risk to the tool quality in the end.


edited for typo

Only if you are using a high speed grinder that is normally found in most shops

I have been using a 8" Slow Speed grinder to sharpen my tools for over 10 yrs and have never had a problem
When I started turning, I asked questions at my turning club before thinking about buying a sharpening tool...
I also took a couple of classes with some professional turners...
They all recommended a 8" Slow Speed Grinder....
It is not rocket science... but even with a slow speed you need to be careful not to overheat the edge... but it is a lot easier not to on a slow speed

Key words... Just wanted to emphasize for those who are "new" to the process.

I'm a hand tool kind of guy. The boats I build are mostly done with hand tools too. Chisels, planes, etc... I enjoy it more even if it is slower.

I'm known among my mates as a b... fanatic when it comes to sharpening
Simple fact is that ornamental turning is not possible with tools that are not honed to perfection.

For normal woodturning I use this:

Just a piece of leather (red arrow) on a piece of MDF with a 16tpi plumbing connector
Used with white compo (green arrow) it will hone a tool to a razor finish. Cuts out a load of faffing about with sandpaper.

The other arrow is pointing at a tennis (??) wrist band - saves knuckles on the 4 jaw (Axminster, McDonnell jaws in pic)

For drilling blanks, this is my preferred method - quick & cheerful (there's no pressure on that visegrip BTW - it's just to hold against rotation):


Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Ruaidhrí

Thanks for the pics, Ruaidhri! I don't feel so bad about my mess now! Thanks for the sharpening advice, everyone! Looks like I'll be doing that sharpening jig project next... right after I finish cleaning up the shavings.

So, your blank drilling operation there, you're holding the blank with your left hand, and I take it that you're cranking the tailstock with your right to drive the blank into the bit? I'm a bit of a wuss, and never thought to do such a thing, even though it probably isn't that unsafe... the drill bits don't fling the work across the shop, they'll just try and spin it a bit, and the worst part is probably getting started.

-George

Yep. It only needs light pressure to stop the blank from spinning.
You may already have a handle on your tailwheel - I ddn't so I drilled and tapped it to take a handle.
Makes for much faster withdrawal.

You can see it in the third from last pic here

As we've said before - the main thing is to have fun

Cheers,
Ruaidhrí

Just one thing to remember about tools.

If you use High Speed Steel (HSS) tools they are much more tolerant of heat than carbon steel tools and you will not loose the temper if they run at less than red heat. So, the warnings about running grinders cool and slow do not apply to HSS tools. The temper on a really hard carbon steel is drawn if the steel exceeds 215 degrees centigrade (420 deg F, gas mark 7). The steel will not be softened if the temperature does not get up to its tempering temperature, it will be softened only if it's exceeded.

There is a down side to HSS tools though. They do not seem to hold an edge in quite the same way as a good carbon steel. For the absolute best work possible carbon steel tools are an imperative. For lesser work, you take your pick.

For info, the list below (of tempering temperatures, steel colours and uses) is drawn from Marv Klotz's web site ( http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/ ) with editing and Gas Mark temperatures added by me - because I try to temper my tools in the kitchen oven if possible (ie when Tracy's out of the house!).

Tempering Colour: FAINT YELLOW; 420 degF; Gas Mark 7; Use: KNIVES,HAMMERS
Tempering Colour: VERY PALE YELLOW; 430 degF; Use: REAMERS
Tempering Colour: LIGHT YELLOW; 440 degF; Use: LATHE TOOLS, SCRAPERS, MILLING CUTTERS, REAMERS
Tempering Colour: PALE STRAW YELLOW; 450 degF; Gas Mark 8; Use: TWIST DRILLS FOR HARD USE
Tempering Colour: STRAW YELLOW; 460 degF; Gas Mark 9; Use: DIES, PUNCHES, BITS, REAMERS
Tempering Colour: DEEP STRAW YELLOW; 470 degF;
Tempering Colour: DARK YELLOW; 480 degF; Use: TWIST DRILLS, LARGE TAPS
485 degF; Use: KNURLS
Tempering Colour: YELLOW BROWN; 490 degF;
Tempering Colour: BROWN YELLOW; 500 degF; Use: AXES, WOOD CHISELS, DRIFTS, TAPS >= 1/2", NUT TAPS, DIES
Tempering Colour: SPOTTED RED BROWN; 510 degF;
Tempering Colour: BROWN PURPLE; 520 degF; Use: TAPS <= 1/4"
Tempering Colour: LIGHT PURPLE; 530 degF;
Tempering Colour: FULL PURPLE; 540 degF; Use: COLD CHISELS, CENTER PUNCHES
Tempering Colour: DARK PURPLE; 550 degF;
Tempering Colour: FULL BLUE; 560 degF; Use: SCREWDRIVERS, SPRINGS, GEARS
Tempering Colour: DARK BLUE; 570 degF;
Tempering Colour: MEDIUM BLUE; 600 degF; Use: SCRAPERS, SPOKESHAVES


Regards

Richard

A qualification. Though it is indeed accurate that HSS tools, by definition, can withstand temperatures up to red heat, what is almost always overlooked is that they can be severely degraded not by the heat of grinding but by the quenching frequently applied during grinding after the tools get hot -- an operation completely absent from their operating enviroment (e.g. mounted on a lathe toolpost).

So, HSS tools can't be damaged by the heat of grinding (up to red heat) per se, but they can be damaged during the whole operation of using a grinder to shape and sharpen them.

--Daniel

True. Don't quench HSS.
When I grind HSS tools and my fingers get a bit warm, I tend to continue after putting on welding gloves.

Regards

Richard.

I use a similar technique when drilling my blank to add scrificial pieces on the ends.
Since they are cut on a table saw and have a flat side and are relatively square, I mark centers and put a dimple in the center with a punch.
I suspend the blank between the live center and the bit and raise the tool rest to the bottom of the blank.
The tool rest stops the blank from spinning as I advance the ram in the live center.