I really like to looks of CS modern pens, but they are so expensive. Are they really worth the price? Are they that much better than, say a Pelikan M800, which is cheaper than just about any CS model? I know people rave about how well they write, but $400? Too bad they don't make a more inexpensive model for people with regular jobs. Sigh.

Thanks.

Matt C

I think they're targeting people who don't want to be mistaken for people with regular jobs.

Doug

I have a regular white collar job, which earns me a gross (before tax) of around $90-95K a year. I have still managed to buy four CS pens - all different models.

If you want it badly enough, you can afford it.

It's a bad trend when customers feel compelled to disclose annual incomes that allow the "privilege" and/or to justify owning these pens.

Signed,
Someone who owns more than four CS pens

Try the Wellington. It sells for about the price of an M800.

My job has no "collars," and pays $5.00 an hour. I live in the sticks with no electricity, running water, etc. Didn't feed the kids for two weeks and used the money to buy my last CS.

I feed my kids CS!

I was thinking about modern CS compared to the vintage CS only a couple of days ago - I do think the modern CS has over priced its pens - consider that a vintage 58 can be had for a fraction of a modern 58 and it is likely to be of better quality after hearing of numerous QC issues with the modern pens.

I don't own any modern CS pens and am not likely to either, they lack innovation and creativity, being merely remakes of old models, some glitzed up with precious metals etc but nothing really new w.r.t. design.

I do own a few 58s and they are great pens, why pay a silly amount for a modern copy?

If CS were to design new models with innovative creativity I would consider parting with my hard earnt cash.

From a strict viewpoint, using the principles of marginal utility as a guide, my answer would have to be no. My new CS 100 unquestionably writes better than my Pelikan, but does it write so much better that I can rationally justify the difference in cost solely based on the amount of marginal utility gained? I don't think so.

But I didn't buy this pen based on utility alone. Pen acquisition is a hobby for me, and so the economic principles are not rationally applied in my case. As with most hobbies, great pleasure is found in the anticipation. For nearly three years, I read about the CS 100, looked for posts about the pen, watched E-Bay and the marketplace, emailed dealers, looked at every color combination, weighed the pros and cons of the filling systems, looked at all the bespoke options, etc. The culmination of three years of pleasure-filled anticipation was found in those moments when I slowly unpacked the pen from multiple layers of packaging and filled it with ink. I took great pleasure in the planning and expectation, and I can't fix a marginal utility cost to that pleasure.

...at least not a cost that can be understood by any one not of the pen persuasion. When I showed the pen to my Grandfather, he admired it properly, and then asked, "And how much did it cost?" The truth felt vulgar on my tongue. The bare economic detail does not represent itself well, because it does not account for the passion involved in the hobby.

Just my two cents... I have started saving for another, because the joy is in the preparation.

Apologies, but the reason I mentioned my personal income is to demonstrate that I'm not some hot shot earning $1,000 a day or anything like that. I'm just a regular middle management guy who works 37.5 hours a week and sits at a desk with a PC all day. If I offended anyone, I apologise.

Yep, and I guess you use pedal power to generate electricity for your PC!

The remark was not directed at you personally. It was an observation about CS -- i.e., the direction that it has decided to take and how it is going to be perceived by customers and potential customers alike in the long run (or perhaps in the here and now). I wasn't slagging the brand either; I was simply making an observation.

So no worries... No offense taken and certainly no apologies required -- at least not to me. However, condolences may be in order to the one who feeds CS pens to his kids.

Signed,
Someone who is a hot shot earning not $1K/day but $1K/hour (I'm joking, people)

Thanks for the replies. Of course I agree that if you want the pen bad enough, you can afford it, one way or other. I have enough pens in my collection worth much more than a handful of modern CS's.

Since I am much more into the function of a pen, before looks, I was really wondering if they are that much better a writing instrument than other similarly priced or cheaper pens out there. Not to knock these pens at all, they just seem a bit overpriced.

Of course this is largely subjective as well.

With my spending cap per pen at around $200, I guess I need to find a used one somewhere, or get a vintage pen. Even as I write this I realize the spending cap thing is a bit crazy, because according to that principle I could buy two pens at $200 each, but not one $400 pen.

Matt C

I think Fred's got it right. Passion often overrides utility. I don't need a lot of fountain pens, but I collect as many as I can afford to buy because I have a passion for: objects with a history (which is why I like vintage) and finely made instruments of all types. A well made object transcends the physical materials that go into for the user. You develop a relationship that becomes almost personal despite the inanimate qualities of the pen or other thing you have the passion for. People who don't have the passion don't understand it at all.

On the subject of cost, it's all relative what you spend. If you can afford to make the purchase, whether you have excess cash -- when money on hand exceeds your requirements to live what you feel to be a comfortable life (notice I didn't say rich) -- or save for days, weeks, months, or sometimes years to make the purchase then make the purchase and enjoy it. I don't begrudge people who can afford to spend more on their passion than I can spend on mine. I probably enjoy using my purchases just as much as they enjoy theirs. Again it's all relative. The bottom line is to enjoy what you have, keep dreaming for what you want, and make your dreams come true. We are blessed to live in a country where we can indulge our passion for fine writing iinstruments regardless of costs, as I would choose to use even my budget fountain pens over a high price RB or BP.

Just a thought.

My new Wellington arrived today.... it writes superbly, but not hugely better than my steel-nibbed, Binderised, Pelkan 200 which cost so much less.

But it does look beautiful and is a delight to handle..... how do you put a price on that?

Oh my gosh, I just ruined my new keyboard!

Hello Pen Executive,

I think I understand your good intentions, because you converted GBP into USD... The minimum income to "survive" in London is about 2300 GBP, where "survive" really means student accomodation. The US readers might weight a 90K USD income accordingly.

Luca

Congrats on finally receiving your Wellington! I remember your post about it... Glad to know it arrived and that you're finding it a delight to handle.


So long as it's not your Wellington...

I couldn't agree with you more. I actually live in a town 30 miles outside London, but even here my income and my wife's income, plus some substantial parental help, could only let us buy an old 'terraced' house house built in 1895. Terraced means attached to neighbouring houses. Even this small house is now worth around $570k in value! To have a nice detached house in south-east England you need $1M at least.

London makes New York or San Francisco look cheap.

Something to be borne in mind, is that in the UK that $400 translates to something like $600. I can afford to buy 'expensive' pens by buying mainly on ebay and trying not to get carried away and overbid.

I have 3 modern CSs, one is a Peppered White 100, a gift (and at about £300 my most expensive pen alongside and M800 and a couple of Duofolds) a Black 100 RB can't remember what it cost, but less than £50 and a Cherry Red Duro.

The pens look great, do they write better than an M800, in reality no, they write pretty well and they do tend to get more remarks than my Black M800. I like them because they look like classic pens and come in great colours, are they worth the money, I suppose the answer is they must be as people buy them, but I would baulk at paying retail for them.

Andy

If you wanted something that writes you could go for a different pen but if you want a CS then you've got to ask yourself if ti is worth it to you.

Kurt

Kurt is right. There isn't much point complaining about the high prices of Conway Stewart pens as long as their competitors (Pelikan, Waterman, Visconti, Delta, Aurora, Taccia, Bexley, Sailor, Pilot, Platinum) make equally nice pens at much lower prices. If money is a problem, forget about Conway Stewart, and buy from the competition. If, however, you have an obsessive desire to own a Conway Stewart, then you are clearly wanting to purchase something that, for you, is a luxury product. One of the characteristics of luxury products is the lack of a any correlation between manufacturing cost and sales price.

My,do you really get by on such a meager amount, when most make $45,000 or less.

You could look to the second market as the modern incarnation of Conway Stewart did make some more down scale pens originally when they started out Pre-Churchill. Or you could look to Vintage CS pens as they were made for people to use daily and have stood up well to time.


Kurt

Let's be honest folks, whether you buy a $500 Nelson or a "much cheaper" $300 M800, you are not buying it because of how well it writes. It better writes well, but that's not enough to buy one, is it? You can buy cheaper than $100 pens and have them worked on by a nibmeister to turn them into very good writers (if they weren't good out of the box). I can even point to <$100 pens with gold nibs. We buy such pens because, as the topic title says, "they are so beautiful" (in more than one way). There is no functional justification for such purchases.

We can play this game forever. Why buy a $1000 Divina when I can get the much cheaper Nelson? Why buy a $1500 Romanica when I can get a $1000 Divina? Going the other way, why buy a $300 M800 when I can get a slightly smaller M620 for $200 and change? I even have two Expert IIs that I got new for the incredible price of $19.95 each! They write very well, so why be crazy and buy other $200 & $300 pens? You know why!

Where I live this is only 30% above median earnings. I live in a country where everything is more expensive than in the USA (pens included, that's why I buy from Pam Braun).

By the way, someone doing my job in NYC would be earning $125,000 a year.

I agree. If you want good writer, you can buy a Pilot rollerball for a few dollars. Or even a disposable Pilot Varsity V4 fountain pen - this one writes almost as well as pens hundreds of times the price. Writing ability is not and never has been the determining factor in the price of a fountain pens. Aesthetics is the key factor.

Attempting to inject more humour into this thread, someone doing my job in London would have tax privileges and exemptions fit for a Queen.

Signed,
Someone who can afford to be cheeky

Here's an interesting salary comparison calculator (for US cities only -- sorry). Put in your current salary and location, and see what you would have to make to maintain the same standard of living in another city. Please use this before you move to Honolulu...

Doug

Oh, come off it PenExec, a lot of people who are in work in the UK earn only £10,000 per annum gross. That means they probably live on less than £170 ($340) per week. Many live on a LOT less. If you are on £45,000 ($90,000) per annum then you are rich. How much does your wife earn on top of that? Let's face it you are VERY well off and could probably afford a new CS pen every month. Maybe for you and some others owning a modern CS is a status symbol. Do you have a Jag as well, or two Jags? Need to change your name to Prescott if you do ...

P.S. For the benefit of some readers, John Prescott was deputy PM in the UK under Tony Bliar, and he was known as "Two Jags Prescott" - he had more money than sense too. He became a bit of a joke too when he was found out to be servicing his secretary as well as his two Jags. (Jaguar cars).

I earn £48,000 a year and I am far from rich!! My wife earns half my wages. So that makes £72,000 a year gross for the two of us. We have a big mortgage to pay, just like anyone else, though no kids. The minimum wage in the UK is £5.75 an hour, so do your math.

A senior family doctor in the UK earns £110,000 a year - now if I am rich that makes him Warren Buffett!!

Really? Do you work for the UN?

No, I am the UN...

Looks like my attempts at humour are failing to keep things in perspective. Spend what you can, spend what you want, but please don't lose sight of the fact that hobbies are meant to be fun.

Signed,
Someone who is leaving this thread now

I agree. I never meant this thread to become a focus of discussion about incomes.

But I think the point I am trying to make is that I don't believe Conway Stewart pens are so expensive when compared to other high end brands. CS - unlike long established brands like Parker, Pelikan, Sheaffer and Waterman - is not aiming across the whoole fountain pen market, but only at the top of the market. You can see this in their products.

"O'er lawyers' fingers, who straight dream on fees;"

Shakespeare - "Romeo and Juliet"


Mescoff

Hey Guys,

This community forum is to be a friendly environment and not about who is earning how much or how little in comparison to any index or country. It is not for us to judge how wealthy somebody is just because they quote an income figure.

The topic of this thread is about Conway Stewart, justification on price and comparison on writing performance. I have watched this thread with interest, but when the topic digresses to income, I feel I have to step in. Can we please keep this topic on track as personal negative remarks do not make for a fun and congenial environment.

Conway Stewart pens are not churned out in large quantities using machinery running 24/7. Each pen is made/assembled by hand on site. Conway Stewart purchases high quality resins and this is the reason why the pearlescent materials have great depth and shimmer. The cap bands and rings on the regular production pens are crafted from solid 18 carat gold or sterling silver. The nibs are also 18 carat solid gold and every new Conway Stewart pen is backed with a 100 year warranty.

The production process alone – using people and not machines -- along with making the pens in England is very costly. The UK has a very high tax rate and shipping is extremely expensive. For instance, it worked out to be less costly to send a pen from the US distributor to a customer in Spain than to send the pen from the UK!

I am travelling to the UK this Sunday for two weeks and hope to take pictures of the Conway Stewart factory as I feel sure this will be of interest to people in this forum.

Kind regards,

Mary Burke

So I have sent my pen, Churchill, for a sevice to England. It has been 5 weeks and counting. I am not sure how longer it would take to fix.. But am really interested in how they make their pens. Perhaps how they repair or service them as well..
Keep me posted on your experience..

Interesting post, however..

Peter Pen

So, the question is: Are Conway Stewart pens worth what they cost? The answer is: they are if you are willing to pay the price.

I stumbled into this hobby by accident almost three years ago when I was presented with a Waterman rollerball (Phileas) at an awards dinner from the company I work for. Interested to see what the pen was worth, I logged in to eBay to see what they sold for. I saw another pen I liked and thought 'Why not?' I now have close to 200 pens. (Solidly middle class, BTW)

I currently have 3 CS pens. My first is a Model 100 Levenger edition in Black Whirl. Next was a Model 58 set (FP, BP, and pencil) in Crimson Blush. The last is a Wellington in Classic Green. I've got a Nelson in Crimson Whirl on order. I have an eclectic mix of brands including Pelikan, Aurora, Cross, Waterman, Parker, S.T. Dupont and others. Some are all metal, some are resin, some are lacquered, some are plastic, etc. I've bought pens for less than $25 and one pen (a Dani Trio with Urushi) for over $700. I buy pens because they appeal to me aesthetically. Some of them are beautiful, some are really good writers, and some are a real pleasure to hold.

Does a CS write better than other pens? Are there pens that write better than a CS? Absolutely! But, so far, none of my pens combine good performance, stunning appearance, and tactile pleasure as well as my CS pens. Are all CS pens created equal? In my opinion, no. I much prefer writing with and looking at my Wellington over the 100 and prefer the 100 over the 58. I think that's mostly because I prefer a pen with a little heft.

To me, whether a pen is worth the asking price is a personal thing. If you ask my wife, she'd tell you they are all overpriced. She prefers a Pentel with a rubber section. (go figure) I've purchased pens at what I considered extremely good prices that someone else would think were exorbitant. I've got a buddy at work that collects coins. He once paid almost $1000 for a penny! Would I do that? Not on your life! But, to him, it was a worthwhile purchase and even though he's been offered more to sell it, he's hanging on to it.

So, if you want a CS and can afford it...buy it. If you decide you don't like it, you can always sell it. CS pens have remarkable resell value. That's what tells me it's a valuable item.

Hold on there! Let's stay with fountain pens

Thanks for getting us back on topic, Mary.

Besides, for those who want to engage in sweeping generalizations and want to have a pissing contest about income levels, there's another thread in the Chatter section that is sure to please!

Well, I am a grad student with a small wallet but even I can afford a Conway Stewart pen. Maybe not a new one every month... Yeah, believe it or not! We are wallowing in our luxury pen addiction while there are quite a few people in this world who really cannot afford a Conway Stewart pen save anything else that smacks of luxury.
Having said this, I am not interested in reading about the levels of income of fellow FPNers. Nope, not interested at all. Silence is golden in that respect!

By the by, I must say that my CS pen (Duro resin) warrants the money. It is a beautiful and functional pen. If that means keeping some skilled English craftsmen at work, I have no regrets having paid the money.

Well said!

And I think the Conway Stewart Doctors pen is my new lust icon.

Where do i have to go to enter this contest? Is it based on number of times, volume, colour or what? and what do I win?

The public has a right to know!

There's quite a number of CS pens out there -- modern or vintage -- at reasonably affordable prices. I got a NOS Dandy at a price I could live with.

I haven't had one of those since I was 11!

I know - I know – I know; the pot calls the kettle black. I suspected that you may catch this; but was still unable to exercise sufficient restraint over myself. I admittedly "just lost it," and finally gave way to the undeniable temptation of instantaneous gratification.

My own dogs are now barking at me: the female even tried to bite!

I have therefore decided to suspend myself from this board for three days as punishment and willingly surrender for immediate purging and purification on the rack.

Mescoff

p.s. My new Wellington just arrived for the second time; I have the box in hand..

Oh, I checked with my Urologist and the proposed contest would not be fair due to the fact that I have only one kidney. I have three times the normal pressure and a range of between 7 and 10 meters.

I also like the CS line but cannot explain why beyond their conservative styling (Dandy, 58, and Duro) appeal to me. I am attracted to the vintage look that's achieved in both construction and available resin patterns **and** not having to contend with inconvenience of replacing silicone sacs every few years or so (although I own several of these pens as well).

Since I buy 'em (CS), I imagine that would indicate that the "ownership desire/perceived value > item's cost".

Regards,

Paul

This is a strange thread. If CS is considered 'expensive', then what about David Oscarson, whose pens - even at a sale discount - retail at no less than $3,600!

I actually think CS pens are cheap when compared to similar brands like MB, Omas, Perchin and Oscarson.