Anybody here know what kind of ink works on signing photographs?

I be thinking if they can be signed with a fountain pen.

Thanks

Since most celebrities use a Sharpie® and it can write on anything then I guess one would need a fountain pen that could do the same. Nathan has a 100+ year old pen filled with a alcohol-based prototype ink that can write on glass, plastic, and metal. It would be cool to see a celebrity autograph a picture with a fountain pen.

I think you might be able to use most inks, since up until the advent of Ballpoints there were only fountain pens. It might be a funtion of drying time and experimenting with blotting paper.


kurt H

My experience says that water-based ink found in rollerballs wipes of glossy surfaces in one swipe.

Ballpoints were in use before I was born, so I don't know about celebrity autographs in the fountain pen days. Hey, I just had a thought. I remember seeing books 4" x 7" that said "Autographs" on the front. Maybe celebs didn't autograph their glossies.

How do photographers sign photos? That's what I really need to know. I was just hoping, with my fetish, I could use my fountain pens.

I was wondering if anybody would recommend Noodlers waterproof...

Hi t-l,

I think most photographers sign their photographs with developer, on the edge or rim, or with the fixing salt solution. I've done writings like this on photographs (photographic paper) in the past .

It'll be as permanent as the photograph itself. Of course I am not talking digital photographs here

Some use permanent markers, but they tend to be semi-permanent at best .

Other than that, Noodler's waterproof should be fine.

Warm regards, Wim

It depends on the substrate.

Until 1960-something, all photos were on fiber/fibre-based paper. Literally "paper", with the emulsion on top. Liquids easily penetrate the emulsion, and marking - or signing - with a FP wasn't a problem, unless the print was lacquered, as was (very) occasionally done.

Today, all colour "papers" and most B&W "papers" are actually emulsion coated onto a polyester resin substrate. It's cheaper, and it dries quicker. There are still fibre-based (FB) papers out there for B&W, but they're uncommon, except in certain fine-art disciplines, like platinum or lith prints, or large-format contact prints on printing-out paper... but I digress.

I sign most of my prints on the reverse, with a permenant silver marker I got from an art-supply place, made by some Japanese company... Sakura? I'd have to go find it and check. It's archival, and unlikely to fade, being on the back of the print... Most photographers use something similar, or just a Sharpie™. I've used a Sharpie™ in the past, and probably will again. I've signed and written on fiber-based B&W prints, both on the obverse (in the border) and reverse, with various FP inks (Skrip/Noodlers/Private Reserve) and had no problems. I haven't tried Noodler's permenant black on a resin paper, but I expect it would wash off, as it was designed to do on plastic.

One of the benefits of a Sharpie™ is it's extreme lightfastness. A fair number of FP inks are anything but lightfast, and I imagine would fade pretty damned quickly under display conditions...

For what it's worth, I believe that, historically, a lot of photos were signed with white grease pencils or laundry pencils, so the signiature would show up on the B&W photo.

I'm going to sacrifice a print of a blank-wall shot I took to advance the film (that's how I often start a roll -- with a couple random advances; better safe than sorry when the real photos begin) and see how it is with my available writing instruments. Sadly, the only fountain pen ink I have is black Quink, but that'll stand in well for all generic low-saturation nonsecurity inks. Following is my stream of consciousness during the late-night experiment.

The method will be a capital J rendered on the Kodak glossy print with each instrument -- a Parker Reflex medium with a black cartridge, a red Sakura Gelly Roll, a Bic permanent marker (shaped like a PFM, for what it's worth -- the shape has Sheaffer heritage for sure), a PhD ballpoint, and a Uni-Ball Vision Exact. I tried a .5 pencil but it didn't work.

Preliminary conclusions: The pencil of course didn't work. The regular ballpoint did not work effectively -- doesn't show well. Before I try to smudge, the smoothest line is from the rollerball, though the Gelly Roll did well also. The fountain pen is a bit weak looking, but not like the BP.


Drywipe with paper towel results:
Parker Quink unchanged, slight smearing with repeated contact. Sakura Gelly Roll loses color, leaving a somewhat silvery signature that I rather like, in fact. I think the BP got even weaker than it was. Alas, the Uni-Ball smeared far worse than the Quink-loaded Parker. I'd have to say the Sharpie is the hero here.

Now I thumb it. Quink smears poorly here -- moisture from skin is my suspect, since the dry paper towel didn't do much to it. Noodlers Black would definitely be worth a try, for those who have some right now. No change from the already silverish Gelly Roll; the ballpoint stays lame and the permanent marker lives up to its name. The RB and the FP both refuse to smear any more after a point -- so I am going to try a whole FP signature and see how it holds up after being let to dry. I'll do a Gelly Roll sig also, since I like how it turns out.

Signatures:
The FP wasn't handling well for this -- I really don't like how it came out, rather choppy and a bit bumpy; I tried again, and it came out somewhat better. It probably takes some experimentation to get it right; if you let it set up (longer than it takes for paper), Quink doesn't even seem to smear underhand. Hopefully not harming my nib any, at least I'm using an inexpensive modern. The Gelly Roll wipeoff still is nice.

My conclusions on the capabilities of the pens are thus:
Permanent marker: More or less good on the photograph. No smear, solid line. There's a reason tha Sharpies are a favorite with celebrities. This is the king.
Ballpoint: Forget about it. Doesn't come out very well.
Rollerball: Though smoother than a fountain pen, it doesn't set up very well, at least the Uniball I have.
Fountain pen (Parker Reflex, black Quink): Somewhat difficult to sign the photo with, but at least the ink sets up.
Gelly Roll: Evidently, this gel pen does the trick well. The color comes off when wiped with a paper towel, but I actually think it shows up better that way, and doesn't smear or anything. I'd dare suggest that those signing photos with a Gelly Roll go ahead and wipe the color out of the signature on purpose; the silverish effect makes a good signature.


So I'd say go for the Sharpie if you want to go easy on yourself and always get ink on the photograph, though you can do interesting things with a Sakura gel pen and fountain pen ink will go ahead and set up (though I have no idea what a lot of photo signings would do to a nib, and if it would be good for it).

(If anyone wants scans of the final effects, let me know. For intermediate steps, if a scan is wanted, I'll be glad to reproduce on another null print from the same roll. I'll probably demonstrate the Gelly Roll effect on this thread tomorrow at any rate.)

No kidding, Maja, take a look:


If that's not inspired by the PFM and the Imperial, I don't know what is. Compare the above to the PenHero.com profile photographs of the PFM at http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer/SheafferPFM.htm and it becomes more obvious yet


I think I ought to find myself an actual Imperial or PFM one of these days -- perhaps a local antique store has one?

My goodness! What an oddly shaped pen...
And some people think the Rotring Core is ugly?

As for Imperials and PFMs, you can try looking in antique stores, sure. Chances are you are more likely to find an Imperial than an PFM, though, but you never know....

I have no idea what technology is behind the photos I will be signing (and no, I am not a celebrity) but I did fail to mention that the print is digital. It is produced on a bigger-than-a-breadbox photo machine and does an excellent job. I should probably be asking this in a photo forum, but I knew the knowledgeable folk here would no more than they "should" about such matters.

Thanks.

I usually prefer Sanford Sharpies for my permanent marker needs, but this one came free with a utility lighter. Its black ink is rather more purple than that from a Sharpie, also; I won't be buying any more of them, even if they do have a vaguely Sheaffer-like shape

Antique stores are always fun in a myriad of ways -- though one does have to watch out for overpriced reproductions and substitutions before handing over any significant amount of cash.

I have worked in a commercial photo studio and have sold black and white darkroom prints in galleries. Photographic prints made in a darkroom are printed on paper coated with gelatin. The fiber based papers someone mentioned above have a clay coating between the paper and the gelatin and the resin coated papers (all color papers since I first started photographing seriously in the 1970's and most black and white papers used by commercial labs also since the 1970's or so) have a plastic coating on both sides of the paper, also below the gelatin. There are few inks that stick well to this gelatin coating. I just tried some Noodlers black on the front of a resin coated paper and a fiber based paper. The Noodlers didn't stick at all to the fiber based print and left a very faint mark. The resin coated paper seemed to take the ink perfectly. However, after letting both papers dry, the ink could be completely wiped off the fiber based print with my finger leaving no trace of the ink. The RC paper smeared so much that the words could not be read, but the ink couldn't be removed completely (I didn't try washing the print again, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would wash away, the plastic coating underneath the emulsion should prevent contact with the actual paper so it can't do it's magic reaction thing).

In fine art, black and white prints are almost always still printed on fiber based papers and are generally either signed on the back of the print in pencil or dry mounted to mat board and signed in pencil on the mat below the print. Color prints may be handled the same way. Most resin coated papers are textured on the back to take pencil fairly well. I have seen prints (both black and white or color) signed on the print itself using a gold or silver metallic ink (I don't know what the technology is used in this ink) or using a waterproof india ink with a Rapidograph pen (I suppose you could use a dip nib pen as well). You can use a pen like a sharpie, but this ink isn't very archival and can fade or change color over a fairly short time (several years).

Digital prints are totally different technology (there are some digital printers that use LEDs or lasers to create the image on regular photographic paper). If they are glossy prints, there is some gelatin used to make the surface shiny which may have some of the same problems as darkroom prints. If the digital process uses ink (as in inkjet printers), the paper must accept ink. I tried Noodlers black on several digital inkjet papers I had and the ink seemed to work ok and doesn't seem to smear after drying (but I wouldn't count on it being waterproof on these papers, many use a resin coating similar to photographic papers and in any event, few inkjet printers put out a truely waterproof image anyway).

If I were signing photographs, my first choice would use a farily soft pencil on the back of the print if that is acceptable. Otherwise, I'd use something like india ink in a Rapidograph or maybe a dip pen. I would only use a Sharpie or similar pen if the signature didn't need to last more than a few years.

John

When I read the title of this post, I thought to myself, "Now there's something most of us don't have to be concerned about." Upon reading the post, I'm surprised how many FPNers actually have to sign photos. I assume this means you're famous? Please, share with the rest of us who never ever have to worry about such things.

I use either a sharpie or a metallic paint pen. Typically I use the Silver but it also depends on the print. You do not want to make your signature a distraction to the viewer. Generally I use silver for B/W prints and black for color prints. The Metallic paint pen does not bead and unfortunately it take a while to dry. When it dries, it does not come off easily at all!!! Also another good place is to put your signature and date is on the matte. Pencil works well on the matte but I always sign my prints too. It depends on how the picture is framed, the matte can hide your signature on the print, so when that happens, thats when I use a pencil on the matte its self.

The prints I use for my job, I have to fill out a non classified label and paste it to the back of the photo. This gives the customer limited use of the photos and I also label it as print one out of 100 for example. The label cannot be removed without destroying the print. As for the information I have to write on the label, I use Noodlers Black due to its fraud and water proof properties. Unfortunately I am only limited to either blue or black ink, typical Government policy.

TNS